165gr or 180gr - 300wsm ??

[Mountain Guy]

Howdy.
Anybody with any experience hand loading 165gr's for a 300wsm ?
I know 180's are proven performers , but am considering trying 165gr. Hornady Interbonds as an all around bullet.
Thinking they may shot a little flatter although I believe that the 180's have a better B.C.
Also , anyone know of a good site where I can compare ballistic's ?

Thanks.
M.G.

[Scott N]

Hornady's site has a ballistics calculator:

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/ba...calculator.php

[sbtennex]

The higher BC of the 180 will allow it to "catch up" at long distances. The .30 mags shine by their ability to launch heavier stuff than smaller or less powder capacity calibers. Use the ability to do so - the insignificant difference is trajectory is more than made up for by the heavier bullet's higher SD and retained energy. Speed ain't everything. Want to shoot 160-165's? Use an '06 or .308 or any of the 7's. Find a real accurate load for your 180's and use it for everything. (I know - here comes the Barnes hoard to tell you to use 150's at the speed of light. I do it too, but when it comes to getting serious I go back to 180 Accubonds in the .300 WM).

[Mountain Guy]

Thanks.
Also considering recoil.
Would there be a noticeable difference between the 2 loads ?

[Dick284]

I shoot the 165gr. IB's in my 300WSM.
I tried 3 powders in load development.
IMR 4350
IMR 4831
H 4350
All of the powders gave good results, the H 4350 won out as my choice because it shot a hair tighter groups, and was one grain less in charge weight than its IMR cousin for the same 3130fps.
Good luck.
FWIW: I've never recovered a single IB from the half dozen or so critters I've shot with the combo, all of them died in a prescribed manner to suggest reliable bullet perfomance.

For free ballistics software try here:
http://www.huntingnut.com/ (point blank ballistics RHS, 1/3 down)

A quick side by side between similar bullets in both 165 and 180 shows this:

Starting a 165 IB @ 3130 and 2.5" high @ 100
-2.5"@300 (2300ftlbs)
-13"@400 (1960ftlbs)
-30"@500 (1664ftlbs)


A 180 IB@ 3000fps same 2.5"@100
-3.5"@ 300 (2360ftlbs)
-15"@400 (2030ftlbs)
-33"@500 (1740ftlbs)

In the real world there is'nt but a hill of beans diffrence in the two loadings

Choose what ever shoots best in your rifle, you'll never notice the recoil diffrence anyways.

[Bobby B.]

I'm adding a different perspective to this question. My premise is very simple, fit the cartridge/bullet combo to the game. A 300wsm is way overkill on deer, either species, regardless of range. More to the point, a 300wsm is not intended as a deer cartridge, more like elk and moose, or big bears or even African DG. And at longer than normal ranges. To load a 300wsm with 165 for deer presupposes one does not own a rifle chambered for a more suitable deer cartridge.

Of course one can shoot, and kill, deer with the 300wsm and either the 165 or 180 grain bullet will do it. No doubt either will drop a rabbit or gopher in its tracks as well. But is it suited to deer sized game...NO. Too much gun.

A pickup truck with 200hp will take you and your buddy to any hunting spot of interest. So will a 300hp or a 400hp or a 500hp. But what's gained by all the hp over the 200hp mark. Well, you might have to pass a Ferrari 430 going up a hill. Or you might need to ....whatever. But, do you? Will you? My own car weighs in at 2222 lbs and the engine produces 448.9hp on the dyno. Hellofalotacar to go to the store to pick up a bottle of wine. But let this bitch loose on the road and see what will keep up.

The question is, is more really better? Better for what? Sometimes less is better. A 378 weatherby has the energy to kill deer out to....well, a long, long ways. So what? Who needs all that energy to kill a deer? They're not all that difficult to kill. A 25-06 is on the upper end of what's needed for deer. The 270 winchester is wasted HP as is the 7RM, the 7RUM, the 460 weatherby and the 30-06.

If you can own only one rifle, and therefore only one cartridge, and you want it to cover the complete spectrum of huntable game in Alberta, well, the 300wsm is a good choice. In some ways. The difference between the 165 and 180 grain bullet in the 300wsm is conversational, at best.

You want to kill a great trophy? The rifle/cartridge/bullet factor is the least important factor. The most is finding the trophy to shoot. And killing it. Dead. Where you can find it. Quickly.

Bobby B.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by Dick284

I shoot the 165gr. IB's in my 300WSM.
I tried 3 powders in load development.
IMR 4350
IMR 4831
H 4350
All of the powders gave good results, the H 4350 won out as my choice because it shot a hair tighter groups, and was one grain less in charge weight than its IMR cousin for the same 3130fps.
Good luck.
FWIW: I've never recovered a single IB from the half dozen or so critters I've shot with the combo, all of them died in a prescribed manner to suggest reliable bullet perfomance.

For free ballistics software try here:
http://www.huntingnut.com/ (point blank ballistics RHS, 1/3 down)

A quick side by side between similar bullets in both 165 and 180 shows this:

Starting a 165 IB @ 3130 and 2.5" high @ 100
-2.5"@300 (2300ftlbs)
-13"@400 (1960ftlbs)
-30"@500 (1664ftlbs)


A 180 IB@ 3000fps same 2.5"@100
-3.5"@ 300 (2360ftlbs)
-15"@400 (2030ftlbs)
-33"@500 (1740ftlbs)

In the real world there is'nt but a hill of beans diffrence in the two loadings

Choose what ever shoots best in your rifle, you'll never notice the recoil diffrence anyways.

Great info Dick !
Thanks muchly...
For your application , it looks to me that the 165's would be the way to go.
I'm assuming though , that you've gone with the 165's because of better accuracy outta your rifle. Not to mention that , with the spec's you've shown the 165's out perform the 180's. Minimal energy difference with significantly better trajectory.
Not trying to sound lazy , but I live in a location where I have to drive a 100km to get to the range , so I'm trying to short list some good starting loads before I go shoot.
Dick , what was your starting and finishing charge ?
Oh.... I'm shooting a Sako Finnlight FWIW.

Thanks.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

I'm adding a different perspective to this question. My premise is very simple, fit the cartridge/bullet combo to the game. A 300wsm is way overkill on deer, either species, regardless of range. More to the point, a 300wsm is not intended as a deer cartridge, more like elk and moose, or big bears or even African DG. And at longer than normal ranges. To load a 300wsm with 165 for deer presupposes one does not own a rifle chambered for a more suitable deer cartridge.

Of course one can shoot, and kill, deer with the 300wsm and either the 165 or 180 grain bullet will do it. No doubt either will drop a rabbit or gopher in its tracks as well. But is it suited to deer sized game...NO. Too much gun.

A pickup truck with 200hp will take you and your buddy to any hunting spot of interest. So will a 300hp or a 400hp or a 500hp. But what's gained by all the hp over the 200hp mark. Well, you might have to pass a Ferrari 430 going up a hill. Or you might need to ....whatever. But, do you? Will you? My own car weighs in at 2222 lbs and the engine produces 448.9hp on the dyno. Hellofalotacar to go to the store to pick up a bottle of wine. But let this bitch loose on the road and see what will keep up.

The question is, is more really better? Better for what? Sometimes less is better. A 378 weatherby has the energy to kill deer out to....well, a long, long ways. So what? Who needs all that energy to kill a deer? They're not all that difficult to kill. A 25-06 is on the upper end of what's needed for deer. The 270 winchester is wasted HP as is the 7RM, the 7RUM, the 460 weatherby and the 30-06.

If you can own only one rifle, and therefore only one cartridge, and you want it to cover the complete spectrum of huntable game in Alberta, well, the 300wsm is a good choice. In some ways. The difference between the 165 and 180 grain bullet in the 300wsm is conversational, at best.

You want to kill a great trophy? The rifle/cartridge/bullet factor is the least important factor. The most is finding the trophy to shoot. And killing it. Dead. Where you can find it. Quickly.

Bobby B.

Well put Bobby B.
I do agree with all your points.
My position : I do probably 50% moose / elk , 50% deer .
I've always been a 1 gun guy , so I think better to be heavy on the deer than light on the moose / elk.
I like short action , and I like the versatility of a .30 bullet . And I like the ballistic's of the 300wsm much more than a 308.
I've had a 300wsm for a few years now and have taken everything from big bull moose to small 'eater'' w.t.'s . All with 180gr. accubond factory loads.
Is it overkill for the little eaters.....absolutely..... did it cause ''excess'' damage.... I don't think so.
Now...with time to do some handloading ( don't tell my wife..) I'm thinking of going with 165 gr's as a potentially better ''all round'' bullet.
I'm riding the fence between 165's and 180's , and for simplicity I'm doing one or the other.
Just want to feel out the experts to sway me one way or the other

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Great info Dick !
Thanks muchly...
For your application , it looks to me that the 165's would be the way to go.
I'm assuming though , that you've gone with the 165's because of better accuracy outta your rifle. Not to mention that , with the spec's you've shown the 165's out perform the 180's. Minimal energy difference with significantly better trajectory.
Not trying to sound lazy , but I live in a location where I have to drive a 100km to get to the range , so I'm trying to short list some good starting loads before I go shoot.
Dick , what was your starting and finishing charge ?
Oh.... I'm shooting a Sako Finnlight FWIW.

Thanks.

If you ever have noticed I seldom provide specific load data on these pages. Not because I cant or I wont, but simply because I feel that research and load development enhances ones ability to better understand what makes things tick in the shooting world.
Suprisingly there is not that much difference in reloading data for the 300WSM. pick a middle of the road load and work up in half grain incriments.
FWIW: I stopped at 66.5gr. of H4350, and that's with a CCI 250 primer. My rifle is a Savage Model 11 (24" bbl).

I highly suggest you follow the above recommendation about load development.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

I'm adding a different perspective to this question. My premise is very simple, fit the cartridge/bullet combo to the game. A 300wsm is way overkill on deer, either species, regardless of range. More to the point, a 300wsm is not intended as a deer cartridge, more like elk and moose, or big bears or even African DG. And at longer than normal ranges. To load a 300wsm with 165 for deer presupposes one does not own a rifle chambered for a more suitable deer cartridge.

Of course one can shoot, and kill, deer with the 300wsm and either the 165 or 180 grain bullet will do it. No doubt either will drop a rabbit or gopher in its tracks as well. But is it suited to deer sized game...NO. Too much gun.

A pickup truck with 200hp will take you and your buddy to any hunting spot of interest. So will a 300hp or a 400hp or a 500hp. But what's gained by all the hp over the 200hp mark. Well, you might have to pass a Ferrari 430 going up a hill. Or you might need to ....whatever. But, do you? Will you? My own car weighs in at 2222 lbs and the engine produces 448.9hp on the dyno. Hellofalotacar to go to the store to pick up a bottle of wine. But let this bitch loose on the road and see what will keep up.

The question is, is more really better? Better for what? Sometimes less is better. A 378 weatherby has the energy to kill deer out to....well, a long, long ways. So what? Who needs all that energy to kill a deer? They're not all that difficult to kill. A 25-06 is on the upper end of what's needed for deer. The 270 winchester is wasted HP as is the 7RM, the 7RUM, the 460 weatherby and the 30-06.

If you can own only one rifle, and therefore only one cartridge, and you want it to cover the complete spectrum of huntable game in Alberta, well, the 300wsm is a good choice. In some ways. The difference between the 165 and 180 grain bullet in the 300wsm is conversational, at best.

You want to kill a great trophy? The rifle/cartridge/bullet factor is the least important factor. The most is finding the trophy to shoot. And killing it. Dead. Where you can find it. Quickly.

Bobby B.

More is always better!!

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by Dick284

If you ever have noticed I seldom provide specific load data on these pages. Not because I cant or I wont, but simply because I feel that research and load development enhances ones ability to better understand what makes things tick in the shooting world.
Suprisingly there is not that much difference in reloading data for the 300WSM. pick a middle of the road load and work up in half grain incriments.
FWIW: I stopped at 66.5gr. of H4350, and that's with a CCI 250 primer. My rifle is a Savage Model 11 (24" bbl).

I highly suggest you follow the above recommendation about load development.

Understand...
I would never hold anyone accountable for trying to help.
Just looking for a kick start to heat up the new barrel.

Thanks again.

[Bobby B.]

rugatika,

In that case, I do wish you more in debt everyday.

Bobby B.

[twilson_99]

Out of my browning abolt chambered in 300 win mag I've shot 168gr vmax and after trying multiple loads I got my best groups just under and inch at 100 yards. Loaded 180gr interlocks and got my group down to a half inch. Really I've killed deer, and elk with my 243, all it takes is finding the right load for your gun, be comfortable with how it shoots, and know where it shoots and you'll drop everything right in it's tracks!

[laker]

What did you kill that buck with last fall? 165gr or 180gr? Do you think he really cared? He's dead!!
Go 180 and stick with it. That bullet is made for 300's...
If you want to shoot 165's sell that rig and by a 303

[Donny Bear]

Go for it My 300 wsm and my sons were both very happy with 180s but I have worked up a load for 155s that just rocks I have a reduced Varget load that is a confirmed .500 my sons T3 lite and a smokin load for my Wicnester Coyote light / Alberta Tactical rifle that drives tacks I will be trying the Berger VLDs recommended for game this week and hope for as good of results as the Nosler 155 Match.

[Dark Wing]

I prefer the 180's in bear country.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by laker

What did you kill that buck with last fall? 165gr or 180gr? Do you think he really cared? He's dead!!
Go 180 and stick with it. That bullet is made for 300's...
If you want to shoot 165's sell that rig and by a 303

303...hmmmm , I think 30-30 instead.

Shouldn't you be goose huntin or somethin'

[sbtennex]

Originally Posted by Bobby B.

A 300wsm is way overkill on deer, either species, regardless of range. More to the point, a 300wsm is not intended as a deer cartridge, more like elk and moose, or big bears or even African DG. And at longer than normal ranges. To load a 300wsm with 165 for deer presupposes one does not own a rifle chambered for a more suitable deer cartridge.
Bobby B.

Sorry, I don't buy it. I'm not a super-mag for everything guy, but IMO even the .338 Win Mag is perfectly suitable for deer with the right load assuming you can handle it. The .300WSM is anything but overkill - it very nearly does what the .300 Win Mag does so well - sends bullets at extreme ranges with enough accuracy and enough punch to accomplish what any shot at any animal should do - kill quickly, not "barely". The .300WSM was designed for just that, but was most certainly NOT designed with African dangerous game in mind. Most guides and outfitters for the biggest bears prefer to see something with a little more frontal area than a .30, any .30. For backup, you should see what they carry. If I were to set out to build myself a LONG range deer gun, I'd probably start with a .300 Weatherby and start loading up premium sleek 165's about as hot and as accurate as the gun and I could handle, but for the time being I'm stuck with my .300 Win Mag. Ask the big magnum guys about meat damage when they use the right bullet - they usually can eat the thing right up to the bullet holes, and there probably will be 2 of them.

[martinbns]

When I had one I was shooting 168gr TSX's over H4350, very accurate, very hard hitting.

[MODEL70]

Ah yes the age old argument that will never end.but nobody talks about shot placment.a 22 will kill a dear if shot in the right spot heck it will kill a bear.it doesnt matter what caliber you shoot get comfortable shooting it.you will always have people like myself that have one gun for everything.i chose a 300 wsm 180 grain accubond.i took my muledeer doe at well over 400 yards last year.was it the gun? Maybe a bit.but i was confident in myself that i could make the shot.i will not pull the trigger on a maybe shot.i have thought about going with the lighter bullet i would be glad to hear how they work for you.

[Mountain Guy]

I've decided to go 180gr. Hornady interbonds.
I have some Reloder 22 and H4831 powders on hand.
I think the B.C. is very close between the interbonds and the accubonds.
Anybody have a good load with the above powders they would be willing to share ?
I don't have a Hornady manual and I'm 4 hrs away from the closest one.

Thanks