Mule Deer Allocations

[sns2]

Originally Posted by albertadave

easy answer. No more outfitting on private land. It’s been suggested here many times.

100%

[sns2]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

Yet every season multiple outfitters get charged and have to pay fines. Seems like a pretty big risk they’re taking if “they’re barely making it”?
If outfitting is not profitable, how do many of them stay in business after paying the fines?
Some outfits have been charged and paid fines more than once too….

Indeed. Google Lloyd McMahon.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Outfitter makes money and will do what ever it takes to fill clients tag.

Resident convictions outnumber Outfitter convictions 500 to 1 every year. It would appear plenty of residents feel they need to cheat also.

And while I agree the 1-2% of the law breaking outfitters need to go, I wouldn’t be so quick to overlook the 1-2% of law breaking residents simply because money isn’t their primary motivation.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Resident convictions outnumber Outfitter convictions 500 to 1 every year. It would appear plenty of residents feel they need to cheat also.

And while I agree the 1-2% of the law breaking outfitters need to go, I wouldn’t be so quick to overlook the 1-2% of law breaking residents simply because money isn’t their primary motivation.

Comparing apples to oranges! How many residents to how many outfitters?

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You haven’t obviously been on many guided hunts

Some don’t need to have their hand held to shoot a Bighorn. Some do it the old fashioned way, lots of hard work!

[Smoky buck]

I have crossed paths with plenty of crooked resident hunters and this is why I am often reluctant to hunt with hunters I don’t know well. I have actually had better luck teaching rookies so they learn ethics

What is the motivation some are just lazy, some actually suck at hunting so they are easily tempted, and others are so caught up about showing off they will do anything for trophy animals

Let’s be honest here there is idiots in all walks of life

Now I have also met scum outfitters that will cheat because of the pressure to have clients fill a tag. Truth of the matter is theses guys usually started as resident hunters that were poachers

I have also met completely stand up guys who were outfitters and same goes for resident hunters

Let’s cut the crap and be honest there is good and bad in both camps

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Some don’t need to have their hand held to shoot a Bighorn. Some do it the old fashioned way, lots of hard work!

lol The alberta bighorn hunt requires the least amount of skill and the highest amount of luck

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by sns2

Indeed. Google Lloyd McMahon.

Yup, that's exactly who I was thinking about......

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

Comparing apples to oranges! How many residents to how many outfitters?

I would venture a guess if we extrapolated the data on percentages it would be fairly close.

So not apples to orange no. More like one tree has more apples so more fall in comparison to the tree next to it.

The biggest difference is people tend to ignore the one tree for some reason, yet want to burn the other tree down. I’m guessing the main reason being jealousy but that’s probably best left out

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I have crossed paths with plenty of crooked resident hunters and this is why I am often reluctant to hunt with hunters I don’t know well. I have actually had better luck teaching rookies so they learn ethics

What is the motivation some are just lazy, some actually suck at hunting so they are easily tempted, and others are so caught up about showing off they will do anything for trophy animals

Let’s be honest here there is idiots in all walks of life

Now I have also met scum outfitters that will cheat because of the pressure to have clients fill a tag. Truth of the matter is theses guys usually started as resident hunters that were poachers

I have also met completely stand up guys who were outfitters and same goes for resident hunters

Let’s cut the crap and be honest there is good and bad in both camps

Rational and logical thinking all in one post ! Perfectly said

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Rational and logical thinking all in one post ! Perfectly said

X2

The hate for outfitters is strong on this forum....

[huntwat]

Back to the original post.
Outfitter tags are way above the allotted 10% in a lot of areas.
When the govt has to adjust tag numbers in wmu’s they can’t adjust outfitter tags at the same time. This has to change. This is what is causing the problem.
IMHO. Nonres tags should not be given for any antlered or horned species that requires a draw for residents. That would solve a lot of problems.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Back to the original post.
Outfitter tags are way above the allotted 10% in a lot of areas.
When the govt has to adjust tag numbers in wmu’s they can’t adjust outfitter tags at the same time. This has to change. This is what is causing the problem.
IMHO. Nonres tags should not be given for any antlered or horned species that requires a draw for residents. That would solve a lot of problems.

So don’t beat around the bush. Simply put you want a Saskatchewan style system that any species on draw is resident only

You would prefer maximum resident priority and there are others who share your views and that is fine

[Outcast]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

lol The alberta bighorn hunt requires the least amount of skill and the highest amount of luck

That’s a bold statement.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Outcast

That’s a bold statement.

You Need to be lucky that any mature ram you find is legal and not broomed short
No skill involved in that

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I have crossed paths with plenty of crooked resident hunters and this is why I am often reluctant to hunt with hunters I don’t know well. I have actually had better luck teaching rookies so they learn ethics

What is the motivation some are just lazy, some actually suck at hunting so they are easily tempted, and others are so caught up about showing off they will do anything for trophy animals

Let’s be honest here there is idiots in all walks of life

Now I have also met scum outfitters that will cheat because of the pressure to have clients fill a tag. Truth of the matter is theses guys usually started as resident hunters that were poachers

I have also met completely stand up guys who were outfitters and same goes for resident hunters

Let’s cut the crap and be honest there is good and bad in both camps

Been saying this for years on this anti outfitting forum.

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You Need to be lucky that any mature ram you find is legal and not broomed short
No skill involved in that

That pretty much sums up every sheep hunt I've ever been on in AB or BC (stones or bighorn) though no one ever accused me of having much skill anyways....lol

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

You Need to be lucky that any mature ram you find is legal and not broomed short
No skill involved in that

I'm honestly curious, and I'm making zero assumptions...How many Alberta bighorn hunts have you been on without a guide?

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

X2

The hate for outfitters is strong on this forum....

And with many landowners. I’ve received permission to hunt and the nice,y made out permission slip I signed says “no outfitters.” Many landowners are tired of dealing with outfitter issues.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

And with many landowners. I’ve received permission to hunt and the nice,y made out permission slip I signed says “no outfitters.” Many landowners are tired of dealing with outfitter issues.

LMFAO!!!!!! That’s awesome

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

And with many landowners. I’ve received permission to hunt and the nice,y made out permission slip I signed says “no outfitters.” Many landowners are tired of dealing with outfitter issues.

I ask landowners for permission every goose season, many ask if I am an outfitter, before granting permission. I have also been offered access without even asking, by landowners that want us to hunt their land, so that the outfitters in the area stop asking them for access. The simple fact is, that many landowners that allow hunting don't want outfitters on their property.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

I'm honestly curious, and I'm making zero assumptions...How many Alberta bighorn hunts have you been on without a guide?

Probably 20-25 days chasing them before
I don’t have horses, I work too much and live in the city
Going on a guided hunt filled in the gap with what I didn’t have
It’s far easier to do that then buy land, horses, trailers, feed, all the tack etc

Contrary to popular belief, if you have an idea what your doing. Your chances of success go way up. Solely relying on your guide to do everything. Your probably not going to have much success. I know a guy who went on 5 guided bighorn sheep hunts before he got one. He also never ever looked through his own binoculars to find one either.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I would venture a guess if we extrapolated the data on percentages it would be fairly close.

So not apples to orange no. More like one tree has more apples so more fall in comparison to the tree next to it.

The biggest difference is people tend to ignore the one tree for some reason, yet want to burn the other tree down. I’m guessing the main reason being jealousy but that’s probably best left out

So resident hunters are greedy, jealous..... anything else, you're doing great.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

And with many landowners. I’ve received permission to hunt and the nice,y made out permission slip I signed says “no outfitters.” Many landowners are tired of dealing with outfitter issues.

I have run into this as well, not the signature but for sure the sentiment.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

So resident hunters are greedy, jealous..... anything else, you're doing great.

I think resident hunters here are 100% greedy and jealous

A vast majority only think about themselves and could care less about anyone else

Pretty much sums up why we have a thread bashing outfitters who have access to statistically, close to 10% of the resource across the province. Resident hunters and draw applications numbers have increased like 60-70% but the problem still has to be the 10% that the outfitters get? The root cause of longer draw times isnt outfitters

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

And with many landowners. I’ve received permission to hunt and the nice,y made out permission slip I signed says “no outfitters.” Many landowners are tired of dealing with outfitter issues.

Many more land owners are tired of Joe Average than outfitters has been my experience. Do you really believe those who do not allow access is because of the outfitting industry ?

Originally Posted by pikergolf

So resident hunters are greedy, jealous..... anything else, you're doing great.

Actually there is a lot of truth in the above statement. The average resident feels entitled, wants everything with minimal effort and ****es and moans when they have to wait in line.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Many more land owners are tired of Joe Average than outfitters has been my experience. Do you really believe those who do not allow access is because of the outfitting industry ?



Actually there is a lot of truth in the above statement. The average resident feels entitled, wants everything with minimal effort and moans when they have to wait in line.

The average resident does moan, when he has to wait in line, while non residents skip the lineup entirely. If everyone had to wait in line, the residents wouldn't be as upset. Given that residents pay the taxes that pay the biologists, and the staff that manages our wildlife, and the staff that enforces our regulations, the residents have a reason to moan.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The average resident does moan, when he has to wait in line, while non residents skip the lineup entirely. If everyone had to wait in line, the residents wouldn't be as upset.

So, feel free to hire an outfitter in another province and skip the line... Or go to another country and skip the line.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Probably 20-25 days chasing them before
I don’t have horses, I work too much and live in the city
Going on a guided hunt filled in the gap with what I didn’t have
It’s far easier to do that then buy land, horses, trailers, feed, all the tack etc

Contrary to popular belief, if you have an idea what your doing. Your chances of success go way up. Solely relying on your guide to do everything. Your probably not going to have much success. I know a guy who went on 5 guided bighorn sheep hunts before he got one. He also never ever looked through his own binoculars to find one either.

What makes you think you need horses to hunt sheep? Lots of guys rely solely on a guide to do everything isn't that what you pay for. You sound like your related to Dale Allen he made the same comment that sheep hunting is easy! But hey chasing sheep for 25 days makes one a experienced sheep hunter.

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Probably 20-25 days chasing them before
I don’t have horses, I work too much and live in the city
Going on a guided hunt filled in the gap with what I didn’t have
It’s far easier to do that then buy land, horses, trailers, feed, all the tack etc

Contrary to popular belief, if you have an idea what your doing. Your chances of success go way up. Solely relying on your guide to do everything. Your probably not going to have much success. I know a guy who went on 5 guided bighorn sheep hunts before he got one. He also never ever looked through his own binoculars to find one either.

Unfortunate you didn't keep at it without horses, and without a guide. I think you would have gathered more of an appreciation. Horses are nice for some but not needed, not even close.