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Old 11-26-2015, 06:13 PM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Question the .280 Ross

I really don't know why but I think tinkering with a mark III would be a worthy project.I believe it was well made just should not of gone into ww1 general service.It is very fast to cycle (watched a video on this) and has a very strong action and will put up good numbers today.Bullets and brass could be an issue.Has anyone been down this particular path?
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:00 AM
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There's some information in this post

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...highlight=ross

Make sure the rivet is in place
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:37 AM
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I have a friend who shoots one in 280.
I have been toying with the idea of getting one as well, but just don't have the time to mess around with it - nice rifles though.
Cat
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Old 11-27-2015, 07:11 PM
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I have had some interest in them as well,I think in 280,I am curious to see what they go for,I better do some searches.
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:10 PM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Originally Posted by bat119 View Post
There's some information in this post

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showt...highlight=ross

Make sure the rivet is in place
Yes, I understand thr rivet was added later as a reference point.I don't think is that dangerous to use.The action is really quick-like a lever gun.It could be a very good sporting rifle.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:22 AM
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you do realise that 280 Ross is not the same as 280 Remington?
The balistics however are very similar.
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:18 AM
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The 280 Ross has the same volume as a 7mm Mag case with the band removed however it was loaded to 1912 pressures with the powders of the day. This is cartridge could easily loaded to higher pressure than the action could take, one would need to be careful using todays components. The original round used .287 bullets rather than todays .284 bullets I'm not surehow that would affect accuracy.

The action is a slick one although I can see how sand and muck could foul it up.
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:24 PM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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The 280 Ross has the same volume as a 7mm Mag case with the band removed however it was loaded to 1912 pressures with the powders of the day. This is cartridge could easily loaded to higher pressure than the action could take, one would need to be careful using todays components. The original round used .287 bullets rather than todays .284 bullets I'm not surehow that would affect accuracy.

The action is a slick one although I can see how sand and muck could foul it up.
Several bullet manufactures make a .288 bullet.I believe the action was designed to handle 58000 psi!.Those are modern numbers.I think it would be tough to find one of these without barrel pitting etc .
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Old 11-28-2015, 07:26 PM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Default not a .280 rem

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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
you do realise that 280 Ross is not the same as 280 Remington?
The balistics however are very similar.
Yeah , I am not interested in the .280 rem
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:27 PM
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Yeah , I am not interested in the .280 rem
The 280 Ross is an interesting and very capable cartridge, and very few have even felt it's recoil.

It's a very worthy project. Best of luck.
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Old 11-28-2015, 11:34 PM
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The 280 Ross is an interesting and very capable cartridge, and very few have even felt it's recoil.

It's a very worthy project. Best of luck.
The more I look at it the more curious I get about it.What makes it even more so , is my Grandad carried one in ww1.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:58 AM
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The Ross rifle in .303 had nice match chambers that of course were prone to jamming with the crappy war time British tolerance all over the map ammo.Many had their chambers enlarged to fit the British ammo and a wool sock.The .280 version was used unofficially in sniping roles.Harold
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:01 AM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Default 280 Ross

I think the bolt design was extremely advanced for the time.The flaw is a minor one and it is surprising it hasn't become the standard bolt action design.Our modern turn bolt rifles are are not as advanced.I had read somewhere that the trigger has a roller bearing incorporated into the assembly as well.The case has more slope to it and should help the smoothness and reliability in chambering a round.Geez and this was over a hundred years ago, modern rifle makers really have no vision by comparision-the lever gun design was brilliant too, and even farther back...just a thought
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:41 AM
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The Mauser M96 straight pull was a good design I'm surprised they never caught on.

1/2 way through this video its shows the action and the rifle is in my favorite caliber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5oAgcCCJX4

I've never seen one of these for sale in Canada but they do exist they were only made for two years 1996-98
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Old 11-29-2015, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.tinsmith View Post
I think the bolt design was extremely advanced for the time.The flaw is a minor one and it is surprising it hasn't become the standard bolt action design.Our modern turn bolt rifles are are not as advanced.I had read somewhere that the trigger has a roller bearing incorporated into the assembly as well.The case has more slope to it and should help the smoothness and reliability in chambering a round.Geez and this was over a hundred years ago, modern rifle makers really have no vision by comparision-the lever gun design was brilliant too, and even farther back...just a thought

It's not a USA design, it is not and never will be allowed.

When Canadian troops carried it, there was a shortage of rifles available and a war raging across the globe. Since then we produced the Arrow, it was scrapped and all evidence that it existed was erased, we have a treaty and it was enforced.

That is just the way it is. And some wonder why the Arabs hate the USA.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:45 PM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
It's not a USA design, it is not and never will be allowed.

When Canadian troops carried it, there was a shortage of rifles available and a war raging across the globe. Since then we produced the Arrow, it was scrapped and all evidence that it existed was erased, we have a treaty and it was enforced.

That is just the way it is. And some wonder why the Arabs hate the USA.
I had always thought the bolt action was European designed and the Ross was designed in Scotland.Many of the Arabs, Cubans ,N Koreans, and the Chinese have difficulties with the Americans because their systems don't put personal liberty in a high priority.If you are talking about the Avro arrow, I understand it was shelved and swept away.I will do some reading about this now...back to the thread.Has anyone fired, handled or any new information about this Ross rifle.This winter, if time and money allows for it , I will look for a rifle , dies and brass.I wonder if it will accept modern primers? The .287/.88 bullets sre getable.
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.tinsmith View Post
I had always thought the bolt action was European designed and the Ross was designed in Scotland.Many of the Arabs, Cubans ,N Koreans, and the Chinese have difficulties with the Americans because their systems don't put personal liberty in a high priority.If you are talking about the Avro arrow, I understand it was shelved and swept away.I will do some reading about this now...back to the thread.Has anyone fired, handled or any new information about this Ross rifle.This winter, if time and money allows for it , I will look for a rifle , dies and brass.I wonder if it will accept modern primers? The .287/.88 bullets sre getable.

I own a Ross rifle, in .303

And it appears that you are right, they were designed by a Scotsman.

I was told they were designed and built in Canada, but it seems they were designed in Scotland and only built in Canada.

Or maybe the online information is wrong. That happens too.

I'll have to do some more research.
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:49 AM
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Found this, thought some might find it interesting.

Quote:
During the South African War of 1899-1902, the Canadian government had experienced serious problems in obtaining weapons from Britain, on whom it relied for its supplies. In particular the .303 Lee-Enfield rifle was unavailable, and efforts to persuade Birmingham Small Arms Company to set up a branch factory in Canada to manufacture the rifle were unsuccessful. Sir Wilfred Laurier, then the Prime Minister, was persuaded by his Militia Minister, Sir Frederick Borden, that Canada would have to make its own rifle. A new rifle, developed by Sir Charles Ross, had recently appeared on the market. It was a fine target and sporting weapon. Ross came to Ottawa and met with a committee set up to evaluate his rifle. One of the committee members was Sam Hughes, who immediately liked the weapon. It was put through a series of tests, including comparison tests with the Lee-Enfield. In spite of the fact that the Ross jammed and often misfired, the committee recommended its adoption and manufacture in Canada. What “small problems” there were, Sir Charles Ross assured them, could be eliminated with the appropriate modifications. Sam Hughes steadfastly defended the Ross rifle in the House of Commons and was opposed to replacing it. Events were to show that he was tragically wrong. In trench conditions, surrounded by mud and filth, and when it was essential to have a reliable weapon, the Ross was definitely out of place. It had a long barrel and was difficult to use in the trench’s confined spaces, and it frequently jammed. It was indeed a fine weapon – on a firing range under controlled conditions. But the First Division’s stand at Ypres in the face of a gas attack, Canadian soldiers threw away their Ross rifles in despair and frustration, and picked up Lee-Enfields from dead British soldiers on the battlefield.
In spite of this, the Second Division went to France with Ross rifles and again the results were much the same, with solders throwing away jammed weapons. By July 1916 Sir Douglas Haig, the new Commander-in-Chief, had ordered the replacement of all Ross rifles by the Lee-Enfield, then becoming widely available. To the end, Hughes refused to accept that there were problems with the Ross, and it took the intervention of many influential people to persuade him otherwise. In November 1916, Hughes resigned, after the new Prime Minister’s (Sir Robert Borden, who incidentally was the cousin of Sir Frederick Borden) decision to appoint a Minister of Overseas Forces. Hughes died in 1921 at the age of 69.But Hughes’ legacy was not only the Ross Rifle. Check out the MacAdam Shield Shovel!
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:54 AM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Quote:
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Found this, thought some might find it interesting.
it is very interesting
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by KegRiver View Post
I own a Ross rifle, in .303

And it appears that you are right, they were designed by a Scotsman.

I was told they were designed and built in Canada, but it seems they were designed in Scotland and only built in Canada.

Or maybe the online information is wrong. That happens too.

I'll have to do some more research.
I have a book about the Ross rifle.
Ross was born in Scotland in 1872 He designed the Ross rifle in 1896 and patented it in 1897.
The first Ross rifles were manufactured in Connecticut, where they were stocked and barreled with barrels made by Charles Lancaster in Bbritain.
These were civilian rifles .
Ross began production in Canada in a factory he built on the Plains of Abraham and in 1902 signed a contract for 12,000 rifles.
Cat
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Last edited by catnthehat; 12-01-2015 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:49 AM
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Smile I have one too

I think that Ross got a bad rap. The last thing Britain wanted was Canada manufacturing small arms. Sam Hughes was an idiot or mentally ill and that has all been laid at the Ross rifle's door. It was a very popular deer rifle in its day.

The action and sight are very advanced for 1914, even to-day.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:05 AM
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It's a great sporting rifle but makes a lousy battle rifle.
That was proven during the war
As well as trials using a long Lee as a control rifle .
Cat
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:26 PM
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You need this book

Years and years of asking at gunshows, and I finally found it at my hometown gunshow!
A brutally sporterized Ross was my first ever centerfire rifle. The only time I was nervous about firing it was the very first time, when I knew nothing about the Ross, other than about the rumours of them blowing the bolt into people's faces. (The Lord saves the simple)
My Ross always comes along on hunting trips as my back up rifle now.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:34 PM
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Shot a whitetail with it a couple years ago.
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:14 AM
t.tinsmith t.tinsmith is offline
 
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Quote:
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Shot a whitetail with it a couple years ago.
Thanks Dewey, I will look for this book as well, it must be long out of print.Does your rifle shoot well?
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