Are you allowed to call before legal hunt start time?

[walk in the woods]

New to elk calling. Are you allowed to be calling in the early morning, before legal light? Regs say "no hunting or discharging firearm between 1/2 hour after sunset or 1/2 hour before sunrise". So I guess I am wondering if bugle calls to locate in that time are considered "hunting".

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by walk in the woods

New to elk calling. Are you allowed to be calling in the early morning, before legal light? Regs say "no hunting or discharging firearm between 1/2 hour after sunset or 1/2 hour before sunrise". So I guess I am wondering if bugle calls to locate in that time are considered "hunting".

It's not a great idea to call before you can legally shoot, I've had Bulls come roaring in and couldn't shoot because it was way too dark.

But we have gone out at 2-3 in the morning and located the herd by bugleing, so we knew where they would be in the morning

[Gbuss]

If you quack like a hunter flap like a hunter and call like a hunter be for legal light it is considered hunting. That is my opinion but I have been known to be wrong time to time.

Gordon

[kerthump]

Could lead to trouble, I have heard of a hunter getting a warning from the CO for scouting in the summer. He was dressed in camo, so dressed like a hunter, assumed to be hunting. Shoulda dressed like a birdwatcher

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by walk in the woods

New to elk calling. Are you allowed to be calling in the early morning, before legal light? Regs say "no hunting or discharging firearm between 1/2 hour after sunset or 1/2 hour before sunrise". So I guess I am wondering if bugle calls to locate in that time are considered "hunting".

If you have an approved weapon on your person at the time, I wouldn't be calling before legal times.

LC

[GunMunKey]

That's hunting, don't do it.

[stob]

Originally Posted by kerthump

Could lead to trouble, I have heard of a hunter getting a warning from the CO for scouting in the summer. He was dressed in camo, so dressed like a hunter, assumed to be hunting. Shoulda dressed like a birdwatcher

I have always found a tilley hat gets rid of the CO's... for back up I wave a set a birkenstocks at them ... had 2 of them bust us for drinking beer at 11 am out moose hunting once ... when we dropped the cans as instructed they were tonic water and not labat's blue or kokanee ... we had a tense discussion and one of the three apologised ... also, out flyfishing for white's on the canal b/w macgregor and little bow alone, had two kid's try and bust me up... one stood behind an open door of their truck with a gun drawn at their side ... there are a lot of duds out there in all professions

[Coiloil37]

Technically it's "hunting" and it's illegal. My old man was charged and convicted for it in the late 80's. He also lost the elk he shot after legal light and the following years hunting privileges because he admitted to having bugled before shooting light to the CO.

[58thecat]

Yup.

Just don't have your weapon with you or you are hunting...go for a walk in the dark and call away...moose hunters do it, elk hunters do it to locate critters for the next day, some do it days before the season opens, scouting and calling.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by stob

I have always found a tilley hat gets rid of the CO's... for back up I wave a set a birkenstocks at them ... had 2 of them bust us for drinking beer at 11 am out moose hunting once ... when we dropped the cans as instructed they were tonic water and not labat's blue or kokanee ... we had a tense discussion and one of the three apologised ... also, out flyfishing for white's on the canal b/w macgregor and little bow alone, had two kid's try and bust me up... one stood behind an open door of their truck with a gun drawn at their side ... there are a lot of duds out there in all professions

There are also a lot of people with no respect for Game Wardens .

You may think it was funny and they over reacted but they deal with drinking hunters on a continual basis and wardens have been shot in the line of duty in the same scenarios you just discribed

As far as the OP is concerned you would be in gir a court date to prove you were not hunting
Cat

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by stob

I have always found a tilley hat gets rid of the CO's... for back up I wave a set a birkenstocks at them ... had 2 of them bust us for drinking beer at 11 am out moose hunting once ... when we dropped the cans as instructed they were tonic water and not labat's blue or kokanee ... we had a tense discussion and one of the three apologised ... also, out flyfishing for white's on the canal b/w macgregor and little bow alone, had two kid's try and bust me up... one stood behind an open door of their truck with a gun drawn at their side ... there are a lot of duds out there in all professions

Need a little flask with some Oban. Much easier to hide.

And here I read elsewhere on the forum all LEOs should be able to carry even when off duty? Seems like some shouldn't be allowed to carry at all.

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Need a little flask with some Oban. Much easier to hide.

And here I read elsewhere on the forum all LEOs should be able to carry even when off duty? Seems like some shouldn't be allowed to carry at all.

You encourage how to better get away with drinking and then criticize leo who are trying to keep us all safe. Id stand behind the people trying to protect the outdoors before i sided with some ignorant yahoos who are drinking while they are shooting.

I think all law abiding people should be allowed to carry handguns when they are out in the wilderness, but then theres too many people who push the limits by silly decisions. Keep your drinks for after.

As for fish cops checking in on people as they come across them, I think its great. Fish cops are satisfied when they find everything is legit, and the guys getting checked on know its a safe area and that there's help around if they get into a mess. Unless you are the type of person that thinks the hunting laws are ridiculous and that they dont apply to you, then i can see why an interaction with fish and game would make a person nervous.

Now off of the topic of drinking and leo 'harassment' and back to if calling before sunrise is hunting or not

[DJS]

The original post is a good question. To be honest I have never even thought about it. There are a lot of mornings I leave the truck an hour before legal light to get into the area I want to hunt. Especially during elk season. And I start bugling very early just to get a general location of where the elk are. Like I said, I've never even considered the fact it might be illegal. Real good question and I'd love to get a CO's take on it.

[macee]

So the way some are talking you would not be able to leave your camp or house with a weapon before legal light as that can be interpreted as hunting

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

It's not a great idea to call before you can legally shoot, I've had Bulls come roaring in and couldn't shoot because it was way too dark.

But we have gone out at 2-3 in the morning and located the herd by bugleing, so we knew where they would be in the morning

x2 on the chance a bull can come in before legal light. A buddy and I were hunting moose a few years ago and we snuck into an area about half an hour before legal light. I let out a cow call to see if anything might be near by so we would have a better idea of where to set up if there was and as bad luck would have it we got a response from a bull that was about 100 yrds away. Took him all of 2 mins to cover that distance and walk across cutline 25 yards in front of us. One of the biggest bulls I've ever called in and we had to watch him walk away.

[Nyksta]

I figure the sunrise time rule is so that theres enough light for identification, and just like macee said, if 'hunting' in any form is not allowed before half hour of sunrise then walking in could be considered pushing bush. I think that the rule number '11. hunt any wildlife or discharge a firearm between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise. (See sunrise/sunset table)' is trying to include all forms of weapons from being fired.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by macee

So the way some are talking you would not be able to leave your camp or house with a weapon before legal light as that can be interpreted as hunting

hunting is specifically defined
) “hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to
a subject animal,
(i) shoot at, harass or worry,
(ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search
for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
(iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
(iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
(v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in
subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person
is so hunting;


so don't do that before legal light

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

I figure the sunrise time rule is so that theres enough light for identification, and just like macee said, if 'hunting' in any form is not allowed before half hour of sunrise then walking in could be considered pushing bush. I think that the rule number '11. hunt any wildlife or discharge a firearm between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise. (See sunrise/sunset table)' is trying to include all forms of weapons from being fired.

Pushing bush would have to be interpreted at the time of the investigation
Calling before legal light would be a pretty easy conviction depending on the situation
Cat

[heretohunt]

You would be surprised at what is considered hunting. At the same time it's right there in the regulations. If you are calling elk for the purpose of hunting then you are hunting. You can be convicted if you don't have a valid licence or out of season or outside of legal hunting hours.
Pretty much anything that contributes to the hunt is hunting. That being said the officer will use his discretion. Some have good judgement and some don't. The officer can charge you with whatever he/she wants but it is up to the judge to convict you. The officer is just an information gatherer. It's never a good idea to give a statement until you know what it is exact what you are being charged with and the full definitions of all of the terms that the officer uses. They are sneaky sometimes.
I would like to believe that if they feel that they have caught you doing something then they will charge you with something. Grey areas should just be a warning, but...

[Slicktricker]

What about waking into an area an hour before daylight? I always am waiting that early waiting for sun to come up

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

hunting is specifically defined
) “hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to
a subject animal,
(i) shoot at, harass or worry,
(ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search
for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
(iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
(iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
(v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in
subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person
is so hunting;


so don't do that before legal light

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

What about waking into an area an hour before daylight? I always am waiting that early waiting for sun to come up

well...

[Birchcraft]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

hunting is specifically defined
) “hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to
a subject animal,
(i) shoot at, harass or worry,
(ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search
for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
(iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
(iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
(v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in
subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person
is so hunting;


so don't do that before legal light

Under which one of those definitions would calling fall? It is neither shooting, harassing, worrying, capturing, injuring, or killing. And it would not necessarily be considered laying in wait for.

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

What about waking into an area an hour before daylight? I always am waiting that early waiting for sun to come up

The same rules apply. Make sure that you are just traveling to where you are hunting.
It is very common to call before or after legal light but I wouldn't want to write a statement about it to fish and wildlife.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

And it would not necessarily be considered laying in wait for.

well i guess if you stand and wait for the elk

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Under which one of those definitions would calling fall? It is neither shooting, harassing, worrying, capturing, injuring, or killing. And it would not necessarily be considered laying in wait for.

"Pursue. "

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

well i guess if you stand and wait for the elk

Don't start waiting until after legal hunting time.

[catnthehat]

I may be wrong but it would be covered under " pursue "
You are not literally chasing them but you are trying to bring them in
One must also realize that every situation is different well
Cat

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

Don't start waiting until after legal hunting time.

before that you can be counting toes, eating breakfast, worrying about your stove/iron being on.

but anything to do with elk is bad before you're allowed to

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I may be wrong but it would be covered under " pursue "
You are not literally chasing them but you are trying to bring them in
One must also realize that every situation is different well
Cat

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

hunting is specifically defined
) “hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to
a subject animal,
(i) shoot at, harass or worry,
(ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search
for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
(iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
(iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
(v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in
subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person
is so hunting;


so don't do that before legal light

not allowed to search for them or locate them either.

it's very restrictive the way it's worded

[ramonmark]

Originally Posted by Slicktricker

What about waking into an area an hour before daylight? I always am waiting that early waiting for sun to come up

That's a good question. I do the same thing too. Although from a conviction stand point the judge would have to prove intent and the act. Honestly thats what most people do it to. It would be a very hard case to prove. One would have to prove that you were 'hunting' or in this case waiting. Most would say if asked your waiting for the sun to come up. But if they could prove you were waiting for an animal to show up so you could shoot it during sundown then itd be over. Most likely the only way it would stick is you'd have to be caught red handed waiting and shooting the animal in the dark.