Are you allowed to call before legal hunt start time?

[Smokinyotes]

Frequently when I'm out hunting grouse in late September early October I pack my 20ga o/u with #6 shot. As I walk along looking for birds I "cow call" just to see if I can get a response. So could I be accused of hunting or harassing moose?

[fish_e_o]

Anyone want to make $300????


Call report a Poacher and tell them some dope admitted to poaching on a public forum

[300magman]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

Remember that time a ton of guys on AO convoluted a rookies basic question by ever so classically over analyzing? that was neat.

Guys by your own interpretations every waterfowl hunter across alberta is committing a crime by doing morning shoots.

To the OP, call away sir, just make sure you aren't shooting before or after legal light comes and goes.

Well said, and I fully agree. I will continue to bugle in the middle of the night, or call moose before bed in preparation for the next days hunt. Same as I will continue to walk to my stand before legal shooting hours, and walk out after they are done. The over analysis of this is crazy imo. the way the law is actually worded, damn near anything except driving on a highway without a weapon staring straight ahead, would be considered hunting.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by 300magman

Well said, and I fully agree. I will continue to bugle in the middle of the night, or call moose before bed in preparation for the next days hunt. Same as I will continue to walk to my stand before legal shooting hours, and walk out after they are done. The over analysis of this is crazy imo. the way the law is actually worded, damn near anything except driving on a highway without a weapon staring straight ahead, would be considered hunting.

x2!!

[hawk-i]

I can't see how calling would be considered hunting but thats just me.

I learnt to bugle for Elk in the 80's when I lived in Hinton...Me and a buddy would go into Jasper and try to call them out of the park.

We certainly were not hunting!

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by 300magman

the way the law is actually worded, damn near anything except driving on a highway without a weapon staring straight ahead, would be considered hunting.

so screw the law you're going to break it anyway.

yet we'll probably see you saying something like "as long as it's legal go for it"

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by hawk-i

I can't see how calling would be considered hunting but thats just me.

I learnt to bugle for Elk in the 80's when I lived in Hinton...Me and a buddy would go into Jasper and try to call them out of the park.

We certainly were not hunting!

Technically you were hunting by definition of the law. Luring animals out of a national park is another can of worms itself.

[RolHammer]

Interesting thread.

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

hunting is specifically defined
) “hunt” means, subject to subsection (6), with reference to
a subject animal,
(i) shoot at, harass or worry,
(ii) chase, pursue, follow after or on the trail of, search
for, flush, stalk or lie in wait for,
(iii) capture or wilfully injure or kill,
(iv) attempt to capture, injure or kill, or
(v) assist another person to hunt in a manner specified in
subclause (i), (ii), (iii) or (iv) while that other person
is so hunting;

I'd interpreted the bolded part as not actually having started or occurring until you have loaded your firearm. Walking into a stand and getting yourself situated are acts preparatory to the hunt, but not the hunt itself. The sine qua non here is whether the firearm has been brought to a loaded state.

The test case for this idea is the end of the day. At the last moment of legal light, if you unload and sling your rifle you are no longer hunting and your walk out begins. This only makes sense. An interpretation of your walking out of the stand as including activities bolded above follows no logic, as to avoid them you would have to have departed your stand a sufficient amount of time for you to have returned to your camp/vehicle/starting point by the last moment of legal light, which is not reasonable.

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by RolHammer

Interesting thread.

I'd interpreted the bolded part as not actually having started or occurring until you have loaded your firearm. Walking into a stand and getting yourself situated are acts preparatory to the hunt, but not the hunt itself. The sine qua non here is whether the firearm has been brought to a loaded state.

The test case for this idea is the end of the day. At the last moment of legal light, if you unload and sling your rifle you are no longer hunting and your walk out begins. This only makes sense. An interpretation of your walking out of the stand as including activities bolded above follows no logic, as to avoid them you would have to have departed your stand a sufficient amount of time for you to have returned to your camp/vehicle/starting point by the last moment of legal light, which is not reasonable.

there's two types of law in Canada legislation which comes from the people we elect and case law which comes from rulings in court.

walking buffalo just presented you with case law which is even more restrictive than the legislation

there isn't wiggle room, the law doesn't say "well if your weapon is unloaded..." nope. it doesn't say "well you can pursue and search for animals in the middle of the night if you've been a good boy and eaten your veggies"

[Bergerboy]

Don't forget, whether your convicted is one thing, if you get charged and you get off in court, your gonna spend many thousands of dollars in legal costs. I think if your going to push the laws, you better have 10k laying in trust.

[RolHammer]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Note that the definition of "Hunting" includes the possession of a weapon.

Scout during the day or at night, even with a spotlight, but never with a weapon, not even a short spear (knife).


The loosely worded definition of hunting certainly can be used by LE in perhaps unintended ways.


For example. A couple of guys are driving down a highway in a provincial park on their way through to their hunting area. They stop for a coffee on the side of the road (legally). Sipping coffee and looking at the scenery, a parks warden pulls up behind with the lights flashing.

"Are you hunting?"

No, I am having a coffee.

"Do you have a hunting licence or any weapons in the vehicle?"

Yes. Here are the licences and the guns are cased in the back.

"Then you are hunting.... May I search your vehicle? I have the right to search your vehicle because you admitted to having a hunting licence and weapons, thus you are hunting."


Technically, according to the current law, possession of a weapon can be concluding evidence that a person is hunting whether or not they have any intention of pursuing or killing any animal at that location and time. Simply viewing a subject animal while in the possession of a weapon can be considered hunting.

These guys could have been charged with hunting in a Provincial Park.

Plausible scenario. Where it takes its turn is with their response to the first bolded inquiry. The two fellows are under no obligation to reply in this circumstance.

The second bolded part is a bit shaggy. Their admission to the first inquiry may or may not empower the officer to search, I'm unclear on that. Supposing he were so empowered, however, why would he ask permission to search? If he were not so empowered, there is no reason to submit to this search. "No, I'm not really comfortable with that, officer. If you're intent on this, I respectfully request you obtain the proper warrants and then the search can proceed. Meanwhile, I will be contacting my own legal counsel."

[DJS]

This thread has gotten to the point of hilarious. Call, walk, hike, drive before and after legal light. Don't shoot at anything before or after the legal times. Enough said.

[300magman]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

so screw the law you're going to break it anyway.

yet we'll probably see you saying something like "as long as it's legal go for it"

The law is worded way too loosely to get a clear picture for what is or isn't breaking it. If your driving to your hunting spot in the dark, and a deer jumps across the road and you look at it as you drive by, your hunting. If you sit until the end of legal light, then walk out, your hunting. So your saying that you begin the drive to your hunting spot at legal light, and ensure you walk out with enough time to drive home before the end of legal light to make sure you might not inadvertently see a deer in a field with a weapon in your possession? Imo, this law is meant for enforcement if your sitting in the bush bugling 20min before legal with a gun in your hands ready to pull the trigger at legal, not meant for bugling at midnight when legal is at 7 the next morning. And there have been articles in ao magazine as well as many, many others suggesting that an effective tactic for moose hunting is to call the previous day before bed to hunt there the next morning (obviously without a weapon in your possession one can assume). If you can provide one actual case where someone was charged for calling in an area more than say an hour before legal shooting hours then I will gladly eat my hat, but if not I'm going to stick to my interpretation.

[catnthehat]

Things have gotten right crazy here
I booked into the Jasper park lodge the other night with my rifle a shotgun and lisences for both waterfowl and big game as well as upland .
If a warden stops me and tells me I am hunting either there or when I am hunting he will be told to go pound sand .
As was state thus thread has gone right over the top
Cat