Trapping devices

[parfleche]

I have a couple of new trapping related devices on the go , But do not know how to go about protecting my idea . Does anyone on here have knowledge on how to go about protecting BEFORE patenting?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by parfleche

I have a couple of new trapping related devices on the go , But do not know how to go about protecting my idea . Does anyone on here have knowledge on how to go about protecting BEFORE patenting?

Just send me pictures and schematics for what you have. I'll have a look and let you know how to proceed

[HunterDave]

A few years ago I met an engineer who did things like this for a living. I don't know the name of the Edmonton company that he worked for but it may be this one.

http://2innovative.net/?gclid=CMus3J...FQEdaQodEBEEpA

[Marty S]

Patents are for oil companies and pharmaceutical companies. They don't really do a little trapper a whole lot of good. It gives you the ability to sue, IF you can win your case. Good luck with that. Meanwhile the people make $1000 an hour, from your pocket which you can also sue for which also is dependant upon you winning your lawsuit.

It's a good scare tactic tho, because most people would be afraid to copy something out of fear of the unknown.

I just don't think there's enough money in our trade to warrant a patent for most things.

[wallydog]

maybe best to talk to a lawyer

[Typical]

See a lawyer, you must register your idea . At that time your idea will be patent pending until it is approved.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I will offer you my services free of charge. I was a Industrial Technology Advisor for the Alberta Research Council for 25 years. My job was advise companies on technology and provide financial grants to help develop their product. We also provided patent advice. I am now just old retired trapper and hunter.

[KegRiver]

Many of you know I have been working on an invention myself.

First, the best way to protect your idea is to keep as much information about it secret as you can while doing what you wish to do with it.
What you wish to do with it determines what you keep secret.

Never give out critical information until you have a signed non disclosure contract or agreement.

Suppliers and lawyers hate signing non disclosure agreements. Best to avoid giving them critical information requiring a non disclosure agreement.

And of course I looked into legally protecting my invention.

I am in the process of applying for a patent, but what Marty says has a lot of truth in it.

Fact, a patent does nothing in of itself. It is simply a very expensive piece of paper that a Judge may consider proof you invented something before anyone else did.

Second, if someone violates your patent in any way, you have to;

A: find out about it.
B: initiate legal action.
C: prey that your lawyer is smarter then his lawyer, and that you can afford to loose more money then he can.

What a patent does do.

It is one possible piece of evidence that a Judge is likely to accept as proof you invented something first.
It makes retailers happy.
It gives you bargaining power should you wish to sell your idea.
It scares off timid crooks
It makes you seem smarter. Bragging rights.

And it can be used as fire starter in an emergency.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Keg I highly respect your vast knowledge on trapping and hunting. However on patent law you are way over your head on this one. You make some good points but a small guy needs patent protection if his product is worth anything. I spent 45 years in industrial research and patent law with major companies such as Dow, Sherritt, Syncrude and Suncor besides ARC & NRC.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Parfleche, I will give you my poor man patent advice. Prepare detailed drawings of your device along with detailed description. Place is sealed envelope and mail it back to yourself by registered mail. Never open it
but keep in safe place. Second point if you start marketing your product you will limit the chance to file a patent, it is considered public disclosure.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Keg I highly respect your vast knowledge on trapping and hunting. However on patent law you are way over your head on this one. You make some good points but a small guy needs patent protection if his product is worth anything. I spent 45 years in industrial research and patent law with major companies such as Dow, Sherritt, Syncrude and Suncor besides ARC & NRC.

I don't doubt your experience in dealing with the big players, how much have you dealt with clients like me ?
On a small fixed income and with zero experience and zero contacts.

I bet a company like Dow has no trouble getting their product on to store shelves. For me it's proving to be a huge huge problem.
And it's not because my product won't sell. I could tell you stories about some spectacular sales experiences I've had, but this isn't the time or place for that.

I'm sure we've all seen junk that made someone millions. If you have the money you can sell almost anything.
But inventing a better mousetrap is not a guaranteed to make you rich.

Many good inventions made their inventors nothing.

What I'm saying is, what works for the big players often does not work for the little guy. An inventor like myself has neither the knowledge nor resources to find those professionals that could advise me on what to do and what not to do or on how to get a patent or how to get my product on to store shelves.

And we certainly can't afford to hire the lawyers to defend an idea or the expert witnesses to back us up in court.

You may well be right about what works for the big players like Dow and Suncor, but I have done a lot of research and talked to patent lawyers and small business advisors.
I am not totally inexperienced when it comes to what it takes to protect a product or how to get it to market.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Parfleche, I will give you my poor man patent advice. Prepare detailed drawings of your device along with detailed description. Place is sealed envelope and mail it back to yourself by registered mail. Never open it
but keep in safe place. Second point if you start marketing your product you will limit the chance to file a patent, it is considered public disclosure.

Sounds interesting. Why would you do this?


Do you have any advice for someone who has no drawing skills and no idea what details are required ? And no money to hire a profesional.

[calgarychef]

The mailing idea gives you no patent protection but it does establish a date for the invention.

The very first thing to do when inventing is go to the us patent office online and spend a few hours (days?) doing a Boolean search to see if your idea has been patented already. if it has you won't be able to do so yourself unless you can prove significant differences.

[parfleche]

Thanks fellows! I have been told about the mail thing and then some say no, But yes I can see that it would place a date on my idea.
When I first began in the 70,s I submitted an idea record and I had to get it notarized by a JP . But LIFE came at me head on and feeding my kids became the most important thing , Now I am retired and have time on my hands ,
I would like to leave something behind me in regards to make trapping more humane , If nothing else . I can"t see myself getting rich , But that would make it worth while!

[7mmstwguy]

If it's a good invention you have to get patents in other countries too, unless you only want to protect it in Canada.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

The mailing idea gives you no patent protection but it does establish a date for the invention.

That makes sense, but there are other ways to acomplish the same thing are there not?

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Spend a few hours (days?) doing a Boolean search to see if your idea has been patented already.

What is a boolean search?

[parfleche]

IF It comes to fruition , I would get it anywhere trapping is done Yes.
A couple of items are only help full devices very simple but yet have not appeared to be available. So It,s got my brain whirling to say the least!

[calgarychef]

You could pm "Chimpac" here on AO if I remember correctly he's patented something himself and might be able to give some advise.

[savage10]

Try getting on Dragons Den.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Keg, you are correct at Dow, Sherritt we had our own patent lawyers. However when at ARC I would provide patent advice, technology and patent searches for start-ups and even individual inventors. Best year I handled over 300 inventors, start-ups and companies. I believe the earlier advice is referring to complete a patent search but incorrect spelling. Yes patent search is best first step, you can complete poor man search on Google, not as good as law office patent search but good start.

[calgarychef]

It is indeed a Boolean search. That's a way of forcing the search engine to search using specific parameters. Fist thing to do is google Boolean search, learn how to do one (it's not hard) then go ahead and do the patent search.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

It is indeed a Boolean search. That's a way of forcing the search engine to search using specific parameters. Fist thing to do is google Boolean search, learn how to do one (it's not hard) then go ahead and do the patent search.

I did some research and figured out what boolean meant. So I tried it, still no results, as in no similar products one the market.

And an individual can do a basic patent search on the patent data base through the patent office website. I did that as well and again found nothing close to what I invented.

And like I said, I talked to a couple of patent lawyers and a couple of folks who had tried to get a patent.

For me the biggest issue is paying for a patent application. $20,000 seems to be a minimum estimate of the cost. That is way beyond my means at this time.

A second issue I have is my drawing skills. I don't have any that would suit the patent office and I don't know anyone who does. I also can't afford to pay for a professional patent artist.

That leaves me with very few options.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Keg, you are correct at Dow, Sherritt we had our own patent lawyers. However when at ARC I would provide patent advice, technology and patent searches for start-ups and even individual inventors. Best year I handled over 300 inventors, start-ups and companies. I believe the earlier advice is referring to complete a patent search but incorrect spelling. Yes patent search is best first step, you can complete poor man search on Google, not as good as law office patent search but good start.

Okay, I accept that you know both points of view, so what information I posted do you see as incorrect ?

Is it what I said a patent can and can not do ? If so please explain.
Clearly I'm not an expert, I only pass on what I've been told. And a good part of what I said in that regard came from a patent lawyer.

To be honest, I don't put a lot of stock in what lawyers tell me. They know I can't afford their services and so they have no reason to help me.

Honestly, all lawyers are trained to be deceptive, it a big part of how they win cases in court, so why should I believe what they tell me.

[parfleche]

Dragons Den, Yes the idea did occur to me , I don"t know that I could control myself from attacking the pointy nose bald guy , when he starts getting personal! Those city slickers would laugh me right off the set! LOL

[Big Grey Wolf]

Keg I have way to much respect for you to get into a pis_ing match with you over smaller details. I would gladly sit down with you and have a good discussion on how to patent and market a product over a few glasses of rye , if our trails should cross. You can give me trapping advice and I can share my patent knowledge.

[parfleche]

Big AHWWOO ! lol
I have one item that I am ready to put out , It is something that is a
n improvement on an existing item , BUT it is different ,more compact , easy to carry , easy handling That being said I don,t believe it would be profitable to patent , but it certainly would sell,
What I,m not sure of is how do I protect the idea from copy ? before someone takes it and runs with it ?
It,s absolutely simple but way easier to work with than the existing one.
So should a fellow just make a whole bunch and see where it goes ?
Just make prototypes and mail them to marketers IE: Halfords, Trans Canada etc ? see how many orders a fellow gets? tHX

[HunterDave]

Something else to consider......Unless it's something complex and made out of hard to find items, you can bet that people will just make their own based on your idea. I'm thinking that whoever invented the colony trap isn't a millionaire.....lol!

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

Keg I have way to much respect for you to get into a pis_ing match with you over smaller details. I would gladly sit down with you and have a good discussion on how to patent and market a product over a few glasses of rye , if our trails should cross. You can give me trapping advice and I can share my patent knowledge.

I would love that, even if we only talked about the price of rice in China.

And I was not looking to get into any sort of contest with you, I was wondering what statements I made that you disagreed with and how you see it differently. You really weren't very specific.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Something else to consider......Unless it's something complex and made out of hard to find items, you can bet that people will just make their own based on your idea. I'm thinking that whoever invented the colony trap isn't a millionaire.....lol!

I'm sure that is true of some devices. But I am surprised how many people would rather pay for an item they could easily build themselves, like a garden shed. One local lumber yard builds several dozen basic wood frame garden sheds a year and they have no problem selling them.

I suspect you are right about the inventor of the colony trap, but not because people build their own.

I think most of us have heard the story of Post-it-notes. How simple can it be and still make it's inventor millions !

Actually I've done some serious thinking about this very thing. I find that there may be several reasons for the way this works.
Cost may be one factor.

Take my invention for example. I can build them for under ten dollars now, but the first few cost a lot more. To begin with, the thumb screw alone cost me $25.00. I soon found a supplier that would sell me the same part for a little over $5.00, still way to high when the costs of everything else was factored in. When I started buying 1,000 at a time I finally got the cost down to where I could build a cost effective product. But even now time is a problematic factor. If I paid myself minimum wage for the time spent so far I would have to charge over $100.00 each for a $15.00 product.

Then there is time. The first prototype took nearly three days to produce, and it was CRUDE and RUDE.

The last factor I see is quality. If you are going to only produce one, no matter what it is, it's more then likely going to be far less then perfect.
The more you make the better you get at it.

When you look at all the factors, even a small piece of paper with a glue strip on it may be much cheaper bought in a store then built at home.

[parfleche]

That was you I was calling there Big Grey Wolf ! Big AHWWOOo LOL