Wanting a hunting dog some day....questions

[Aventura]

I've always been fascinated by hunting dogs but have never had one nor do I know anything about owning one.
I was thinking for birding and cougar hunts.
Can the same dog be used for both?
What breeds should I look into?
Where would I get a well trained dog?
Do they require continual training?

I have so many questions and was hoping for some advice on here to get me started learning.


Please and thank you.

[JRsMav]

Im not too familiar with cat hounds, but Im guessing if you want a decent dual purpose dog your best bet would be something along the lines of a griffon or GWP. I train my own dogs, but I also don't compete in trialing or hunt tests etc. If you're looking for a dog I would look at getting involved in a retriever club where you will be able to learn from other members and train with them. I like training my own dogs.....and contrary to what some people will tell you....you can and will end up with a very serviceable field dog if you put in the time. I continuously train my mutts to keep them sharp and keep them interested, although in the winter months I do scale back the routine to keep drive alive. You need to decide what 'kind' of dog you want. If you want a competition dog get a pup from competition lines. If you want a good field dog get one from non competition lines with some competition blood in their line.... Do your best to stay away from show lines if your breed is known for having a distinct differentiation (ie golden retrievers / labs) There IS a difference between the three, and don't for one second let anyone fool you into thinking that a trialing line makes the best field dogs. You will soon see posts on here, and any other forum you have hit, stating that their dog is the way to go. Meaning, you will have guys tell you their lab can do absolutely everything, you will have chessie owners tell you their breed is the best, GSP's and so forth. Look at the parents, hunt over the parents etc. Get what works best for you and your family. ANY breed can be made into a very serviceable hunting dog if you put in the time.

I think griffons are a good starting point for you if youre looking at a good versatile cold weather dog.....and that's coming from a diehard chessie and lab fan.

[Aventura]

Great information Mav.
Thanks so much.
A retriever club sounds like the place to start.
I think a field dog is what I'm looking for.
I don't care about competitions.
I'll check into the Griffons.

Thanks again.
This is exactly the beginning information I needed.

[Gagne]

I think you need to first deside if you want a bird dog or a hound, it takes extremely different skills in a dog for each sport. I really don't think you would find a dog all ready trained for both, so you would have to train your own pup if you were determind to have the same dog try both.

[Pixel Shooter]

you got me stumped in respect to birding / cougar dog as a all in one...... although I did see my first black german shepard pheasant hunting this year, was actually quite decent lol.............. sorry, no suggestions here.

Im a lab guy and spend a ton of time training, dont think I could ever make my labs into an effective cougar dog, then again just on temperment alone, would never try. Dont think they or should say mine would make it as a cougar dog lol. If you decide on strictly a bird dog, have a litter of 10 black puppies that hit the ground xmas day ....

lots of great breeds out there, good luck in your search!

[pikergolf]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'd bet you could get one of the versatile breed to run cats without even half trying.

[aulrich]

In theory the answer is maybe,

on paper many of the Versatiles have tracking as part of their breed profile My Large Munsterlander would be one of them. In Germany running boar and deer would be expected as well as pointing upland birds, rabbits and waterfowl work. But the kicker is that with North American lines running big game has been de-emphasized, so you may have to go to europe to get the dog that has right breeding. Not that LM's can't track I met a guy over the holidays that is a CO in BC and uses his LM to track and recover big game and he is very pleased in general with the dogs tracking ability. And I can say with mine I had an esay time training him to retieve from a sent trail so the tracking ability is still strong. Baying would be the behavior issue, I would wonder about, mine is very quiet.

http://issuu.com/dogwilling/docs/poi...-inside/27?e=0

But this is where the Cat guys can chime in, but I am under the impression you need more than one dog for cats. and if you have to have a pack to get into the game then I would be having a specialist cat dog or two and a v-dog.


German Wire Hair(GWP) or better a DD would be on the list too as possibilities.

[Gagne]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'd bet you could get one of the versatile breed to run cats without even half trying.

Without even half trying eh? I wonder why so many people go through outfitters to get them selfs cats when they could just pull old rover off the couch and put one up them self with ease?

Now my old man had a king collie he trained to run raccoons, so yes it is possible to train any breed or mix of dog to do a job it was not really bread to do, but in this case the 2 jobs are so different I don't think it would work out. It's like trying to train a person to be a long distance runner and for a strong man comp at the same time. Just my 2 cents.

[Aventura]

I was thinking the 2 different applications wouldn't mix well but
thought I'd ask.

I'll need to do alot of research on my own and get some experience.

But thanks again for at least getting me started to all who posted.

[Versatile]

an Airedale will be your best bet to do both. There is a guy on VersatileDogs.com that has some great dogs he uses for everything from birds to boar.

IMO its 2 different types of hunting that needs 2 totally different kinds of dogs.

If you want a bird dog buy a bird dog, if you want a cat dog buy a couple cat dogs. But your not going to find a dog that can do both well.

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

Bird Dogs are a beautiful thing!

Many breeds can be versatile. To truly delve into the acquisition, training and mastery of gun dogs is beyond the scope of this post. It is a vast subject and there is much to know.

I am commenting here to state that, unless the dog is leashed (or perhaps extremely well trained to stay close) and used for tracking purposes only, not treeing then a single dog is insufficient for running Cougar. Really, it is risky for a single Dog. At least four dogs should be used as most Cougars will kill a single Dog or more. A pack will overwhelm most Cougar's instinct to fight and instead result in the Cougar running and eventually, ending up in a tree. Yet even when run in larger numbers, it is still not entirely uncommon for a Cougar to choose to fight. Many good Dogs are lost this way every year.

Another thing regarding any Dog(s) is that Hunting seasons are relativley short. It is important to choose an animal that will fit in with one's Family and Lifestyle during the off season. It is imparative to ask oneself question such as -

Will the Dog(s) live indoors with me/the Family or be living outside in a kennel/dog house/run area?

What environment will the animal spend most of its time - City apartment, house, rural acreage?

What other people are involved in the decision to get the animal, will it be a single person's pet or a Family Dog? Does the dog need to be around other animals and/or children?

Will the Bird Hunting be mostly Upland or Waterfowl, or small game? I know versatility is desired, yet all of either have a preferrance initially or due to other factors will tend to focus a bit more on one aspect than another. Being honest with ones self and asking questions such as these can be a great way to help choose a breed.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

Without even half trying eh? I wonder why so many people go through outfitters to get them selfs cats when they could just pull old rover off the couch and put one up them self with ease?

Now my old man had a king collie he trained to run raccoons, so yes it is possible to train any breed or mix of dog to do a job it was not really bread to do, but in this case the 2 jobs are so different I don't think it would work out. It's like trying to train a person to be a long distance runner and for a strong man comp at the same time. Just my 2 cents.

I think you are missing the point of versatile dogs. Collies are not a versatile dog, sorry. Versatile dogs fall under the pointer, setter and spaniel breeds. IMO I know that I could get my GSP to track cats with little effort, or even other large game species, with little effort, 3 days and she'd know what to do. (If im wrong within the versatile dog breeds let me know)

For tracking cats it would take me more effort to find a track then it would to get my dog to cut it and follow it.

[Dacotensis]

You guys are missing the point that the op was mtnmidget loopy castor.
Typical asinine threads.
But don't despair for the guys who actually are entertained by the red headed fisherman. He's already back under a different name.
More ridiculous threads will be up in short order.

[JRsMav]

thanks for pointing that out D.

anyone able to fill a guy in why this 'mtngiant' keeps getting banned?

I do recall seeing a thread he made about his 'part wolf dog'. I laughed hard that day. What some guys believe when they get a hound is unreal.

[winger7mm]

Everyone is gonna have there favorite breed/s thats a given. In my personal experience I can tell you GSP is the way to go. The only down fall to the breed is when you are hunting ducks over water in late november/december. But that is solved simply by a neoprene vest and a sitting platform. There isnt much if anything in alberta where legally a dog can be there that my dog cant do. Shes a natural and one hell of a dog. At the current moment my only complaint (if I can call it that) is she is daunted by retrieving geese. Snow geese or lessers shes okay with but the general size of a large greater canada has her wondering (wth am I supposed to do with this lol) With that being said shes only a couple months past 2 years of age. Once she fills out and finishes off her growing we will be working on picking up and retrieving these large birds. Anyways you can figure out im pro GSP, and personally I cant wait till we buy our house and can support having one or 3 more. They are wicked dogs

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

You guys are missing the point that the op was mtnmidget loopy castor.
Typical asinine threads.
But don't despair for the guys who actually are entertained by the red headed fisherman. He's already back under a different name.
More ridiculous threads will be up in short order.

Damnit! wanting a hunting dog and some pointers is by far from an asinine thread sucks the OP isnt sincere in his want for a hunting dog (if its who is claimed to be)

[JRsMav]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

Everyone is gonna have there favorite breed/s thats a given. In my personal experience I can tell you GSP is the way to go. The only down fall to the breed is when you are hunting ducks over water in late november/december. But that is solved simply by a neoprene vest and a sitting platform. There isnt much if anything in alberta where legally a dog can be there that my dog cant do. Shes a natural and one hell of a dog. At the current moment my only complaint (if I can call it that) is she is daunted by retrieving geese. Snow geese or lessers shes okay with but the general size of a large greater canada has her wondering (wth am I supposed to do with this lol) With that being said shes only a couple months past 2 years of age. Once she fills out and finishes off her growing we will be working on picking up and retrieving these large birds. Anyways you can figure out im pro GSP, and personally I cant wait till we buy our house and can support having one or 3 more. They are wicked dogs

I love the idea of GSP's as wonderful all round hunters. Its nice to see an owner that actually admits that his dog has trouble in the late season over water and with larger birds. Most guys (like any fan of a breed) will state that their mutt can do ANYTHING. Other than the slight limitations of a GSP I would have went with one myself. I have however seen two GSP's fold the tent in exactly the situation you highlighted......late October, over a body of water with ice, targeting big late season honkers. They just aren't made for our kind of cold with our size of birds. If I wasn't a hardcore Goose guy, especially late season I wouldn't have gone with my Chesapeake. Its pretty re-assuring when you see a 6 month old pup breaking ice on his own accord in early march just because it looks like a fun thing to do. With that being said, chessies are not fleet footed nor are they light on their feet, and don't quite have the nose that a golden or GSP has. They are big bird retrievers made for cold weather through and through. My mutt im sure would fail miserably for the hardcore upland guy.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

I love the idea of GSP's as wonderful all round hunters. Its nice to see an owner that actually admits that his dog has trouble in the late season over water and with larger birds. Most guys (like any fan of a breed) will state that their mutt can do ANYTHING. Other than the slight limitations of a GSP I would have went with one myself. I have however seen two GSP's fold the tent in exactly the situation you highlighted......late October, over a body of water with ice, targeting big late season honkers. They just aren't made for our kind of cold with our size of birds. If I wasn't a hardcore Goose guy, especially late season I wouldn't have gone with my Chesapeake. Its pretty re-assuring when you see a 6 month old pup breaking ice on his own accord in early march just because it looks like a fun thing to do. With that being said, chessies are not fleet footed nor are they light on their feet, and don't quite have the nose that a golden or GSP has. They are big bird retrievers made for cold weather through and through. My mutt im sure would fail miserably for the hardcore upland guy.

With Dakota I KNOW shed tread ice no problem, she has a deep respect for what I want in the field. Its only by my personal choices I dont run her in the cold and wet, shes a short hair!!! Her belly is still damn near pink!!! When we are in the laydown blind shes got a nice base to lay on and is wrapped in a sleeping bag to keep her warm. But as the years go on and she loses her teenager f-you attitude shes gonna be out on those late season duck hunts. Shes one hell of an upland bird dog, we are working on shed antlers, she can trail deer (which has been proven and stopped) shes treed a cat on her own and she has no problem launching off a boat to retrieve ducks. Best part is she loves sitting on the couch with me tucked in and arm wrapped around She is my first hunting dog, and first (self-owned dog, not something the parents bought and im to take care of, my dog, She is MY dog) Dog. I wouldnt trade her for a million bucks tomorrow. Love that girl and she loves me back just the same. Loyal, super smart, fine with running all day or just sittin on the couch all day, what more could you ask for. Again my vote is for GSP

[JRsMav]

that's awesome man. Ya I didn't mean any of my post as a shot at your GSP by any means! You're right, they are short haired to the truest. Great dogs though!

[Gagne]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

I think you are missing the point of versatile dogs. Collies are not a versatile dog, sorry. Versatile dogs fall under the pointer, setter and spaniel breeds. IMO I know that I could get my GSP to track cats with little effort, or even other large game species, with little effort, 3 days and she'd know what to do. (If im wrong within the versatile dog breeds let me know)

For tracking cats it would take me more effort to find a track then it would to get my dog to cut it and follow it.

When did I ever say a collie is a versatile dog? Sorry. I was simply using that as a example of you can train any type of dog to do what ever job you want. You could train a pug to retrieve ducks if you really tried, but how good a job of it could they really do.

Seeing as you claim you can train your gsp so easily in 3 days let's make a date next weekend. I'll give you the hole week to train. I'll leave my hounds in the truck and put you on a cat track. You could show me how it's done.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by JRsMav

that's awesome man. Ya I didn't mean any of my post as a shot at your GSP by any means! You're right, they are short haired to the truest. Great dogs though!

PM sent and no hard feelers at all

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

When did I ever say a collie is a versatile dog? Sorry. I was simply using that as a example of you can train any type of dog to do what ever job you want. You could train a pug to retrieve ducks if you really tried, but how good a job of it could they really do.

Seeing as you claim you can train your gsp so easily in 3 days let's make a date next weekend. I'll give you the hole week to train. I'll leave my hounds in the truck and put you on a cat track. You could show me how it's done.

If I wasnt 1 1/2-2 hours from the nearest cat track Id take you up on your bet and raise. I have a life and I cant take that much time off. Unless you want to pay for the lost time at work, then heck yea Id take the offer. Also im not saying I can "show you how its done" All i was saying is a collie is NOT a versatile breed. I know my dog can run a cat, she did that one her own with out any direction over 2 miles at a few months over a year old on her own. This isnt a post about whose dog is better then whose dog (but glad you are so selfconscience you went that way) I know my dogs skills and thats what matters.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

When did I ever say a collie is a versatile dog? Sorry. I was simply using that as a example of you can train any type of dog to do what ever job you want. You could train a pug to retrieve ducks if you really tried, but how good a job of it could they really do.

Seeing as you claim you can train your gsp so easily in 3 days let's make a date next weekend. I'll give you the hole week to train. I'll leave my hounds in the truck and put you on a cat track. You could show me how it's done.

The thing about versatile is they are BRED to do all, hence the versatile name.

[Gagne]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

If I wasnt 1 1/2-2 hours from the nearest cat track Id take you up on your bet and raise. I have a life and I cant take that much time off. Unless you want to pay for the lost time at work, then heck yea Id take the offer. Also im not saying I can "show you how its done" All i was saying is a collie is NOT a versatile breed. I know my dog can run a cat, she did that one her own with out any direction over 2 miles at a few months over a year old on her own. This isnt a post about whose dog is better then whose dog (but glad you are so selfconscience you went that way) I know my dogs skills and thats what matters.

No need to take time of work any day off I can get you on a track, and when did I say anything about whose dogs is better than who? I just want to see this great dog that can run and tree it's own cat with 3 days trainning.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

No need to take time of work any day off I can get you on a track, and when did I say anything about whose dogs is better than who? I just want to see this great dog that can run and tree it's own cat with 3 days trainning.

She ran her own cat and treed on a day of training to find shed antlers. That she did all on her lonesome. Which with a few days of training her to let her know what those scents mean a %100, 3 days shell know and understand what those scents mean.

[Gagne]

Originally Posted by winger7mm

She ran her own cat and treed on a day of training to find shed antlers. That she did all on her lonesome. Which with a few days of training her to let her know what those scents mean a %100, 3 days shell know and understand what those scents mean.

Let's see some pics or something of this cat with your dog. So you drive a hour and a half to train your dog?

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

No need to take time of work any day off I can get you on a track, and when did I say anything about whose dogs is better than who? I just want to see this great dog that can run and tree it's own cat with 3 days trainning.

With the nearest track about 100-150km away one way, gonna have to take time off work to show the dog and get her to fully realize what the scent means. I never said i could show my dog a random cat track and be like "heres a track ill follow you for the next 4 miles untill you put the cat in the tree" She tracked a cat without snow all on her own, over the course of 2 1/2 miles and treed it. She had no rhyme or reason to follow the track other then her own will. Training her that a cat is what we are after and getting her to follow a track, no problems, few days.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

Let's see some pics or something of this cat with your dog. So you drive a hour and a half to train your dog?

Uhohhhh, here we go, The pics or it didnt happen BS 'enter slow clap'. Im not here to prove anything. I know what my dog is capable of and its simple as that. I know what my dog can and cant do, or can do but very reluctantly do it. Its not an internet im better then you and you suck. Im stating that I know what my dog CAN and CANT do. Im not ashamed that my dog struggles with greaters, or a very lively and barely wounded goose. Shes a little over 2 years old what can I expect??? But her nose is second to none. What do you want from me??? To let out my untrained dog and hope for hell she can tree a cat I could ask the same of your dogs to pick up and track a bird. It wouldnt take more then 3 days to train your dogs what a bird scent is and means, getting them to not flush though may take longer.

[winger7mm]

Originally Posted by Gagne

Let's see some pics or something of this cat with your dog. So you drive a hour and a half to train your dog?

Training her on shed antlers yes, I dont have interest in running my dog for sheds in or near lethbridge, thats not where I hunt big game. I use shed training as a training session for the dog and as a scout mission of my hunting area.

[JRsMav]

now now fellas.....no peeing matches ehre. I think what winger is trying to say is pretty much what you both are saying....that yes any dog really can be trained to do anything. However, a good cat specific hound will run circles over any other sporting breed if you did a cat hunt. Wingers GSP im sure would run circles over any cat hound or retriever while out hunting upland and pheasants. A guys lab or chessie would run circles while out for geese etc etc. Sure many dog breeds can do double or triple duty, but a specialist dog will always take the cake in that specific trade.