Hunting dogs or dogs hunting??

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

"Don't your hounds give you an unfair advantage?" no they do not. it is legal to hunt cats with hounds, it is not legal to hunt sheep with sheep dogs....lol

I thought that you could'nt have a dog present with you ANYTIME when hunting any big game in alberta ,except for cougars???

We had an antelope hunt this fall and left our Spaniel at home instead of taking him with us, incase ran into some pheasant or Grouse!!!

[Tundra Monkey]

Nait Hadya,

If you were camping in an area that was known to hold grizzly bear, would you be more comfortable sleeping with a dog outside the tent or not??

tm

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

cougars???

not really "big game".....*******

tm

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

Nait Hadya,

If you were camping in an area that was known to hold grizzly bear, would you be more comfortable sleeping with a dog outside the tent or not??

tm

Why would he care when He has his 300 WBY Mag Right beside him,plus if your afraid of bears you should'nt be in the bush.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

Nait Hadya,

If you were camping in an area that was known to hold grizzly bear, would you be more comfortable sleeping with a dog outside the tent or not??

tm

No placebo needed here.

[Dark Wing]

If guys are claiming that dogs will alert hunters that game animals are in the area then maybe they should ban horses as well. Have you ever watched how Man Tracker uses his horses senses to locate prey. My self personally I think dogs would reduce my chances of having a successful hunt. I see a lot less game in the spring when I take my muts shed hunting.

[Tundra Monkey]

lol Junkie....got nothing to do with being afraid of them. It's got everything to do with respecting the power they have. I also have a family that requires my attention so safety is a concern of mine.

"What a fantastic day we had....humped our butts all over the mountain but no sheep....hit the hay hard just after midnight"....that won't be the last entry in my journal

tm

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

Nait Hadya,

If you were camping in an area that was known to hold grizzly bear, would you be more comfortable sleeping with a dog outside the tent or not??

tm

No.... i'd still have to get out of the bag and deal with the bear. just beacuse a k9 alerts you to the problem,doesn't mean problem solved. if you fellows have had your k9s chase bears from camp, i'd like to hear the tales...lol

so,pack dog a.k.a. early warning system, still no validity...

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

lol Junkie....got nothing to do with being afraid of them. It's got everything to do with respecting the power they have. I also have a family that requires my attention so safety is a concern of mine.

"What a fantastic day we had....humped our butts all over the mountain but no sheep....hit the hay hard just after midnight"....that won't be the last entry in my journal

tm

The Dog might alert you,but dog or not,if a bear has made his decision to attack,he will attack.The Toughest dog in the world wont save you.

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

No.... i'd still have to get out of the bag and deal with the bear. just beacuse a k9 alerts you to the problem,doesn't mean problem solved. if you fellows have had your k9s chase bears from camp, i'd like to hear the tales...lol

so,pack dog a.k.a. early warning system, still no validity...

I don't know about that. I've seen a few documentries from up North in polar bear country were dogs made the difference between life and death.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Can you show one verified example of someone being charged with allowing their dog to harass wildlife??

Or is this your proof:

"I've never heard anyone say that they'd call it in though but it does happen."
__________________

I looked but I soon realized that it's doubtful that I'll find a particular case of someone being charged with their dog running at large or harassing wildlife (two different offences) because only a summary offence ticket is issued to the owner. Unless you know of a site that keeps stats on how many tickets were issued for littering, loitering, jaywalking, having an unlicensed dog, etc, etc.

I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that someone would be charged with it though. They are laws and are enforced if it is reported to the proper authorities. It's a fairly common issue out in the country.

What is your point? That the laws don't exist or they do but are not enforced?

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

"Don't your hounds give you an unfair advantage?" no they do not. it is legal to hunt cats with hounds, it is not legal to hunt sheep with sheep dogs....lol

Nait I must admit that your arguements have made me look at dogs in an entirely new light. I had no idea the danger they posed to wildlife and the unfair advantages they offered to hunters. I am going to change my resolution to read "All dogs used for hunting in Alberta should be banned" It only seems fair and the best thing for our wildlife

Not sure where you jumped the shark nait....but it was definitely several posts ago......

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

The Dog might alert you,but dog or not,if a bear has made his decision to attack,he will attack.The Toughest dog in the world wont save you.

It has nothing to do with the dog being tough. The only time my dog is tied up is at night.....and it's within a few metres of the tent. It will alert me if there is a bear present far sooner than it coming through my tent. I have only had two trips into the McKenzie Mts. in the last 8yrs where we did not have a grizz show up in camp and we saw two on one of these trips.

SH mentioned that his dog will not bark if it sees a bear....Mine will. We got her already exposed and trained out of Alaska. When I'm awake she will alert me by "hoofing"....very similar to a bear. If I am sleeping she will wake me with a bark that would wake the dead......it is hair raising. She goes freakin' nutz.

A bear is trying to sneak or "stalk" its way into camp. It in no way wants its presence announced. I have never had any issues or been put at what I would consider a risk in dealing with any of the encounters I've had with bears due solely to the early detection by my dog.

tm

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I don't know about that. I've seen a few documentries from up North in polar bear country were dogs made the difference between life and death.

I would say that more than 60% of the polar bear hunts I've dealt with have ended with with the bear being shot in camp.

They usually have 11 - 15 dogs in camp.

tm

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

They usually have 11 - 15 dogs in camp

That's allot of bait to attract a polar bear isn't it?

[Tundra Monkey]

Dogs eat seal

tm

[Dark Wing]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

I would say that more than 60% of the polar bear hunts I've dealt with have ended with with the bear being shot in camp.

They usually have 11 - 15 dogs in camp.

tm

Did the dogs alert the camp that the bear was there?

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

It has nothing to do with the dog being tough. The only time my dog is tied up is at night.....and it's within a few metres of the tent. It will alert me if there is a bear present far sooner than it coming through my tent. I have only had two trips into the McKenzie Mts. in the last 8yrs where we did not have a grizz show up in camp and we saw two on one of these trips.

SH mentioned that his dog will not bark if it sees a bear....Mine will. We got her already exposed and trained out of Alaska. When I'm awake she will alert me by "hoofing"....very similar to a bear. If I am sleeping she will wake me with a bark that would wake the dead......it is hair raising. She goes freakin' nutz.

A bear is trying to sneak or "stalk" its way into camp. It in no way wants its presence announced. I have never had any issues or been put at what I would consider a risk in dealing with any of the encounters I've had with bears due solely to the early detection by my dog.

tm

Mine will definitely wake us up......knowledge that a bear is near is power for sure. My pup is still young and right now he needs to know that barking is off limits for all game. As he comes to better understand the differences between animals, I may actually encourage him to bark if a bear is near camp. I don't see it as a bad thing. Right now he just doesn't understand the differences...but with the more bears we encounter, the better he is understanding. Out hunting, he would never be permitted to bark...in camp...for sure.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Nait I must admit that your arguements have made me look at dogs in an entirely new light. I had no idea the danger they posed to wildlife and the unfair advantages they offered to hunters. I am going to change my resolution to read "All dogs used for hunting in Alberta should be banned" It only seems fair and the best thing for our wildlife

Not sure where you jumped the shark nait....but it was definitely several posts ago......

Typical overreaction in an attempt to discredit an argument for which you have no reasonable counter.

I actually chuckled when you said you were looking at the "big picture".

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Did the dogs alert the camp that the bear was there?

lol...I would venture to say yes. Unless it was the guy up on the pressure ridge with the swarovskis that sees it first

I have one example from a guy who hunted grizz with us 5 years ago. The year prior he was on a polar bear hunt (not with us). Czech guy that always brought a Nalgene bottle of pear schnapps or something like that....95%alc. After camp got set up he asked the guide and helper if they'd like a drink. They did. One guy drank the top half and the other the bottom. Needless to say, out like a light. The bear came through the tent and broke the clients nose. He woke up and shot the bear 3 times with a 300wmag....Blaser autoloader. The guides woke up to the shots and in his broken english "there was some confusion".

So no....dogs don't always work. I still sleep with my rifle on safe.

tm

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Typical overreaction in an attempt to discredit an argument for which you have no reasonable counter.

I actually chuckled when you said you were looking at the "big picture".

You can't have it both way FC......we already have dogs being used for hunting with far less restriction than pack dogs would have......seems a pretty rational reaction to me.... Glad I made you laugh....that was my intention.....pointing out how rediculous opposing pack dogs is while utilizing hounds is good for a laugh no doubt.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You can't have it both way FC......we already have dogs being used for hunting with far less restriction than pack dogs would have......seems a pretty rational reaction to me.... Glad I made you laugh....that was my intention.....pointing out how rediculous opposing pack dogs is while utilizing hounds is good for a laugh no doubt.

It has been both ways forever in Alberta. For some reason it was decided that it was unreasonable to pursue big game animals with dogs in this province and that the easiest way to address enforcement would be to disallow hunters of big game from being accompanied by dogs. Should you want the law changed you can approach from one of two angles - change the perception that the use of dogs in big game hunting is wrong, or address the enforcement aspect in the determination of what does and does not constitute use of a dog for hunting so that it is easily and consistently interpreted by both those going afield and those doing the enforcement. Saying "I want to take my dog along because other people get to and MY dog will cause no harm" is certainly not the "big picture" and is hardly justification for a change to the law. IMO the bear aspect is a garden path.

[Skinnydipper]

The way I see it is that anyone using the excuse of unfair advantage has never spent any time away from flat land and has most certainly never chased sheep at all. Lack of awareness leads to posts that lack in comprehension......wow!! I might even use a stronger word like nieve

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

be honest, what your asking for is an unfair advantage over other hunters. staying within the current law by not allowing to chase etc does not prevent the canine from assisting you in hunting game animals.

to "not allow" is complied with by simply saying no. whether your dog listens or not doesn't really matter does it? it doesn't say prevent does it?

how do sheep react to a large canine in their visual range? do they bunch tightly together and stay put? seeing a canine across the valley may cause them to delay their flight from a hunter allowing someone else in the group to easily approach to within shooting range? while the canine sits harmlessly by his master.

wow......are you serious??? this post HAS to be a joke. please tell me its a joke.....please....

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Typical overreaction in an attempt to discredit an argument for which you have no reasonable counter.

geez vin...thats how i would describe your post as well.

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

No.... i'd still have to get out of the bag and deal with the bear. just beacuse a k9 alerts you to the problem,doesn't mean problem solved. if you fellows have had your k9s chase bears from camp, i'd like to hear the tales...lol

so,pack dog a.k.a. early warning system, still no validity...

wasnt in a camp, but if im remembering the story right, whitetailsheds has some experience with a grizzly in his yard. i think it was him.....if it is grant, maybe give these guys the story?

Originally Posted by FCLightning

It has been both ways forever in Alberta. For some reason it was decided that it was unreasonable to pursue big game animals with dogs in this province and that the easiest way to address enforcement would be to disallow hunters of big game from being accompanied by dogs. Should you want the law changed you can approach from one of two angles - change the perception that the use of dogs in big game hunting is wrong, or address the enforcement aspect in the determination of what does and does not constitute use of a dog for hunting so that it is easily and consistently interpreted by both those going afield and those doing the enforcement. Saying "I want to take my dog along because other people get to and MY dog will cause no harm" is certainly not the "big picture" and is hardly justification for a change to the law. IMO the bear aspect is a garden path.

Either that it's yet another of the outdated laws that came with the original Wildlife Act. Back in 1911 or whatever, I'm sure backpack hunting was not overly prevelant and grizzlies were dealt with in more lethal manners. I seriously doubt it had much to do with pack dogs and more to do with hounds.

I do want to change the law but I think I'll follow my own path but thanks for the advice...I'll give it the consideration it deserves.

[blackmamba]

I think having a pack dog is a great idea !! specially for those people that do most of there hunting alone . I know i ve spent many of nights by myself in the mountains and in prime grizz country and have often said , it would be nice to have my dog with me , just for peace of mind !! Its not that im scared by bears but they have my respsect hands down ...

having a well trained dog is the other key , and I can see the views of those people that feel hunting with dogs is wildlife harrasment cause we dont need dogs running around the country side chasing our critters ...

jackson and buster.jpg

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[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

No placebo needed here.

lol....I don't think you're taking a placebo.

tm

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Either that it's yet another of the outdated laws that came with the original Wildlife Act. Back in 1911 or whatever, I'm sure backpack hunting was not overly prevelant and grizzlies were dealt with in more lethal manners. I seriously doubt it had much to do with pack dogs and more to do with hounds.

I do want to change the law but I think I'll follow my own path but thanks for the advice...I'll give it the consideration it deserves.

four your records,i'm not against it. as my first post stated,be honest. if i follow sheep trails with my hound (perfect pack/protection breed) he will in very short order learn what we are doing (hunting) and will communicate to me their proximity. in fact, he would probably lead me right to the sheep.

what i have seen of yukon sheep hunting is wide open treeless country where game is visible and a dog would provide no advantage. no so here in alberta.JMHOCO

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

four your records,i'm not against it. as my first post stated,be honest. if i follow sheep trails with my hound (perfect pack/protection breed) he will in very short order learn what we are doing (hunting) and will communicate to me their proximity. in fact, he would probably lead me right to the sheep.

what i have seen of yukon sheep hunting is wide open treeless country where game is visible and a dog would provide no advantage. no so here in alberta.JMHOCO

Apparently you haven't seen much of the Yukon.....

[Zippbuster]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

four your records,i'm not against it. as my first post stated,be honest. if i follow sheep trails with my hound (perfect pack/protection breed) he will in very short order learn what we are doing (hunting) and will communicate to me their proximity. in fact, he would probably lead me right to the sheep.

what i have seen of yukon sheep hunting is wide open treeless country where game is visible and a dog would provide no advantage. no so here in alberta.JMHOCO

...that treeless Yukon with buckbrush and spruce clonin patches and rock outcroppings and spires and peaks, lots of jumble rock and rolling terraine and thats above 5000ft.....not anywhere near as tough to hunt as Alberta.....I just got back from a cord of firewwod and a coyote hunt (messed up the stalk) and I had both my dishonest dogs with me....they haven't seen that coyote yet....some faithful and obedient advantage they are.