Sheep Part 3

[ishootbambi]

here is what i mean....and a look at how the square works if you have never seen it.

[SLH]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I was referring to legally registered sheep SLH.

This fellow actually e-mailed me a picture of this ram when he shot it and to say he was over the top with excitement and pride would be a gross understatement. He hunted sheep hard for a number of years and his hard work finally paid off. I find it a little disconcerting that a bunch of armchair experts are belittling and bashing him when all they have seen is a picture of the ram. Some have gone so far as to question the knowledge of the officer that registered it. The guy worked hard for the ram.....it was legally registered...I say congratulations.

So you're saying that this picture is wholly decieving and inaccurate as a representation of what this ram really is. If that is the case I apologize for my criticism legal is legal!!

I doubt you have another picture of this ram so I won't ask but if that was the representative picture of this animal my comments stand.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Your contributing to this discusion how?

By adding a dose of reality to the conjecture and circle talk being bantied about.

Originally Posted by SLH

So you're saying that this picture is wholly decieving and inaccurate as a representation of what this ram really is. If that is the case I apologize for my criticism legal is legal!!

I doubt you have another picture of this ram so I won't ask but if that was the representative picture of this animal my comments stand.

I'm saying that a representative of the Crown deemed the sheep legal...who am I to argue. He physically looked at the ram...I didn't so what would motivate me to belittle what this hunter did? As I said, I offered the hunter my heart-felt congratulations!

[SLH]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm saying that a representative of the Crown deemed the sheep legal...who am I to argue. As I said, I offered the hunter my heart-felt congratulations!

Again if this picture is not an accurate representation of this ram then legal is legal.

If not we as hunters have to be critical of both parties involved. Excitement, pride and hard work doesn't make a difference if a mistake was made by harvesting this ram.

Originally Posted by SLH

Again if this picture is not an accurate representation of this ram then legal is legal.

If not we as hunters have to be critical of both parties involved. Excitement, pride and hard work doesn't make a difference if a mistake was made by harvesting this ram.

I have no idea about the accuracy of the representation. What I do know is that the guy work his butt off, judged the sheep legal, shot it and then F&W registered it. For me, that equates to offering congratulations to a fellow hunter.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by chicken

@Sheep Guide
Shouldn't it be the hunters responsibilty to know if the sheep is legal or not?
There is NO barely legal or just legal.

You are totaly correct chicken, them may not be the best choice of words but what I was meaning is a ram that is legal but right at or very near the line.

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Why would I report a legally registered ram?

What about the ones that are kicked off the side of the mountain?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I have no idea about the accuracy of the representation. What I do know is that the guy work his butt off, judged the sheep legal, shot it and then F&W registered it. For me, that equates to offering congratulations to a fellow hunter.

This is right it was legal and that is that, but I think what we are all missing is that the legal horn maybe the off horn we cant see. They may not have judged that ram legal by the horn that we all can see either!

[SLH]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I have no idea about the accuracy of the representation. What I do know is that the guy work his butt off, judged the sheep legal, shot it and then F&W registered it. For me, that equates to offering congratulations to a fellow hunter.

First off I'm a little upset at that picture and the facts that surround it so take these comments with that in mind. Your comments are the most politically correct line I've heard in a long time. I understand your hesitation to criticise a known plugged ram but when that picture hit your screen you can't tell me that what went through your mind was anything different than what has been said here. That and your proclaimed knowledge of sheep and sheep hunting makes the 200 a year comment validate any errors that may have occured in the harvest and registration of this ram.

[SLH]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

This is right it was legal and that is that, but I think what we are all missing is that the legal horn maybe the off horn we cant see. They may not have judged that ram legal by the horn that we all can see either!

Granted, I think its time to retire and relax.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

By adding a dose of reality to the conjecture and circle talk being bantied about.

Vin, did write "circle talk" instead of !!!! by mistake?

209, thanks for your input from AWS. It sure would be nice to have SRD put that in writing now.

Really guys, what is the point to this style of discussion happening here? (or the lack of style)

Now, back to your regularly programmed sheep show......

[7mmremmag]

OK this sheep topic in Alberta seems to be very heated! Maybe i dont want any part of this, I think ill just wait to hunt sheep when i book a dall hunt up north. !!! thanks for the info

[Vindalbakken]

Hey, 7mmremmag, that would be exactly what some folks are aiming for. Create enough sh1t and sheephunters will leave the mountain. Anything to get folks to quit enjoying the resource so they will have greater chances at bigger rams for clients.

Take your opportunity to go sheep hunting and enjoy it. Nevermind the naysayers.

[mad mountain mike]

Originally Posted by SLH

Second, and lets assume that it is not legal then what the hell is SRD putting a plug in that thing for. To which I've heard that they are just having to much trouble getting convictions. It shouldn't be that hard to determine that if you are in possession of a short ram you get charged and if you are a serious outdoorsmen you should pony up and take you lumps for making that mistake. I've also heard that SRD is trying to come up with a better definition of what constitutes and illegal ram so that some greasy lawyer can't get someone off on a technicality.

According to Game Warden magazine there was a guy from Stettler AB charged and convicted for shooting a short sheep in the fall of 2008. If memory serves me right he was fined 1000 bucks and lost his hunting privileges for one year

[209x50]

I'm flabbergasted by the hand wringing old ladies that post here! You gals get your way and every sheep hunter will have to have a guide with him to make the call on the legality of a sheep. Cripes! What ever happen to being a man, standing straight and tall, learning what you need to do the job and going out and doing it. If today's mother hen government has taught us anything it is there is nothing that is idiot proof. Evolution just provides a better idiot.
Tonto and Hagar I love the volunteer course, Vin told you to put up or shut up on that one. Let us know how it goes will ya?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by mad mountain mike

According to Game Warden magazine there was a guy from Stettler AB charged and convicted for shooting a short sheep in the fall of 2008. If memory serves me right he was fined 1000 bucks and lost his hunting privileges for one year

That has been the only place I can find any record of short sheep and it isn't like the magazine is crowded with them. Once again an old wives tale to make the kiddies cringe at night.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

He isnt my buddy, Lee has just done the sheep deal for many years in one of the offices that checks in the most rams and is actually a very respected CO.

That is the deal if guys knew how they are squared and that you must have a ram in profile with the bases aligned then a close ram may make it. Biggest thing when rams are that close is that if your gunna call it you had better be sure. There will always be error on both sides as long as there is the human factor.

Do you happen to have any in profile type pics of this ram Griz?

Sorry, this is the only one I've saved. Just having a little fun with your comments about Hankey. He must be retired by now. I've dealt with him a couple of times and you're right, he is a fair guy. I went to court over this one, not worth the price of a lawyer to me, argued Due Diligence, which the judge didn't buy, but let me off with a 200. fine and offered me time to pay.
Grizz

[sheepguide]

Well no matter how things go im sure we will see 209 and Vin out in the mountains pounding them hills for many days on end just like they do every year!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Sorry, this is the only one I've saved. Just having a little fun with your comments about Hankey. He must be retired by now. I've dealt with him a couple of times and you're right, he is a fair guy. I went to court over this one, not worth the price of a lawyer to me, argued Due Diligence, which the judge didn't buy, but let me off with a 200. fine and offered me time to pay.
Grizz

Sorry to hear about the situation Griz! Wasnt trying to stand up for CO's just wanted to say he wasnt some miss informed new guy or something. And I actually do beleive that he is retired now.

Was a guy last fall in the hummingbird that had the same sort of deal. Ran into a couple guys out there and they all joined up and hunted together. He was inexperienced and they got on a ram and they judged it, he shot it and when he registered it he was informed it was to short. Crappy deal for sure.
Always a few short rams every year. Some by lack of knowledge due to not having anyone to show them the ropes, some by mistake, some by guys that just dont really care to learn what they need.

I dont, know I think some sort of education would help, sure couldnt hurt. Some guys obviously think that everything that happens out there now(sheep and legality wise) is acceptable and shouldnt be improved on. But is not the majorities opinion!!!!!

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Some guys obviously think that everything that happens out there now(sheep and legality wise) is acceptable and shouldnt be improved on. But is not the majorities opinion!!!!!

Some guys like to fabricate, exaggerate, pontificate, proliferate, abrogate and stomp their feet when things don't go their way.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by vindalbakken

some guys like to fabricate, exaggerate, pontificate, proliferate, abrogate and stomp their feet when things don't go their way.

lol!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Some guys like to fabricate, exaggerate, pontificate, proliferate, abrogate and stomp their feet when things don't go their way.

Seems to me that im looking out more for the sheep and fellow hunters than myself vin. Im willing to give up holding a tag if it helps out in any way!! Im willing to take time out and spend a couple dollars if it helps inform and improve peoples knowledge of sheep hunting! Seems like you guys are more interested in the fact that you need a tag every 2 years and kill many multiple rams to be satisfied with sheep hunting. This to me is the wrong stance! That is my opinion.
You can use any amount or complexity of words to describe things and I guess that makes you better and smarter, as im just a high school drop out rig pig but you come on out in the mountains and we will see who has more knowledge out there. Oh and bring your geometry!!!!!!!!!!!

You can come also 209 and we can go up in your neck of the woods and look for all them just reaching legal 8.5 year old rams!!!

[bowhuntercam]

At this point I am unwilling to give up any of my hunting privileges, tags or opportunity especially when we cannot identify a problem. I am dead against giving up hunting opportunity to those who do not have the best interest of Alberta hunters and healthy sheep populations in mind. Managing for healthy wildlife and hunter opportunity is my priority and should be the priority of any group deciding the fate of sheep hunting in Alberta.
If there truly is a population problem then we must take the appropriate steps to mend the problem. Please identify a problem first.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by bowhuntercam

At this point I am unwilling to give up any of my hunting privileges, tags or opportunity especially when we cannot identify a problem. I am dead against giving up hunting opportunity to those who do not have the best interest of Alberta hunters and healthy sheep populations in mind. Managing for healthy wildlife and hunter opportunity is my priority and should be the priority of any group deciding the fate of sheep hunting in Alberta.
If there truly is a population problem then we must take the appropriate steps to mend the problem. Please identify a problem first.

Very well put Cam.

Tonto and Hagar I love the volunteer course

Actually I do too. Just don't make it a mandatory course that will further regulate and burden hunters and cost taxpayers or hunters hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Originally Posted by bowhuntercam

At this point I am unwilling to give up any of my hunting privileges, tags or opportunity especially when we cannot identify a problem. I am dead against giving up hunting opportunity to those who do not have the best interest of Alberta hunters and healthy sheep populations in mind. Managing for healthy wildlife and hunter opportunity is my priority and should be the priority of any group deciding the fate of sheep hunting in Alberta.
If there truly is a population problem then we must take the appropriate steps to mend the problem. Please identify a problem first.

Sounds like your Dad instilled some good values in you

Well said Cam.

[depopulator]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Seems to me that im looking out more for the sheep and fellow hunters than myself vin. Im willing to give up holding a tag if it helps out in any way!!

Will it though ? Or will it benefit a special interest group at the expense of resident opportunity. I wouldn't be so quick to submit without all the facts and information. We still have not seen any data that actually supports there is a problem in the first place. Again, who is behind these proposed resolutions to reduce resident opportunity and what is their motive - APOS, AWS, FNAWS ?

And if residents must give up opportunity, then an equal and consistent approach must be applied to the outfitters who maintain a higher success rate on harvesting sheep than residents do. Cutting allocations and putting all non-residents on draw would be a place to start, as I have no doubt these special interest groups want to participate in helping our sheep as much as we do.

[sheepguide]

No one has stated that there is a huge problem but when a guy see's places like 40 mile mountain and the mountain above harrison flats on the clearwater, the ridges in the hummingbird and canary creek, and open grassy hills above sick mans camp on the south ram , the hills behind the ranch buildings at the ya ha or the bluffs in Smith creek on the blackstone that used to hold winter populations of hundreds and are now almost void during the winter, it worries me. Maybe we are jumping the gun but to do nothing I dont beleive isnt right either.

Sure maybe a wait period isnt the best idea but most of the guys here are just trying to come up with ideas that will least affect hunters(as no one wants a draw or once in a lifetime hunt)and still possibly help our sheep herds out. We know a change is coming in the near future and that is unavoidable so why not work to minimize the change as best we can.

And maybe more sheep hunters or hunters in general that say the big problem out there is wolves and predators should do their part and help control this, not just sit around and complain that the government wont do anything about it!

I know a few guys on here would like if I would just stop posting but sheep are my life. I put more time in the off season looking at sheep than most ever put in hunting them. I know what I know. Maybe it isnt layden with 5 syllable words and has many spelling errors and hasnt been backed by any outdoor writers or biologist( they for sure know there animals but just like anything can be manipulated with funding so are usually favering a certain direction to keep that funding coming) but its my opinion on may hundreds of hours per year of being out there not googling it on these things. So like me or hate me I aint gunna slow down on this topic for anyone! No matter how threatning the couple PM's are.
SG

[Jamie]

SG.. Sometimes it's not what you say.. It's how you say it.

You are a poor ambassador for your fraternity. I suggest more leg work and less PR. Perhaps that is where your skills and experience would be appreciated.

Jamie

BTW.. Sorry if you have gotten some PM's you dont like. Personaly I like to do my stuff in public.