Number of Guide/Outfitter Tags Issued

[huntwat]

info@apos.ab.ca

email them, they will give you the info your looking for.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Birchcraft

Pad on my ignorance torkdiesel but what is an SMU?

Its called an SMA last I heard of it. Species Management Area.

So SMA #4 for antlered mule deer represents the following WMU's:
200
202
203
204
206
208
214
216
220
221
222
224
226
228
230
232
234
236
238
240
242
244
246
248
250
252
254
256
258
260
334
336
508

Because the SMA involves such a large number of wmu's, there are many WMU's where the outfitter allocations far exceed 10% of the harvest. And some that are much less than 10%

The SMU system is flawed imo. If srd can determine harvest goals by WMU, then they can allocate outfitter allocations by WMU as well. If they really wanted to.

But what does the current outfitter policy say? Is there one?

[elkhunter11]

[QUOTE=Ranger CS;3090289]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Well personally if I have 9 out of the 10 balls on the playground I think that's adequate. But if you feel you need 9 1/2 well then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
All the southern WMUs don't have any elk allocations.

Not true, outfitters get tags as far south as WMU 300, 302 etc.

How do members feel about outfitters selling their tags to residents who are willing to pay for them? It happens.

So how does a resident legally use a non resident tag?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Its called an SMA last I heard of it. Species Management Area.

So SMA #4 for antlered mule deer represents the following WMU's:
200
202
203
204
206
208
214
216
220
221
222
224
226
228
230
232
234
236
238
240
242
244
246
248
250
252
254
256
258
260
334
336
508

Because the SMA involves such a large number of wmu's, there are many WMU's where the outfitter allocations far exceed 10% of the harvest. And some that are much less than 10%

The SMU system is flawed imo. If srd can determine harvest goals by WMU, then they can allocate outfitter allocations by WMU as well. If they really wanted to.

But what does the current outfitter policy say? Is there one?

Yes deerhunter (SMA's) not (SMU's)

Thank you

I also agree the current system is flawed and should be managed by WMU !

[Ranger CS]

[QUOTE=elkhunter11;3090336]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

So how does a resident legally use a non resident tag?

I didn't say it was done legally.

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by huntwat

info@apos.ab.ca

email them, they will give you the info your looking for.

I will do so. Thanks for your assistance.

[Nordegg2]

The 10% is just a guideline, and also the maximum % of the annual allowable harvest. Apos keeps the actual % of non-resident allocations around 7%. This is to allow for fluctuations in population, witch allows a certain amount of sustainability in the outfitters business. These allocations are reviewed every 5 years and then adjusted accordingly. The outfitter nor any residents are allowed to use these permits, they are for the use of non residents and non resident aliens only. This is true to many areas of the world not just Alberta. If all the people who show jealousy and greed on this forum would take the same amount of time to educate themselves there would be no need for such long winded responses. Remember the rest of the world don't need to share their fish, turkeys, antelope, sheep etc. They share these resources just as we do. So come on people grow up!!!

[Ruger99]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

Does anyone know where one can acquire the stats providing information on the number of draw tags issued to guides/outfitters within each WMU each year?
One can obtain such information regarding resident draws on AlbertaRELM but have not been able to find stats pertaining to guide and outfitter tag numbers for the various species within each WMU. From what I am hearing G/O are getting more than their fair share.

If you call APOST they should be able to tell you everything you want to know

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Nordegg2

The 10% is just a guideline, and also the maximum % of the annual allowable harvest. Apos keeps the actual % of non-resident allocations around 7%. This is to allow for fluctuations in population, witch allows a certain amount of sustainability in the outfitters business. These allocations are reviewed every 5 years and then adjusted accordingly. The outfitter nor any residents are allowed to use these permits, they are for the use of non residents and non resident aliens only. This is true to many areas of the world not just Alberta. If all the people who show jealousy and greed on this forum would take the same amount of time to educate themselves there would be no need for such long winded responses. Remember the rest of the world don't need to share their fish, turkeys, antelope, sheep etc. They share these resources just as we do. So come on people grow up!!!

Some places do, some don't. And the ones that don't, have it right. But that's just my opinion. Call it greed or jealousy, or both. I don't give a rats azz. Growing up has SFA to do with it.
One question for you. Why should an Alberta resident have to wait up to 17 years (and growing) to get a tag for antlered moose when a non-res can get one every year?

[Ranger CS]

[QUOTE=Nordegg2;3090935]The 10% is just a guideline, and also the maximum % of the annual allowable harvest. Apos keeps the actual % of non-resident allocations around 7%. If all the people who show jealousy and greed on this forum would take the same amount of time to educate themselves there would be no need for such long winded responses.

Are you saying that APOS regulates itself?

Interesting you use the word greed.

Isn't exploiting wildlife for financial gain a better example of greed?

Residents hunt for the love and enjoyment of the sport and the outdoors.

If that is your interpretation of the meaning of greed you need a dictionary badly.

[Nordegg2]

They can't get a moose every year at home either. So they save for 17 years spend their kids college money and go hunt and are happy to do it. Go to work save your money then spend it somewhere. Or don't but then you should never take your time or money and enjoy anything out of alberta. And also where in alberta does it say that it takes 17 years and growing to draw a moose tag. Pull you head out of the sand.

[elkhunter11]

One question for you. Why should an Alberta resident have to wait up to 17 years (and growing) to get a tag for antlered moose when a non-res can get one every year?

This situation should never exist. Alberta residents should always have priority over non resident hunters. There should only be non resident allocations when Alberta residents don't have to draw a tag to hunt a given species in a specific WMU.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

This situation should never exist. Alberta residents should always have priority over non resident hunters. There should only be non resident allocations when Alberta residents don't have to draw a tag to hunt a given species in a specific WMU.

Absolutely!!!

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by Nordegg2

They can't get a moose every year at home either. So they save for 17 years spend their kids college money and go hunt and are happy to do it. Go to work save your money then spend it somewhere. Or don't but then you should never take your time or money and enjoy anything out of alberta. And also where in alberta does it say that it takes 17 years and growing to draw a moose tag. Pull you head out of the sand.

If this is the case, how do you live with your conscience, taking 17 years of savings from these poor people knowing they sacrificed their kid's education to give it to you to put in your pocket.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Nordegg2

They can't get a moose every year at home either. So they save for 17 years spend their kids college money and go hunt and are happy to do it. Go to work save your money then spend it somewhere. Or don't but then you should never take your time or money and enjoy anything out of alberta. And also where in alberta does it say that it takes 17 years and growing to draw a moose tag. Pull you head out of the sand.

WOW!!! Maybe check wmu 400 and 402 once you get your head out of your.....
And add 300 (15 yrs) and 306 (14 yrs)
It shouldn't matter as long as the wait is more than ONE year.

[Nordegg2]

If 5% of the people who post on this site on a regular basis had the brains God gave a horse apple we would be lucky. It's like reading the national enquiry. I think it's time to read a new **** show.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Nordegg2

If 5% of the people who post on this site on a regular basis had the brains God gave a horse apple we would be lucky. It's like reading the national enquiry. I think it's time to read a new **** show.

Don't let the door hit......

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by huntwat

WOW!!! Maybe check wmu 400 and 402 once you get your head out of your.....
And add 300 (15 yrs) and 306 (14 yrs)
It shouldn't matter as long as the wait is more than ONE year.

You do realize you can drive 4 hours from Edmonton and hunt bull moose every second year right ? Or 6 hours and hunt them every year ?

Is that too much work for something you love ?

Because even if there where no non resident allocations the draw times would only change by possibly 10%. So the best case would be 15-16 years instead of 17.

Or you could drive and hunt every other year, guaranteed

[MOAhunter]

I want the same rules as Saskachewan!

Non-residents should not be able obtain any tags a resident must draw for.
Oufitters should only be allowed to get over the counter general tags.

Trophy animals are a public resource and tax paying residents should have the hunting opportunity above all others.

Outfitter draw tags are nothing more than legalized theft and the system conflicts with resident hunters.

Nordeggs statements are a perfect example of how entitled these outfits have become. They actually think it's legitimate to rip off Abertan sportsmen and line their pockets doing it. I wonder if they ever ask themselves, "Do I earn an honest living?"

Whatever percent of the harvest in whatever WMU should not be the concern. I would suggest 0% of draw tags in any WMU.

[Keeleclimber]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

I want the same rules as Saskachewan!

Non-residents should not be able obtain any tags a resident must draw for.
Oufitters should only be allowed to get over the counter general tags.

Trophy animals are a public resource and tax paying residents should have the hunting opportunity above all others.

Outfitter draw tags are nothing more than legalized theft and the system conflicts with resident hunters.

Nordeggs statements are a perfect example of how entitled these outfits have become. They actually think it's legitimate to rip off Abertan sportsmen and line their pockets doing it. I wonder if they ever ask themselves, "Do I earn an honest living?"

Whatever percent of the harvest in whatever WMU should not be the concern. I would suggest 0% of draw tags in any WMU.

My family ranches 5000 acres in Sask since 1902. I've been raised ranching in west Ab. I hunt both provinces 100+days a year. Albertans DO NOT want anything to do with Sask regulations.
Unless your ok with the Indians outfitting hunts for any species, unlimited bag limits, year round, to anyone from anywhere with a checkbook, they can hunt province wide and it's perfectly legal. Airport is currently crowded with trigger happy hunters excited to bag a couple big Sask Muley's. Sask is not all roses. This thread has turned into a whole lot of whining. Back to the resident pity party and outfitter bashing hahaha

[MOAhunter]

Originally Posted by Keeleclimber

My family ranches 5000 acres in Sask since 1902. I've been raised ranching in west Ab. I hunt both provinces 100+days a year. Albertans DO NOT want anything to do with Sask regulations.
Unless your ok with the Indians outfitting hunts for any species, unlimited bag limits, year round, to anyone from anywhere with a checkbook, they can hunt province wide and it's perfectly legal. Airport is currently crowded with trigger happy hunters excited to bag a couple big Sask Muley's. Sask is not all roses. This thread has turned into a whole lot of whining. Back to the resident pity party and outfitter bashing hahaha

Never heard of the "unlimited" FN outfitting before in SK. Guess no province has it quite right. I'd still trade AB for SK regs concerning draw tags and outfitters though.

[Nordegg2]

I want. I want. Sounds like a spoiled kid in a store. Someday when you babies get what you want I hope that it is also passed with the understanding that you now do not get the privilege of hunting or fishing outside of the province you are trying so desperately to save from the outfitters. Also where in anything that I have said does it show how I feel that it is OK to "RIP" off residents and line my pockets. I simply stated that there are other people in this world whose hunting opportunities are a lot more limited than ours. And why are their opportunities limited, BECAUSE of the population. So as our population in alberta increases your opportunity decreases. Go talk to the immigration minister about policy not sit on this thread and cry about outfitters.

[MOAhunter]

Originally Posted by Nordegg2

I want. I want. Sounds like a spoiled kid in a store. Someday when you babies get what you want I hope that it is also passed with the understanding that you now do not get the privilege of hunting or fishing outside of the province you are trying so desperately to save from the outfitters. Also where in anything that I have said does it show how I feel that it is OK to "RIP" off residents and line my pockets. I simply stated that there are other people in this world whose hunting opportunities are a lot more limited than ours. And why are their opportunities limited, BECAUSE of the population. So as our population in alberta increases your opportunity decreases. Go talk to the immigration minister about policy not sit on this thread and cry about outfitters.

Nobody's wanting to save the province from outfitters, it's the draw tags that are the contentious issue here. In my preferred WMU the outfitters get the same number of MD tags that are drawn for the public. Any non resident can buy these tags and plug a trophy MD every year while I wait 7 years for the opportunity. That does sit well with me or and it wouldn't with any sane tax paying resident.
Population growth is a factor but eliminating all outfitter tags that the rest of us wait many years for would give much relief and decrease wait times dramatically in some WMU's.
If SRD is concerned about revenue loss for these non resident tags, they outght to put these tags up for public auction, I'd happily put in a bid for one when I miss my draws.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Keeleclimber

My family ranches 5000 acres in Sask since 1902. I've been raised ranching in west Ab. I hunt both provinces 100+days a year. Albertans DO NOT want anything to do with Sask regulations.
Unless your ok with the Indians outfitting hunts for any species, unlimited bag limits, year round, to anyone from anywhere with a checkbook, they can hunt province wide and it's perfectly legal. Airport is currently crowded with trigger happy hunters excited to bag a couple big Sask Muley's. Sask is not all roses. This thread has turned into a whole lot of whining. Back to the resident pity party and outfitter bashing hahaha

FN hunting has nothing to do with regulations. That is federal. Hunting private land is a provincial thing, but not hunting regs.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

Nobody's wanting to save the province from outfitters, it's the draw tags that are the contentious issue here. In my preferred WMU the outfitters get the same number of MD tags that are drawn for the public. Any non resident can buy these tags and plug a trophy MD every year while I wait 7 years for the opportunity. That does sit well with me or and it wouldn't with any sane tax paying resident.
Population growth is a factor but eliminating all outfitter tags that the rest of us wait many years for would give much relief and decrease wait times dramatically in some WMU's.
If SRD is concerned about revenue loss for these non resident tags, they outght to put these tags up for public auction, I'd happily put in a bid for one when I miss my draws.

Did you bother to read the difference between a WMU and a SMA?

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Nordegg2

I want. I want. Sounds like a spoiled kid in a store. Someday when you babies get what you want I hope that it is also passed with the understanding that you now do not get the privilege of hunting or fishing outside of the province you are trying so desperately to save from the outfitters. Also where in anything that I have said does it show how I feel that it is OK to "RIP" off residents and line my pockets. I simply stated that there are other people in this world whose hunting opportunities are a lot more limited than ours. And why are their opportunities limited, BECAUSE of the population. So as our population in alberta increases your opportunity decreases. Go talk to the immigration minister about policy not sit on this thread and cry about outfitters.

I thought you were leaving?

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

Never heard of the "unlimited" FN outfitting before in SK. Guess no province has it quite right. I'd still trade AB for SK regs concerning draw tags and outfitters though.

The reserves are federal land, so Saskatchewan would likely have a hard time trying to regulate the hunting on them, even if they wanted to.

Nobody's wanting to save the province from outfitters, it's the draw tags that are the contentious issue here. In my preferred WMU the outfitters get the same number of MD tags that are drawn for the public. Any non resident can buy these tags and plug a trophy MD every year while I wait 7 years for the opportunity. That does sit well with me or and it wouldn't with any sane tax paying resident.
Population growth is a factor but eliminating all outfitter tags that the rest of us wait many years for would give much relief and decrease wait times dramatically in some WMU's.

Exactly! Let the outfitters continue outfitting for any species in any WMU, as long as no draw is required for a resident to obtain a tag for that species in that WMU.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

You do realize you can drive 4 hours from Edmonton and hunt bull moose every second year right ? Or 6 hours and hunt them every year ? A PERFECT area for non-resident antlered bull moose hunts

Is that too much work for something you love ? So far from the point I'm making not worth my time

Because even if there where no non resident allocations the draw times would only change by possibly 10%. So the best case would be 15-16 years instead of 17. Actually, with the wait increasing every year, it probably won't make a difference. But, again not the point

Or you could drive and hunt every other year, guaranteed

...

[Ranger CS]

Originally Posted by MOAhunter

Nobody's wanting to save the province from outfitters, it's the draw tags that are the contentious issue here. In my preferred WMU the outfitters get the same number of MD tags that are drawn for the public. Any non resident can buy these tags and plug a trophy MD every year while I wait 7 years for the opportunity. That does sit well with me or and it wouldn't with any sane tax paying resident.
Population growth is a factor but eliminating all outfitter tags that the rest of us wait many years for would give much relief and decrease wait times dramatically in some WMU's.
If SRD is concerned about revenue loss for these non resident tags, they outght to put these tags up for public auction, I'd happily put in a bid for one when I miss my draws.

WMU's not SMA's should be where the 10% max non-resident quota is applied.
The same thing happens in one of the WMU's I hunt, with a very high number of outfitter tags. Following the current policy, allocating tags by SMA allows outfitters to pillage specific WMU where the they can get the best results and in doing so get a disproportionate number of tags in those areas.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Ranger CS

WMU's not SMA's should be where the 10% max non-resident quota is applied.
The same thing happens in one of the WMU's I hunt, with a very high number of outfitter tags. Following the current policy, allocating tags by SMA allows outfitters to pillage specific WMU where the they can get the best results and in doing so get a disproportionate number of tags in those areas.

There is a plan for new policies ongoing right now. Contact ESRD with your concerns. RIGHT NOW is the time.