Number of Guide/Outfitter Tags Issued

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Having an Alberta resident wait 4 years is too long, when a non resident can buy a hunt with no waiting.

I'll tell you one thing fellows, the system we have here is the envy of hunters in BC. Had a lot of discussions with hunters in BC this season who had nothing but praise for the way we do things here as compared to there. They also liked the fact that we can get an Undersubscribed tag which is unheard of in BC (at least thats what I was told).

EDIT.... I have no idea why Elk's quote is on this post. This was a "stand alone" post.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You know Deerguy, I also thought that Outfitters/Guides could not guide AB residents and got flamed for it by the ussual suspects. Turns out that they can guide AB residents as long as the resident has thier own tag.

I you resent being corrected for posting incorrect assumptions about the rules and regulations, perhaps you should do some research , before posting more of your incorrect assumptions?

EDIT.... I have no idea why Elk's quote is on this post. This was a "stand alone" post.

If my quote is in your post, it's because you selected the quote button while looking at my post.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

If I was making the same point as Huntwat I would have also quote the zone with P17 for moose. In doing so it shows how bad it really is.

Have they ever considered having residents apply for tags a year in advance. So this spring you would apply for the 2017/18 seasons. What ever is left over from the resident draws, give those tags to the outfitters along with whatever general tags. This would give the outfitters 1 year notice to sell there tag inventory and plan accordingly.

So let the outfitters have whatever tags are leftover from the resident draw a year in advance. Seems like a great idea to me. Kind of like undersubscribed tags but early so the outfitters could use them. So 450 outfitters would lose any allocations they have that are on draw (about 50-60% of their business). Then when residents apply and there are 100 November moose left over the outfitters could apply for those tags. Then try and sell a late season moose hunt in a northern WMU where they have no camp or experience hunting, should be an easy sell.
But what about the residents that are now losing out on the undersubscribed draws they used to get. That isn't fair at all for them. Now they're losing out on more opportunity ?
Draw wait times won't be reduced anyway because so many residents apply for these draws, now you want to take away their back up plan ?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by waterninja

You know Deerguy, I also thought that Outfitters/Guides could not guide AB residents and got flamed for it by the ussual suspects. Turns out that they can guide AB residents as long as the resident has thier own tag.

He meant why don't outfitters want to take residents. Not why can't they take residents WN

[elkhunter11]

So let the outfitters have whatever tags are leftover from the resident draw a year in advance. Seems like a great idea to me. Kind of like undersubscribed tags but early so the outfitters could use them.

I would gladly agree to that, if all allocations where residents have to wait to draw tags were terminated in return. If the tags are undersubscribed, it's because residents aren't applying for them. If the residents want those tags, then let them apply for those tags in the draw.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I you resent being corrected for posting incorrect assumptions about the rules and regulations, perhaps you should do some research , before posting more of your incorrect assumptions?



If my quote is in your post, it's because you selected the quote button while looking at my post.

Here we go again. Your panties are in a bunch and nowhere was your name even mentioned. I suppose your going to jump all over Deerguy also. God, I wish you would get off your high horse and stop slagging everyone who is not 100% correct about a rule or reg. It really gets tireing listening to someone who thinks they know it all.

[elkhunter11]

Here we go again. Your panties are in a bunch and nowhere was your name even mentioned.

Really?

EDIT.... I have no idea why Elk's quote is on this post. This was a "stand alone" post.

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by deerguy

How do outfitters survive in states that don't allow non res to jump the draw? Lots of states require the non res to draw tags as well, some are guaranteed every year, some take 4 years, others take 15+'years.

Also, I still don't see why outfitters can't guide residents with tags. Lots of outfitters in the US will guide their own residents. In Alberta you can't even get a reply.

Perhaps it the way I read this post but in the 2nd paragraph Deerguy asks why CAN'T outfitters guide residents, not why WON'T they guide them. I took this to mean Deerguy thought they couldn't guide residents. It's an honest mistake that I'm sure the Forum Sherriff Elkhunter11 will bring to my attention.

[waterninja]

Once again you are caught in an outright lie. I accidentally quoted you in post 271(honst mistake) but you are pretending that I used your name when I mentioned being flamed, which was in another post completly! You really must live in some fantasy world where you are God.
Anyways, I don't know why I waste any time defending myself from the make believe BS that you constantly spew on this forum.
By the way, when I referred to "the ussual suspects" who whine and complain and try to bully other members, why did you think I was referring to you? After this latest episode of post manipulation I really think you need a time out.

EDIT.. this post should have had the quote that Elkhunter11 manipulated (which I thought was against forum rules) to pretend I hurt his feelers. Ny quote button is wonky today.

[Canukanuk]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Well that is your opinion elkhunter. Every province across Canada that I know of sets aside a certain percentage of non resident tags that are on draw for residents for the outfitting industry. I don't think everybody else should be willing to share except for Alberta, but again I guess you guys don't care. You don't hunt anywhere else and you want Alberta all for yourselves.

This is one of the few times elkhunter is right. We don't need outfitters taking our game. Be honest now, did you really get a couple of fools to pay you $20,000 for an elk hunt?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Canukanuk

This is one of the few times elkhunter is right. We don't need outfitters taking our game. Be honest now, did you really get a couple of fools to pay you $20,000 for an elk hunt?

It was a moose hunt.

My rate at the time was 10K for non residents, I told them I'd take them if they paid the same rate. They wanted big moose and couldn't do it on there on. I promised them 50 inch or better Bulls and that's what they killed. They waited 6-7 years for the draw then they killed a moose of a lifetime.

Those hunters (not fools) could have shot dinker Bulls in some other area but that's not what they wanted.

[stringer]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

You don't hunt anywhere else and you want Alberta all for yourselves.

That's correct.
I've paid taxes in this province my whole adult life and should get priority over any non-resident.

Get it

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Well that is your opinion elkhunter. Every province across Canada that I know of sets aside a certain percentage of non resident tags that are on draw for residents for the outfitting industry. I don't think everybody else should be willing to share except for Alberta, but again I guess you guys don't care. You don't hunt anywhere else and you want Alberta all for yourselves.

How many Mule deer and elk tags are available for non-res in Sask?
How many elk tags are available to non-res in Manitoba?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by huntwat

How many Mule deer and elk tags are available for non-res in Sask?
How many elk tags are available to non-res in Manitoba?

Just the ones on the Indian reserves in Saskatchewan

All I know about is the moose in Manitoba, lots of those available for non residents

But if you try really really hard I'm sure you can find the worst in each province

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Well that is your opinion elkhunter. Every province across Canada that I know of sets aside a certain percentage of non resident tags that are on draw for residents for the outfitting industry. I don't think everybody else should be willing to share except for Alberta, but again I guess you guys don't care. You don't hunt anywhere else and you want Alberta all for yourselves.

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Just the ones on the Indian reserves in Saskatchewan
All I know about is the moose in Manitoba, lots of those available for non residents

But if you try really really hard I'm sure you can find the worst in each province

See the red hilites? That is YOUR statements.
Elk is NOT available in Sask or Man for non-residents.
I'm absolutely positive that Albertans would love to see ALL non-res mule deer tags to be given out on Indian reserves only.
Keep spewing your B.S., we'll separate the grain from the straw.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by huntwat

See the red hilites? That is YOUR statements.
Elk is NOT available in Sask or Man for non-residents.
I'm absolutely positive that Albertans would love to see ALL non-res mule deer tags to be given out on Indian reserves only.
Keep spewing your B.S., we'll separate the grain from the straw.

Yes. I said every province sets aside a certain percentage of tags for non residents.

Manitoba sets aside moose tags

Saskatchewan sets aside moose tags

I didn't say they set aside a certain percentage of tags for non residents for every species on draw. Please read carefully and don't jump to conclusions.

The point was every province in Canada shares !!!

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Yes. I said every province sets aside a certain percentage of tags for non residents.

Manitoba sets aside moose tags

Saskatchewan sets aside moose tags

I didn't say they set aside a certain percentage of tags for non residents for every species on draw. Please read carefully and don't jump to conclusions.

The point was every province in Canada shares !!!

And we can too. But lets keep the Antlered mule deer, Antelope and moose for residents.
Elk, WT deer Black Bear, sheep (in certain areas), Antlerless mule deer can all be available to non-res.

Unless you want to change the non-res to Indian reservations only.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by huntwat

And we can too. But lets keep the Antlered mule deer, Antelope and moose for residents.
Elk, WT deer Black Bear, sheep (in certain areas), Antlerless mule deer can all be available to non-res.

Unless you want to change the non-res to Indian reservations only.

Right. So every other province shares some of their draw tags but us ?

Seems like a great idea !!!

Pure greed driven logic.

I've made the points I wanted to, I'm done.

The system will never change enough to make you guys happy anyway, and that makes me happy

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by stringer

That's correct.
I've paid taxes in this province my whole adult life and should get priority over any non-resident.

Get it

And outfitters don't pay taxes or live here ?

Get it !

Edit... Please see above post regarding future comments, you fit right in

Get it !

[Canukanuk]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

It was a moose hunt.

My rate at the time was 10K for non residents, I told them I'd take them if they paid the same rate. They wanted big moose and couldn't do it on there on. I promised them 50 inch or better Bulls and that's what they killed. They waited 6-7 years for the draw then they killed a moose of a lifetime.

Those hunters (not fools) could have shot dinker Bulls in some other area but that's not what they wanted.

Good for you and the hunters. I could call $10,000 for a moose gouging but I won't if you guaranteed it.

It is strange that Manitoba is still selling non resident tags when their population is nearing collapse. I have a biologist friend who is working there in his third year to try and figure out what is wrong?

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Canukanuk

This is one of the few times elkhunter is right. We don't need outfitters taking our game. Be honest now, did you really get a couple of fools to pay you $20,000 for an elk hunt?

How would you know about Elk's posting history if you only joined the forum a couple days ago??? He's baaaacckkk....

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by huntwat

And we can too. But lets keep the Antlered mule deer, Antelope and moose for residents.
Elk, WT deer Black Bear, sheep (in certain areas), Antlerless mule deer can all be available to non-res.

Unless you want to change the non-res to Indian reservations only.

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Right. So every other province shares some of their draw tags but us ? Your reading ability is lacking

Seems like a great idea !!! If you could read, yes, its a GREAT idea.

Pure greed driven logic. Greed has absolutely ZERO to do with it.

I've made the points I wanted to, I'm done. You have made none, congrats.

The system will never change enough to make you guys happy anyway, and that makes me happyAny change in the residents favour will make me happy. Take away ALL non- res tags that require a res to draw will make me very happy

Happy new Year.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by hal53

How would you know about Elk's posting history if you only joined the forum a couple days ago??? He's baaaacckkk....

I was wondering what his next username would be.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

So let the outfitters have whatever tags are leftover from the resident draw a year in advance. Seems like a great idea to me. Kind of like undersubscribed tags but early so the outfitters could use them. So 450 outfitters would lose any allocations they have that are on draw (about 50-60% of their business). Then when residents apply and there are 100 November moose left over the outfitters could apply for those tags. Then try and sell a late season moose hunt in a northern WMU where they have no camp or experience hunting, should be an easy sell.
But what about the residents that are now losing out on the undersubscribed draws they used to get. That isn't fair at all for them. Now they're losing out on more opportunity ?
Draw wait times won't be reduced anyway because so many residents apply for these draws, now you want to take away their back up plan ?

A quick google search revealed in 2015 there was 123000+ resident hunters.

So why should 450 residents of Alberta have dominion over 10% of the provinces natural resource? specifically mule deer, moose, elk etc.....

If you ask anyone to enter lottery, what are better odds 1 in 450 or 9 in 123000. I'll take the 1 in 450 as would any resident hunter of Alberta

Your analogy of having 9 balls and wanting 1 more is insulting and completely wrong.

[Brock1]

Originally Posted by huntwat

Happy new Year.

HW, can you please answer this? thx


What would happen to these outfitters in these zones with draws whose livelyhood depends on those allocations that they may have worked years and years to acquire or pay off. what is your opinion on what this group of people with families and lifetimes of investment of time and money etc...Who bought property and built homes and raised their children there because their allocations were in these zones? What is your solution if your method was introduced in the draw zones in Alberta?
Do you think they should be compensated? or how should that work?

I am playing devils advocate here. I hate waiting 12 years for my antelope draw as well. But I am thinking about the families that have outfitted in these zones, and there are tons of them( zones that require draw and families that live off the income of these permits) for years and rely on this income.

Again, not saying I agree at all with how the draw system works in Ab, because it really is a joke, but you seem to have one of the strongest voices here regarding this subject and you seem to have done your research and have remained extremely calm. hence the reason I have directed this toward you so we can look at things from a different angle maybe.. the ripple effect from these methods could and would have devastating effects on many people who call outfitting wha they do for a living.

Does this concern you or no?

[Canukanuk]

Hal and Elk

Guess what? I can read, and comprehend!

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Brock1

HW, can you please answer this? thx


What would happen to these outfitters in these zones with draws whose livelyhood depends on those allocations that they may have worked years and years to acquire or pay off. what is your opinion on what this group of people with families and lifetimes of investment of time and money etc...Who bought property and built homes and raised their children there because their allocations were in these zones? Nothing in life is guaranteed. I also have raised children and invested much into my region of employment.What is your solution if your method was introduced in the draw zones in Alberta? Solution to what?
Do you think they should be compensated? No or how should that work? Such is life

I am playing devils advocate here. I hate waiting 12 years for my antelope draw as well. But I am thinking about the families that have outfitted in these zones, and there are tons of them( zones that require draw and families that live off the income of these permits) for years and rely on this income. There is (or was thanks to the NDP) other work out there.

Again, not saying I agree at all with how the draw system works in Ab, because it really is a joke, but you seem to have one of the strongest voices here regarding this subject and you seem to have done your research and have remained extremely calm. hence the reason I have directed this toward you so we can look at things from a different angle maybe.. the ripple effect from these methods could and would have devastating effects on many people who call outfitting wha they do for a living.

Does this concern you or no? No, Lots of people/families have had to change their way of making a living. Most recently the oilfield. Doesn't make it right, but not everything is forever.

To make hunting fair to the resident hunters of Alberta, some will have to lose. Unfortunately, in this case it would be the outfitters/non-res hunters.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by huntwat

To make hunting fair to the resident hunters of Alberta, some will have to lose. Unfortunately, in this case it would be the outfitters/non-res hunters.

Commercial fishing was closed down...I am sure there was some who thought that would never happen. Times change and adversity effects us all.

LC

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by huntwat

To make hunting fair to the resident hunters of Alberta, some will have to lose. Unfortunately, in this case it would be the outfitters/non-res hunters.

Are you sure you meant unfortunately? Cause it sure sounds like you're flipping them the bird with a grin.


I have to agree with Tork on this, pure selfishness. I'm in no way affiliated with outfitting either.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Are you sure you meant unfortunately? Cause it sure sounds like you're flipping them the bird with a grin.


I have to agree with Tork on this, pure selfishness. I'm in no way affiliated with outfitting either.

So how did you feel when the resident pronghorn tags were cut by over 90%, and yet the outfitter allocations were not cut at all, when the population dropped substancially? The outfitters had more tags than residents in some wmus. That wasn't about game management, it was about money. ESRD issued a token amount of tags, rather than just close the season for a year or two, so the outfitters wouldn't lose any money.