Your Idea's, to face lift our current Draw System

[Pathfinder76]

If you need the meat hunt whitetail and non trophy animals.

[recce43]

get rid of 999
10. Limit the number of successful draws, someone can obtain in a year. ( example 3 successful draws per season) agree.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by chuck

If you need the meat hunt whitetail and non trophy animals.

So only the rich can hunt , why not start up game farms then no waiting for any one just bring cash.... It's already been mentioned that unless the extra dollars go back to conservation what's the point? Another tax grab by the Ab gov. ? How high would the applications have to be to deter those applying? You know sometimes money isn't the only answer.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by super7mag

So only the rich can hunt , why not start up game farms then no waiting for any one just bring cash.... It's already been mentioned that unless the extra dollars go back to conservation what's the point? Another tax grab by the Ab gov. ? How high would the applications have to be to deter those applying? You know sometimes money isn't the only answer.

Kinda like only the rich can drink, smoke, buy gas, golf, eat out, own a smart phone, have cable tv......?

Give me a break.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

of course there is. the priority system guarantees that if you wait your turn you will get a tag. BC has complete random lottery. you could watch your hunting buddy draw 5 Roosevelt elk and a couple dalls while you never pull a single tag ever. I like the priority better, but in some cases, demand vastly outweighs supply and priority doesn't work....mostly we see it with sheep.

As far as 999 every guy that get bumped a year, another gets to jump a year . If your the average guy you won't notice a change. If your lucky -1, if your unlucky +1 . That's part of the luck factor in pulling a draw.... At least this system guarantee's that at some point you will be pulling the tag, and you can approximate the year you might! ( my original thought)

example)

13 guys, in a pool that draws 3 a year:

Year 1- A,A,B ( 1 A guy 999)
Year 2- B,B,A (A guy re enters) Guys below has NO effect on their draw times
Year 3- C,C,C
Year 4- D,D,D
Year 5- E

Year 1- A,A,B (1A guy 999)
Year 2- B,B,C
Year 3- C,C,D
Year 4- A,D,D ( A guy re enters)
Year 5- E

After trying this little model, as far as I can see. The only longer draw time, is the guy who chooses to 999. By taking the 999 approach essentially lucky guys get to move up in priority and don't get displaced. Small model, i'm sure I missed something there, maybe?



Some people have such bad luck, I wouldn't want to be in a system that doesn't guarantee me a tag at some point..... Look at 209x50 ( I believe) he's pulled 2 Cadomin ram tags here, and the endless flack he hears from people, including you , about the strings he pulled to get that. (which was sheer luck)

Lucky is lucky, but when someone is consistently lucky, and another isn't that isn't right! At least the luck in a 999 system is years not lifetimes!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Holy crap, please come down to earth!

You've mixed draws, licensing, and rules and regs under the guise of it all being draw related!

I gave my opinions at the end of my post!

Take a deep breath, compose yourself, then book an appointment with Minister McQueen.

I know I have, on more than one occasion.
She says all she gets are poorly contrived emails and letters, some of them so convoluted, and un intelligible, that she cannot even get what the issue is.

Book an appointment, bring your concerns, dress respectfully, act intelligent, and maybe some things will change.

If you step back and notice APOS runs circles around the residents because,they have the where for all and knowhow to navigate the world of politics.

Most locals only excel at whining in the coffee shop.

It's not whining, just some thinking and input seeking. I still don't know where you believe I've mixed things up. I am calm, If I was yelling I'd WRITE IN CAPS...oops...lol

[sakogreywolf]

Increase the application fees. If you are serious enough to want to hunt a particular draw species and assume the expense that goes with it, you can afford to pay an increased application fee.
If an increase in application fees is enough to make you decide that you no longer want to apply for a particular draw, you might have just been applying for the draw for the sake of applying.

[Pathfinder76]

Removing the 999 will do nothing for wait times and anyone with an IQ that outnumbers their neck size could figure a way around that anyway.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by chuck

Kinda like only the rich can drink, smoke, buy gas, golf, eat out, own a smart phone, have cable tv......?

Give me a break.

So then your saying it doesn't make a difference and we will have the same number of applicants. So which is it ?

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sakogreywolf

Increase the application fees. If you are serious enough to want to hunt a particular draw species and assume the expense that goes with it, you can afford to pay an increased application fee.
If an increase in application fees is enough to make you decide that you no longer want to apply for a particular draw, you might have just been applying for the draw for the sake of applying.

Exactly!!

[recce43]

starting to sound like ont .. 50 bucks for draws and it didnt do damn thing except line the pockets of the gov.

[slough shark]

Originally Posted by Bownsaw30

Being someone who moved from another province to here i must say waiting 1 year before being able to apply for a draw is bogus, completely unnecessary you're just attempting to limit hunters from a hunting experience for only 1 year it really makes no difference you will still eventually have to compete with that hunter for draws eventually. As for increasing the draw prices yet again a movement into "selective" hunters because where will it end 36$ a draw, 50$ a draw, 75$,so on and so on???? then maybe people like myself could only afford to put in for 1 species a year which yet again would be unfortunate. my final opinion on the Alberta draw system is that i like it honestly, you move up in a priority system, its inexpensive to increase your priority over the years and it resets after you obtain one. Now as per suggestions for the system I think it would be great if the province could post a break down of the # of tags that will be issued in each WMU as most of us live around more than one and could easily travel between 3 that way you could see where your best probablity to be drawn would be from. Thats all I cant wait to hear everyone elses thoughts on this subject.

It's a way of weeding out the people who move here for a short period of time, obtain a WIN card, and hunt Alberta under authority of a resident license for an undetermined period of time. Why should someone who worked here for 6 months be able to hunt under a resident license for the next 5 years? Regretably there is nothing built in or a way of verifying that an applicant/hunter is still an alberta resident. I would be ok nullifying this rule if in order to enter as a resident you had to enter/show a valid form of Alberta ID along with your WIN # (Alberta Drivers, Alberta ID, etc... but something provincial) something that proves you are a resident of Alberta.

[sheepguide]

I know a pile of guys that 999 many tags that They normaly would have no intention of ever hunting but since it's $3 they 999 every tag they can and then one day just apply simply because they are high priority not because it's somethIng they really want to hunt. If it wasn't for the 999 system these guys never would have pulled that tag leaving it for others that really wanted it. Take a bunch of these guys out and it will help as it frees up their tags.

[Jim]

I think that some changes should be made for who is eligible to apply for draws. I think people applying for draws should have to meet the following conditions:

1. Person must have been born in Alberta and have a current Alberta residence.
2. Person must be over 18.
3. Person must have filed an income tax return for the previous three years or be a senior who is retired.

[recce43]

I got my bull moose tag in four years just had to put it in a zone that nobody wants to hunt or travel to

[IR_mike]

Originally Posted by slough shark

It's a way of weeding out the people who move here for a short period of time, obtain a WIN card, and hunt Alberta under authority of a resident license for an undetermined period of time. Why should someone who worked here for 6 months be able to hunt under a resident license for the next 5 years? Regretably there is nothing built in or a way of verifying that an applicant/hunter is still an alberta resident. I would be ok nullifying this rule if in order to enter as a resident you had to enter/show a valid form of Alberta ID along with your WIN # (Alberta Drivers, Alberta ID, etc... but something provincial) something that proves you are a resident of Alberta.

I know of quite a few people that have not resided here in a long time with valid WIN cards.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by super7mag

So then your saying it doesn't make a difference and we will have the same number of applicants. So which is it ?

I'm saying no such thing.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by chuck

Removing the 999 will do nothing for wait times and anyone with an IQ that outnumbers their neck size could figure a way around that anyway.

It was posted earlier in the thread that almost half of the applicants in draws were 999, one I think said of 18,000 applicants 10k wee 999 ( I believe). So, just say that draw is usually a given at say a P5 in years past, which the 10k guys (some) have been watching, they got drawn last year for their 2-3 tags that they applied for years for, this year they will use their priority that has been built up thru'999, say only 2% of them, Bang!, your P5 pretty much guaranteed draw just went to a 6 or a 7... the guys that were at P4?...please move to the back of the bus.....

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by hal53

It was posted earlier in the thread that almost half of the applicants in draws were 999, one I think said of 18,000 applicants 10k wee 999 ( I believe). So, just say that draw is usually a given at say a P5 in years past, which the 10k guys (some) have been watching, they got drawn last year for their 2-3 tags that they applied for years for, this year they will use their priority that has been built up thru'999, say only 2% of them, Bang!, your P5 pretty much guaranteed draw just went to a 6 or a 7... the guys that were at P4?...please move to the back of the bus.....

Maybe not!

13 guys, in a pool that draws 3 a year:

Year 1- A,A,B ( 1 A guy 999)
Year 2- B,B,A (A guy re enters) Guys below has NO effect on their draw times
Year 3- C,C,C
Year 4- D,D,D
Year 5- E

Year 1- A,A,B (1A guy 999)
Year 2- B,B,C
Year 3- C,C,D
Year 4- A,D,D ( A guy re enters)
Year 5- E

E was destined to draw in year 5 regardless. And 3 guys got drawn before their time. While A gained 3 priority points and lost 3 years.

Just my small sample. Again I could be wrong, by missing something , but I don't think I am.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Maybe not!

13 guys, in a pool that draws 3 a year:

Year 1- A,A,B ( 1 A guy 999)
Year 2- B,B,A (A guy re enters) Guys below has NO effect on their draw times
Year 3- C,C,C
Year 4- D,D,D
Year 5- E

Year 1- A,A,B (1A guy 999)
Year 2- B,B,C
Year 3- C,C,D
Year 4- A,D,D ( A guy re enters)
Year 5- E

E was destined to draw in year 5 regardless.

Just my small sample. Again I could be wrong, by missing something , but I don't think I am.

Good numbers, but the unknown is, how many of those 10k guys that built up thru' 999 are going to jump in when they hit P5 or 6????

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

I know of quite a few people that have not resided here in a long time with valid WIN cards.

X2....a WIN card is issued and good for 5 years, is there a requirement to inform AlbertaRELM of you move out if province and cease to be a resident???

I think not....people have been putting in for our Alberta draws as residents fraudulently for many years....

Focus on these things and not eliminating the 999 option IMHO.

LC

[sheepguide]

Doesn't take many extra 999 guys in zones with low tags to make wait times shoot up drastically.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by hal53

Good numbers, but the unknown is, how many of those 10k guys that built up thru' 999 are going to jump in when they hit P5 or 6????

I don't think it matters. It just shows that 999's have longer wait times. While a few fortunate guys get bumped ahead in the process, everytime a 999 occurs. And guys at the bottom still have the same amount of wait times. If your at the bottom, the more 999 happen, the faster you might get drawn.

[super7mag]

Originally Posted by hal53

It was posted earlier in the thread that almost half of the applicants in draws were 999, one I think said of 18,000 applicants 10k wee 999 ( I believe). So, just say that draw is usually a given at say a P5 in years past, which the 10k guys (some) have been watching, they got drawn last year for their 2-3 tags that they applied for years for, this year they will use their priority that has been built up thru'999, say only 2% of them, Bang!, your P5 pretty much guaranteed draw just went to a 6 or a 7... the guys that were at P4?...please move to the back of the bus.....

Actually the odds of that happening are slim just for the simple fact a majority of the 999 guys would all have to choose the same wmu. Which is why sheep and antelope get back logged. For elk moose and mulies the system works pretty well.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I don't think it matters. It just shows that 999's have longer wait times. While a few fortunate guys get bumped ahead in the process, everytime a 999 occurs. And guys at the bottom still have the same amount of wait times. If your at the bottom, the more 999 happen, the faster you might get drawn.

not if you're a P4 in a draw that normally gets u a tag at P5, and 1,000 of the 10k guys jump in.....

[Deer Hunter]

My suggestions:
1. remove outfitter allocations on tags with significant wait times
2. remove NR opportunity from any draw tags with a significant wait times
3. Properly monitor/enforce 10% of the intended tags available to landowners
4. go on a witch hunt for people abusing the WIN system, give incentives to turn offenders in.
5. disclose and make transparent all tag and harvest data.
6. add opportunities to split up the massive draw hoard. ie bow, ML, rifle seasons within draw codes.
7. Make people only able to apply for 3 or 4 draws per year.
8. Get organized, form an effective pro Resident Hunter lobby group, or clean house on existing/ ineffective ones.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Doesn't take many extra 999 guys in zones with low tags to make wait times shoot up drastically.

When you calculate draw times, you factor in the 999 applications, to determine your draw wait time. That amount of years doesn't change throughout the process, in application year One. All that changes is 999's may speed up your draw time!

For every 999, one guys gets drawn a year sooner! When 999'er returns the sequence returns to normal, and times stay the same!

[drake]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

My suggestions:
1. remove outfitter allocations on tags with significant wait times
2. remove NR opportunity from any draw tags with a significant wait times
3. Properly monitor/enforce 10% of the intended tags available to landowners
4. go on a witch hunt for people abusing the WIN system, give incentives to turn offenders in.
5. disclose and make transparent all tag and harvest data.
6. add opportunities to split up the massive draw hoard. ie bow, ML, rifle seasons within draw codes.
7. Make people only able to apply for 3 or 4 draws per year.
8. Get organized, form an effective pro Resident Hunter lobby group, or clean house on existing/ ineffective ones.

Agree with everything except point 7. I dont see how that would benifit the majority.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by super7mag

Actually the odds of that happening are slim just for the simple fact a majority of the 999 guys would all have to choose the same wmu. Which is why sheep and antelope get back logged. For elk moose and mulies the system works pretty well.

Back logs are happening, because there is an increase in population applying draws, while Esrd are reducing tags.

If it takes 8 years to draw a tag according to stats, right now. Factoring in the 999 guys . Then the perception would be that Pool 9 guys we draw in 8 years. But in that 9th year 5000 people apply in that draw, the wait time increase. The guys in Pool 8 still have the same wait times. You have to apply to get a real wait time!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by hal53

not if you're a P4 in a draw that normally gets u a tag at P5, and 1,000 of the 10k guys jump in.....

IF they were to draw without using the 999 system, your wait time wouldn't be a 4, it would be an 8 and nothing would change, unless tags were cut back !