Changes To Archery Mule Deer.

[Deer Hunter]

It is my impression that they have not pushed or questioned SRD to consider all the other options rather than just decreasing resident tags or pushing for more draw only hunts. These other options include decreasing outfitter/NR tags and looking into the landowner allocations before slapping residents with decreased opportunity.

Also, the AFGA would be the perfect place to push for statisical transparency of these numbers so that the members would see what we are dealing with. Spreadsheets of resident draw stats, landowner tags and NR/outfitter tags per WMU would be a nice start. Are these #'s a secret?

It is nice to see their stance on the S.Sask Regional Plan through their letter to the Premier...did they get a reply? I wonder what else they have planned?

[Pudelpointer]

Why have you come to that impression?


As for "transparency" of the numbers, I have a resolution asking for just that from ESRD. It was supposed to have been voted on last year, but someone dropped the ball.

The AFGA is involved in the 5 year review of guide / outfitter allocations. Just because there are AFGA voices at the table, does not mean that they agree with the outcomes of a meeting. Contrary to popular belief, just because the AB government has invited you to voice your opinion, it does not mean they give a rat's a** what you have to say.

As for the AFGA, remember that it is a volunteer organization. There are a handful of paid individuals who take care of different parts of running the organization, but 100% of the policies and most activities of the AFGA are driven by / undertaken by volunteers.

[waterninja]

after a long hiatus from big game hunting i got back into it 2 years ago. i was amazed at the reg. changes that had occured. one significant change in particular is that hunters who live in alberta seem to come in a poor 2nd place to non-resident hunters. i have many relatives that live on the farm and one common complaint is that outfitters seem to get an unlimmited supply of tags for out of province hunters. it seems to me that resident hunters should get 1st chance at general and draw tags. the way it's set up now seems a little corrupt with money being first priority and wildlife mngt. and albertan hunters rights a low priority.
i could understand if we were a poor province and needed all the non-resident cash that we could get but i doubt the added revenue makes that much difference in albertas budget, meanwhile hunters that live and work here seem to be getting screwed.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Why have you come to that impression?


As for "transparency" of the numbers, I have a resolution asking for just that from ESRD. It was supposed to have been voted on last year, but someone dropped the ball.

.

A very important Question!

AFGA and other groups that sit at AGMAG need to learn and listen to the answers to this question provided from the public and their members. Non member opinion is VERY important, where else can they recruit from?


IMO, a significant reason for people not joining or supporting AFGA and other groups is that Very little information or feedback is provided to the general public. This leaves a lot of questions on the table as to where they stand on a issue, and what they are actually doing about it.

In the information age, groups like AFGA need to get up to speed.



The "transparency" of hunting licences is a great example of the problem. AFGA knows that this government information is PUBLIC information. It would be a simple affair for them to obtain (I'm assuming they don't have it ) and post it online. The fact that it takes a resolution and a multi year long process to make a decision to even get involved, produces a grey mouldy fruit no one wants.


When a single person working independantly can produce results ten times faster than that same person doing the work through an organization....

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

Why have you come to that impression?


As for "transparency" of the numbers, I have a resolution asking for just that from ESRD. It was supposed to have been voted on last year, but someone dropped the ball.

The AFGA is involved in the 5 year review of guide / outfitter allocations. Just because there are AFGA voices at the table, does not mean that they agree with the outcomes of a meeting. Contrary to popular belief, just because the AB government has invited you to voice your opinion, it does not mean they give a rat's a** what you have to say.

As for the AFGA, remember that it is a volunteer organization. There are a handful of paid individuals who take care of different parts of running the organization, but 100% of the policies and most activities of the AFGA are driven by / undertaken by volunteers.

Considering that they knew that this year would invlove changing the 5 yr outfitter allocations, putting archery mule deer on draw, more reduced resident draw allocations due to hard winters, the sheep decision etc .... It wasnt very good timing to "drop the ball".

Im not sure my impression will change.

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Truck hunting with a bow? Now that would be something to see. LOL

Happens all the time down here in the south west

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

Sheephunter: Arent you staff on the AFGA's payroll?

Nope! I do some contract work for them. It's nice to be in a position where you only have to work with organizations you really believe in. I really believe in them. You should bring yourself up to speed a bit about the hours that Doug puts in and the dedication he has...I know you'd be impressed. He is one of the good guys working hard for resident hunters. If you are looking for a group that's always going to get their way you'll be very disappointed...if you are looking for a group that fights very hard for you....well there are a few of them but for resident hunters first....it's definitely AFGA.

[Eze]

Ism a landowner and have some great animals, reason is i control who hunts it. Many mule deer and some great ones over the years.

I think they should shut the season down period for 5years. I Will on my land lol

Everyone wants to hunt where they see big ones. Well buy your own land and hunt them, don't complain because the landower gets a tag, hell, he feeds them , he shouldn't even need a tag. My opinion

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

.if you are looking for a group that fights very hard for you....well there are a few of them but for resident hunters first....it's definitely AFGA.

ive said it before....too many guys beetch and whine about what oughta be done, but fail to join and support groups like AFGA and ABA who actually have a voice for us. those groups dont always win...but at least they are there trying.

thats a broad statement by the way....not just aimed at deer hunter.

[H380]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

ive said it before....too many guys beetch and whine about what oughta be done, but fail to join and support groups like AFGA and ABA who actually have a voice for us. those groups dont always win...but at least they are there trying.

thats a broad statement by the way....not just aimed at deer hunter.

So true ISB , without organisations like these we as hunters would have no voice or input at all .

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Nope! I do some contract work for them. It's nice to be in a position where you only have to work with organizations you really believe in. I really believe in them. You should bring yourself up to speed a bit about the hours that Doug puts in and the dedication he has...I know you'd be impressed. He is one of the good guys working hard for resident hunters. If you are looking for a group that's always going to get their way you'll be very disappointed...if you are looking for a group that fights very hard for you....well there are a few of them but for resident hunters first....it's definitely AFGA.

http://afga.org/html/content/staff/

[209x50]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

I fixed it for you! You know it's no secret, why hide the fact about it? Why not tell people your one of the leading voices advocating the mule deer draw? Are you not the SCI representative at the agmag meeting?

Not the first time you had no idea what you are talking about.

[jryley]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Not the first time you had no idea what you are talking about.

Lol. Give pouttymouth a break. Poor guy didnt and wont get what he feels hes entitled to, so let the feet stomping begin. Cant say im upset about it though!

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by jryley

Lol. Give pouttymouth a break. Poor guy didnt and wont get what he feels hes entitled to, so let the feet stomping begin. Cant say im upset about it though!

Hey easy now slick, what if it was rifle huntin under the gun here would you care? Do you care that there is a trend in this province, and it isnt a good one. You might wanna check yourself. You are out of touch with reality and out of line slim.There is nothing wrong with concern and questions.I wont and wouldnt place fault on anyone here but as well am concerned over this situation, as should you be.

[ishootbambi]

im goiing to point this out again.....IF archery hunters are taking more than their 15% allotted...it should go to draw. the math srd is using to get their numbers is seriously flawed.....aim the anger at the right place here people!

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by 209x50

Not the first time you had no idea what you are talking about.

I didn't say anything that was wrong! You do want mule deer on draw, because you believe bowhunters shouldn't have that opportunity.... the last sentence was a question...hence the (?)....

Originally Posted by jryley

Lol. Give pouttymouth a break. Poor guy didnt and wont get what he feels hes entitled to, so let the feet stomping begin. Cant say im upset about it though!

Actually your wrong again, there will be no stomping of the feet ! Only one zone out of the 5 I hunt will go only draw! So I'll still be chasing big ones again! And If that changes down the road, well I'll buy my self a pretty little section and hunt my landowners tags...Heck we might end up being neighbors...lol

Originally Posted by missingtwo

http://afga.org/html/content/staff/

Ya, I'm well aware of that and I'm telling you I am not staff but a contractor.....If it's really bothering you that much perhaps call the office tomorrow for clarification. They will tell you exactly what I told you here.

[209x50]

It amazes me that the ABA never asked for support from other organizations. it also amazes me theys went to the last AGMAG not fighting for proof of the archers exceeding the 15% cap but rather went in to negotiate the new draw.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by 209x50

It amazes me that the ABA never asked for support from other organizations. it also amazes me theys went to the last AGMAG not fighting for proof of the archers exceeding the 15% cap but rather went in to negotiate the new draw.

after seeing the info, im not surprised. there is nothing to argue when the numbers are what they are. i have never doubted that some zones are over the 15%.....what i do doubt and am arguing is the method of calculation. while i believe some zones are over....i dont believe many others are.

after explaining in a few pms....more guys are getting it, but im still stunned by the lack of response to the statistical method i posted. i dont buy that for a second.

[H380]

Question I have is where did SRD come up with the magical allowed number of 15 % ? If the number of bowhunters is higher than 15 % of the hunting population , why would the allowance number not be raised as well ?

Originally Posted by H380

Question I have is where did SRD come up with the magical allowed number of 15 % ? If the number of bowhunters is higher than 15 % of the hunting population , why would the allowance number not be raised as well ?

If I'm not mistaken....bow hunter licence sales represent about 15.8% of wildlife certificate sales.

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

If I'm not mistaken....bow hunter licence sales represent about 15.8% of wildlife certificate sales.

Thats good info. But, what is really needed is archery mule deer tags compared to the total # of mule deer tags.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by H380

Question I have is where did SRD come up with the magical allowed number of 15 % ? If the number of bowhunters is higher than 15 % of the hunting population , why would the allowance number not be raised as well ?

People want challenge with thier outdoor adventure. Alberta doesnt want that i guess no matter how effective the tool is. When the goal is Resource destruction, archers dont produce good enough results? We need everything dead except bighorns, goats, and grizzlys? That is a good question H380...

[H380]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

People want challenge with thier outdoor adventure. Alberta doesnt want that i guess no matter how effective the tool is. When the goal is Resource destruction, archers dont produce good enough results? We need everything dead except bighorns, goats, and grizzlys? That is a good question H380...

Well we already know there aren't enough Grizz to susbstantiate the need for a hunt so that only leaves goats and sheep .. Sounds like the sheep season is gonna get screwed up too and Goats ? Well there's another once in 2 lifetime tag .... If you're lucky .

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by missingtwo

Thats good info. But, what is really needed is archery mule deer tags compared to the total # of mule deer tags.

be careful what you wish for....in some zones from what ive seen, archery participation would change those numbers for the worse. the point is that archers should be getting their representative percentage of harvest. in some zones archers account for higher percentage, and some cases lower. although some wmus may benefit from actual numbers....others would suffer.

that doesnt apply to mules only by the way.

[H380]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

If I'm not mistaken....bow hunter licence sales represent about 15.8% of wildlife certificate sales.

Sorry , shoulda clarified , I'm talking all these zones that can't exist without a draw . Maybe bowhunter numbers in these zones are higher ?

[missingtwo]

Originally Posted by missingtwo

Thats good info. But, what is really needed is archery mule deer tags compared to the total # of mule deer tags.

Actually, the real # to know is archery mule deer harvest compared to the total harvest

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by missingtwo

Actually, the real # to know is archery mule deer harvest compared to the total harvest

These are the numbers that are "extrapolated for an entire populace due to an insufficient sampling size" in SOME cases.

LC

[338Bluff]

Honestly, I think we started this thread about 6 months to early. Its only December 16th for Pete's sake. This is gonna fizzle and we are going to have to spend the rest of the winter arguing about ballistics or why the .270 is the best ever........

All kidding aside when I heard what kind of math they were using to arrive at the stats....I know what they can do with their upcoming survey this year.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by 209x50

It amazes me that the ABA never asked for support from other organizations. it also amazes me theys went to the last AGMAG not fighting for proof of the archers exceeding the 15% cap but rather went in to negotiate the new draw.

Bull! Aba and saba have worked hand in hand on this and the aba was representing all archers at the agmag. Like I stated earlier Corrigan doesn't give a fok that the data is false and archers have come to the conclusion it might be better ttying to negotiate a separate archery draw rather than a method of reliable data collection.
Corrigan has made it quite clear he doesn't give a fok who's right or wrong, things are happening his way, right now.
This proposal is hurting all user groups and there are many better solutions to a problem were not even sure exists!!!!