Wolves wrecking sheep hunting.

[6tmile]

Seems like us trappers are getting blamed for all the wolves eating all the big sheep.

Check out the hunting forum under 437 draw, and now their is a poll in the general discussion forum.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 6tmile

Seems like us trappers are getting blamed for all the wolves eating all the big sheep.

Check out the hunting forum under 437 draw, and now their is a poll in the general discussion forum.

Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!

[huntin]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!

there is a trap line up by my house there is literally a wolf highway in the winter down one pipe line the trapper only catches a few martin a year and wont sign on a Jr to help snare wolves. if your not going to use it you should lose it.

[6tmile]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!

A fur harvest report is done every year upon licence renewal.

[sourdough doug]

Anyone who thinks that it is wolves that are the only ones depleting the sheep population must be snorting powdered sheep shat. Sheep habitat is not one that is readily suited to garnering food for wolves. That is not to say that it does not occur but is certainly the exception. Their food source is much more readily where the deer and such are located and more of them as well. And to think that trappers can make any difference in wolf numbers, knows nothing of trapping these animals. There are those that are quite successful in taking wolves but are the exception.. Even bounties are not the answer.
If, supposedly, it is the wolves doing this damage, well surely then, they must have been spotted by those sheep hunters. If this were the case, did these sheep hunters, do what was required of them and harvest a wolf instead.....I doubt it....

[Acesneights]

Lets not forget about cougars. I don't have any stats but I am sure they kill as many if not more sheep than wolves

[molly]

Some of you guys should post on that thread over in Hunting....

[northbuck]

[QUOTE=sheepguide;2148102]Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

[B]And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front.

Sheep...maybe your reply should have said...And yep Sheep, myself, and I see trappers as not pulling ...
There is no doubt that wolves can kill a large amount of game if not well-managed. I do not have sheep in my area but have seen what damage they can do to a deer or moose population. That said, it looks like you're venting and pointing fingers at trappers for your own selfish reasons...getting more and bigger sheep on the mountain...while hoping trappers do part of the work for you. If you are so concerned about the wolf population, why not spend less time chasing cats and snowmobiling as you say you do in your area and set out baits or do some calling on your own...to help alleviate a situation you perceive as a problem. To generalize that trappers are not doing enough is putting the blame in the wrong place. I am a hunter and a trapper and I try to hunt and trap both my RFMA and private land as much as possible to reduce wolf and coyote numbers...not only for the fur harvest but also with the big game populations in mind. My harvest usually runs from 4 to 15 wolves a year. That said, wolves are a very smart animal that learn to avoid traps and snares quickly and short of poisoning them, you can't eliminate them. Also, the monetary return for the work involved in both trapping and skinning wolves is quite low compared to other species such as fisher and marten, thus, some trappers don't go after wolves very hard. In my area, you can hunt but not trap wolves as a resident hunter at certain times of the year...even on registered lines. Why not be part of the solution and go take some wolves out yourself? Spend less time starting all these posts venting at trappers and go out there and chase wolves...just saying.

[Brian Bildson]

I don't remember the government hiring me to control wolves? I get to manage my line as i see fit, not cater the agenda of a sheep hunter. I can see how concerned you are about sheep sheephunter so why don't you tell us how many wolves you killed. After all you can legally hunt them as a hunter and apparently you've covered every mile and you're so in tune you know how many are in each pack. How many have you smoked Bwana? Me feels a big hot wind blowing out of the mountains.

[PCP_ECOM]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

I don't remember the government hiring me to control wolves? I get to manage my line as i see fit, not cater the agenda of a sheep hunter. I can see how concerned you are about sheep sheephunter so why don't you tell us how many wolves you killed. After all you can legally hunt them as a hunter and apparently you've covered every mile and you're so in tune you know how many are in each pack. How many have you smoked Bwana? Me feels a big hot wind blowing out of the mountains.

I have to agree,if you have been able to determine how many wolves are arround,then you should of been able to thin them down a little yourself instead of casting yonis else where, me thinks them big cats do more to sheep populations then wolves ever would,IMO

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by PCP_ECOM

I have to agree,if you have been able to determine how many wolves are arround,then you should of been able to thin them down a little yourself instead of casting yonis else where, me thinks them big cats do more to sheep populations then wolves ever would,IMO

Not hard to determine how many wolves in an area without actually seeing the wolves themselves or being presented with an opportunity to harvest many!
And yep cats do take a few but cats don't run in packs and the same area that will hold 20 wolves will only carry a couple cats so that's pretty simple math on what affects populations more.

And as far as cats go hunter are pretty much doing 100% of what they can on that front.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!

Trappers aren't pulling their weight? I would expect that the guys with the most to lose from wolf predation against sheep, SHEEP HUNTING OUTFITTERS AND GUIDES, would be the ones out there doing something. Why would you expect others to ensure that your business remains viable. If you don't want to get out there with a rifle and get after the wolves perhaps as a group you could contract some trappers to address your problem.

And Sheepguide, honestly, not trying to be snarky. Just seems like you guys should be the ones taking action if it's impacting your livelihood. Perhaps you are and I just don't know it.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Trappers aren't pulling their weight? I would expect that the guys with the most to lose from wolf predation against sheep, SHEEP HUNTING OUTFITTERS AND GUIDES, would be the ones out there doing something. Why would you expect others to ensure that your business remains viable. If you don't want to get out there with a rifle and get after the wolves perhaps as a group you could contract some trappers to address your problem.

And Sheepguide, honestly, not trying to be snarky. Just seems like you guys should be the ones taking action if it's impacting your livelihood. Perhaps you are and I just don't know it.

Some Ourfitters do! Some are registered trappers in their aread and a few take winter wolf hunts. As well some run dogs to control cat populations so they do do their part.

No actually we shouldn't. All people in the outdoors should be helping. Like I said trappers want nothing to do with helping the wolf population issues than maybe wolves should be open to anyone to trap. These a good number of guys that would go out to just trap wolves just for a hobby. I know a couple that do now on private land and would give anything to in the West Country but are restricted because trappers have some rights to trap wolves there.

[braggadoe]

sounds like you know some trappers that are trapping wolves. i'm confused. the amount of time you've been bashing trappers the last few days. you could of yourself got outside and contributed. instead of complaining on the internet.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

sounds like you know some trappers that are trapping wolves. i'm confused. the amount of time you've been bashing trappers the last few days. you could of yourself got outside and contributed. instead of complaining on the internet.

Called sitting at work bud!! If I could be outside instead of stuck on a bombing range that has had zero hunting in 50+ years babysitting a drilling rig I would be!! Week to go and ill be out there!!

[scrapper]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!

Hunters in general are anxious to play the blame game, some guy gets lazy, doesn't put in the effort and can't fill his tag. First thing out of his mouth is blame the wolves for low populations. Frankly I am sick of that BS. The wolves are a sign of a healthy Eco system.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by scrapper

Hunters in general are anxious to play the blame game, some guy gets lazy, doesn't put in the effort and can't fill his tag. First thing out of his mouth is blame the wolves for low populations. Frankly I am sick of that BS. The wolves are a sign of a healthy Eco system.

You may wanna go into west central Alberta and look at your elk populations. Some wintering grounds have gone from 4000+head to 300 head. And that wasnt due to two legged hunters! Has nothing to do with lazy!! When tag numbers are lowered to 5 tags each for elk and moose per WMU per year there is an issue! Wolves and predators in general are plentiful and at all time highs and ungulate numbers are all down. So is that sign of a healthy ecosystem? Hunters are playing the blame game!! They are blaming predators and know that things need to change. These changes need to be made by all users. And right now hunting and trapping are the only managment tools we have at this point and both need to be utilized to even just hold populations but seems neither group want any part of it.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by scrapper

Hunters in general are anxious to play the blame game, some guy gets lazy, doesn't put in the effort and can't fill his tag. First thing out of his mouth is blame the wolves for low populations. Frankly I am sick of that BS. The wolves are a sign of a healthy Eco system.

I have got to agree with this. Nothing for wolves to eat no wolves.

[KegRiver]

I see Wolves being blamed for low ungulate numbers but it's not clear to me that they are to blame.

I know that a study published by Schwartz and Franzmann of Kenai Moose Research Center, Alaska Department of Fish and Game, found that Bears were far more significant predators of Moose calf's then Wolves were in that study.

Here are some numbers they came up with. These are the numbers of radio collared Moose calves taken by predators in their study.

1977
number killed % of total
Black bear 6 40.0
Brown bear 1 6.7
Wolf 1 6.7

1978
number killed % of total
Black bear 10 41.7
Brown bear 2 8.3
Wolf 2 8.3


So bears took 46% of the total number killed and Wolves only took 6.7% in the first year of the study while Bears took 50% to the Wolves 8.3% in the second year of the study.

A similar study carried out by the Manitoba F&W came up with similar results.

My experience living in the north as a trapped and a hunter, suggests that there are a lot of factors other then just wolves at play here.

In the Manitoba study as many bears as was possible were removed from the study area and the result was the Moose population almost doubled in one year.

That suggests to me that Bears may be the most significant predator of Moose in those areas and it would be reasonable to suspect they may be the most significant predator of all ungulates in all of north America.

Things I have observed suggest to me that human activity may have more effect then all the predators combined.

It's not only hunting and trapping that effect Wolf numbers, clearly prey availability has an even bigger impact.
I am convinced that some species have benefited greatly from human activity. Deer Elk and Wolves specifically.

When I was growing up there were no Elk in the Peace region and very few Deer and Wolves.
Now we have plenty of all three while the Moose numbers are way down.

We can point fingers at each other all day long and it will solve nothing.
All that will do is make us all look like a bunch of idiots to the non hunting public. This is what we can not afford to have happen.

As for the Wolf predation on ungulates, I doubt very much that there is a simple solution.
We can not force anyone to deal with the problem for free, or at a loss, which is what some are suggesting.

Trappers trap to make a living, they can not afford to focus one just one fur bearing species and hunters hunt for food and recreation. So it's not reasonable to expect them to deal with the problem.

I'm not even sure Wolves are that big a factor. From what I have read, including the studies mentioned, Bears may be a bigger factor.

Others will do what they will do, as for me, I see no reasonable option other then to put my faith in those paid to deal with wildlife issues, no matter how poor a job it may seem they are doing.

At least they have the research, the tools and the mandate to deal with such issues. I have none of those things.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I'm not even sure Wolves are that big a factor. From what I have read, including the studies mentioned, Bears may be a bigger factor.

Deffinatly a possibility but in the mountain zones that have been the hardest hit this would push to say that Grizzly numbers are then extremely high not at levels anywhere near as low as suggested. Blackbears have a huge factor on moose and elk calves in many areas for sure. But in areas such as our main mountain zones and parks blk bear numbers I dont believe are near as significant as many of the study areas or in places such as Northern Alberta. Would be nice to see a study to show all predator numbers in areas hit hardest.