Wildlife Certificate & Reduced Wait Times??

[Deer Hunter]

In my opinion pricing out someone who is a valid applicant is a terrible alternative to much needed draw system reform.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Exactly
You increase the price of an application a lot of these people aren’t going to be willing to spend the extra cash. Look at rzr. A little more money and he won’t be applying. Perfect. One less system abuser

You should never ASSume it makes you look like one. I don’t abuse the system, I just thinking of all the retired people that still like to get out and hunt that are on a fixed income or the family that has multiple kids that hunt that won’t be able to afford to hunt. I’m a firm believer that kids should learn to hunt and making it out of reach for them just tells me it all about you and no one else matters.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have actually heard people talking about getting tags for their wives , so they could shoot extra animals. I was speaking to the local F&W officer, and he mentioned people shooting their two pheasants, and having a friend or spouse drive out to the site to take them, so the hunter could shoot two more. Unfortunately, these violations aren't easy to prove.

Since when did we start having to apply for a pheasant tag? Hear say is hardly proof. You ever hear of the saying believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by RZR

You should never ASSume it makes you look like one. I don’t abuse the system, I just thinking of all the retired people that still like to get out and hunt that are on a fixed income or the family that has multiple kids that hunt that won’t be able to afford to hunt. I’m a firm believer that kids should learn to hunt and making it out of reach for them just tells me it all about you and no one else matters.

I am all for retired people and children getting out hunting, as long as their tags are filled legally, and they are not illegally providing tags for other family members or friends to fill .

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

You should never ASSume it makes you look like one. I don’t abuse the system, I just thinking of all the retired people that still like to get out and hunt that are on a fixed income or the family that has multiple kids that hunt that won’t be able to afford to hunt. I’m a firm believer that kids should learn to hunt and making it out of reach for them just tells me it all about you and no one else matters.

What are you talking about?
Bud this is about potentially reforming the system to eliminate the chances of people exploiting the system.
You know they sell general tags right? You know that you can partner your draws with a youth also right? Youth tags are $5?
Do you even read the regs?

[marky_mark]

Sorry my bad $8.25 for a youth whitetail or mule deer tag

[marky_mark]

Seniors pay $8 for their wildlife certificate and the same $8.25 for a whitetail tag
How much lower do you want it to be?

[Snap Shot]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

In my opinion pricing out someone who is a valid applicant is a terrible alternative to much needed draw system reform.

Truers words have never been spoken. Pricing struggling Alberta and out of something they love is a terrible idea tossed around by a few. I keep explaining there is no other way besides making it strictly the rich can afford. Eliminating all guiding for non resident for all draw species, checking validation of residency of Alberta applicants, making a mandatory waiting period before new Albertans are eligible to enter the draws process.

This is a serious problem that faces albertans and one that has come from a few decades of mass migration from other parts of Canada. There only is a certain quota available to maintain and ideal carrying capacity of animals and a huge demand by increase in population. I believe Alberta residents should have first chance at that opportunity especially for the future generations

[RZR]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

What are you talking about?
Bud this is about potentially reforming the system to eliminate the chances of people exploiting the system.
You know they sell general tags right? You know that you can partner your draws with a youth also right? Youth tags are $5?
Do you even read the regs?

Your just about there,but not quite. Let me dumb it down for you. What you want to do is make it $20 a draw so now the seniors would have to pay the $20 a draw to apply. You see where I'm going with this.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

In my opinion pricing out someone who is a valid applicant is a terrible alternative to much needed draw system reform.

Instead, we just tell them no.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by RZR

You should never ASSume it makes you look like one. I don’t abuse the system, I just thinking of all the retired people that still like to get out and hunt that are on a fixed income or the family that has multiple kids that hunt that won’t be able to afford to hunt. I’m a firm believer that kids should learn to hunt and making it out of reach for them just tells me it all about you and no one else matters.

Good grief. These are easy, EASY to get around. But don’t worry about that anyway. Kids will never draw many tags while they are kids, and seniors will be dead before they will.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by chuck

Good grief. These are easy, EASY to get around. But don’t worry about that anyway. Kids will never draw many tags while they are kids, and seniors will be dead before they will.

Exactly
Chuck If your kids start applying now For antelope, turkey, or 410 sheep
They would be lucky if able to go on those hunts before they are 40

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Exactly
Chuck If your kids start applying now For antelope, turkey, or 410 sheep
They would be lucky if able to go on those hunts before they are 40

Add to that Moose and Elk in our area. There is no way they are drawing any of those tags as youth. Mule Deer tags are another one.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by RZR

Your just about there,but not quite. Let me dumb it down for you. What you want to do is make it $20 a draw so now the seniors would have to pay the $20 a draw to apply. You see where I'm going with this.

They are going to be able to apply on as many draws as they want
Just like everyone else

They can always hunt deer for under $20

[dshaw]

Originally Posted by chuck

Add to that Moose and Elk in our area. There is no way they are drawing any of those tags as youth. Mule Deer tags are another one.

Exactly. Only way my kids will hunt these animals in their youth is to partner with dad, grandpa, uncle, mom, aunt, etc. So yes we are having more applicants in our family. I'm not sure what the solution is, especially in the south, but maybe its just cause our population has gone way up in the last few years. More hunters to apply makes longer wait times. Same as Utah and other states with high population. Supply and demand. Maybe its as simple as that but I do agree we could look at changing a few things.

[WildBillG]

I may be missing some thing but is there even a non draw mule deer zone. The guys you guys are worried about are poachers. Do poachers really worry about tags and rules. We have laws to stop these talked about actions but the people need to be caught in the act. Our draw system is fine as I said before no changes were needed. Upping prices will not stop crime never has never will. The fact is you have to be willing to turn in your neighbor or friend if you know he is doing wrong.

Also as I said earlier if you want faster draw results complain to the out fit running the draw. Lets not fight amoungst our selves.

[DRhunter]

I have been reading this thread on and off and am just surprised and disappointed at the people that are so driven to reduce opportunity for the rest of us Albertans that enjoy the chance to hunt every species in this province at one time or another.

I think our draw system is the best system out there when comparing to other jurisdictions, but I do not disagree that there may be some minor abuses; I do wish that the next step would be to automatically charge the recipient for the tag when drawn.

But I think one of the bigger issues that people seem to forget is that the population of Alberta has grown significantly since the "Glory Days" of hunting in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The population has tripled since the 70's and doubled since the 90's; so with a significantly larger population (and larger number of hunters) there is going to be significantly larger demand for tags/hunting opportunities. When you combine this with significantly less hunting land (city/town growth and the boom of breaking up large tracts of land for acreage etc. development), its no wonder the draw tag wait times have increased.

Unless you can convince half or 2/3 of the population to pick up and move out of the province, I do not expect things to magically make the draw wait times reduced.

One thing I do hope is that those in this forum are practicing what they preach. For those that want everyone else to only put in for 3 draws per year (ignoring the fact that a lot of us like the opportunity to hunt each species in this province at some point in our life), I hope they are leading the charge and limiting themselves to 2 or 3 draws already. And for those that want to significantly increase the price of draws and tags, I cant wait to see the picture of their donation to the ACA or other conservation group for the specific difference in what you would like to see draw prices or tag prices be compared to what we have to pay. I have a feeling your money will be better spent directly donating to these groups than increasing government revenue.

DR

[DRhunter]

Sorry Double post

[Deer Hunter]

Another issue is that the majority of the 400’s and a bunch of the 300’s have very low game populations now compared to 15 years ago. These areas have a lot of crown land and were historically great for hunting mule deer, moose and elk. Now due to predation they are not as desirable to hunt, forcing guys into the 100’s and 200’s where game populations are high, but the land is mostly private.

It would help the draw system if the 300’s and 400’s actually had enough game to hunt. And take some of the draw pressure off the mostly private land wmus.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by DRhunter

I have been reading this thread on and off and am just surprised and disappointed at the people that are so driven to reduce opportunity for the rest of us Albertans that enjoy the chance to hunt every species in this province at one time or another.

I think our draw system is the best system out there when comparing to other jurisdictions, but I do not disagree that there may be some minor abuses; I do wish that the next step would be to automatically charge the recipient for the tag when drawn.

But I think one of the bigger issues that people seem to forget is that the population of Alberta has grown significantly since the "Glory Days" of hunting in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The population has tripled since the 70's and doubled since the 90's; so with a significantly larger population (and larger number of hunters) there is going to be significantly larger demand for tags/hunting opportunities. When you combine this with significantly less hunting land (city/town growth and the boom of breaking up large tracts of land for acreage etc. development), its no wonder the draw tag wait times have increased.

Unless you can convince half or 2/3 of the population to pick up and move out of the province, I do not expect things to magically make the draw wait times reduced.

One thing I do hope is that those in this forum are practicing what they preach. For those that want everyone else to only put in for 3 draws per year (ignoring the fact that a lot of us like the opportunity to hunt each species in this province at some point in our life), I hope they are leading the charge and limiting themselves to 2 or 3 draws already. And for those that want to significantly increase the price of draws and tags, I cant wait to see the picture of their donation to the ACA or other conservation group for the specific difference in what you would like to see draw prices or tag prices be compared to what we have to pay. I have a feeling your money will be better spent directly donating to these groups than increasing government revenue.

DR

There is the problem in a nutshell. No amount of altering the current draw system is going to change that. If there is not enough Game or areas available to meet the rising hunter demand, we are hooped ! As draw wait times increase, so should the cost. Hunting is a privledge we have , not a right. Supply and demand is what is causing the wait times.
I've been hunting Alberta since the '50's and have experienced the changes. Believe me, the're not good. I'm also retired, but fortunately I can afford a nominal cost increase if it will alleviate just a few of the issues we are currently witnessing. No family is "entitled" to three or four Big Game animals each year. Pretty simple, but still legal. Plan on a continuing decrease in hunting opportunities and start saving your pennies for the rising costs to participate. It's just the way it goes !

[Outdoorfanatic]

Alberta population has increased but hunter numbers have over the decades decreased. Seems to be a major point that everyone is over looking and that is 999 means your not eligible for the draw so you don't affect wait times for that year. So why does a 999 application force the purchase of a WC? Also Youth are not eligible to enter a draw until age 12 so again don't affect wait times on the majority of draws until well into their 20s. Many seniors and even government stats indicate that deer, moose and elk have all doubled and in some cases tripled in population since the 50's. Example there never use to be moose seasons in the 100 WMUs.

Issues:
- Lease land although public is treated as private.
- Predation is on the rise and the regulations limit how effective hunting can be to keep predation in check.
- Lack of transparency with biologist on their philosophy of game management. You can fill out the harvest reports 100% honest but still we have no idea how that information is being interpreted. Anti hunters have just as much influence in setting allocations within our draw system and likely more then any of us who hunt.
- There's no means to identify nor discourage Anti hunting groups from using tax free money to influence and even hijack our draw system.
- Treaty/Metis hunting. Again there's no what to measure the harvest of these groups

My conclusion is collecting fees for 999 applications will not change one draw not by a single tag.

[DRhunter]

Originally Posted by Outdoorfanatic

Alberta population has increased but hunter numbers have over the decades decreased.

This statement is not true going back to the early 2000's, maybe hunting percentage of total population of Alberta has decreased but not total hunters.

Based on the information that I could find through the My Wild Alberta website (info only going back to 2005), Hunting licences sold in 2005 totaled 85k; hunting licences sold between 2015-2019 averaged about 125k. That's a 40-50% increase in hunting licences sold in a very short time frame; a very significant increase. I can only assume that the draw statistics would coincide with this increase (or may be even higher) as well.

DR

[Stinky Coyote]

adding the wildlife certificate purchase ahead of draws is a good step, and one in the right direction, period

this thread has hit the ditch several times, way off into the weeds, about all sorts of things the op wasn't asking about lol

while we're at it here, what other world problems can we solve?

[Outdoorfanatic]

Tag sales has increased? The real issue is total number of hunters not tag sales. If all we do is increase fees then yes we will slowly discourage more and more of our fellow hunters from being involved. The short term gain will be shorter wait times on draws. However the long term disadvantage is we have less numbers, less of a voice to combat the anti hunting groups. So as they gain in numbers we are decreasing. All of this translates into less access to land and hunting opportunities as a whole. So bottom line the only people who win are the Anti hunting groups.

So while we fight one another, smaller jurisdictions in the US create programs that connect hunters with landowners to gain further access. They also manage wild life in such a way that even non residents can purchase multiple tags on a variety of species. Yes their are multiple US jurisdiction some more successful then others. The point is the US has a bigger population then Canada and has small land mass. So according to the logic so far presented here the US should have less opportunities then we do, more pressure and all that. Except the opposite is true. in many of the midwestern states we are only better on moose hunting then they are, but in virtually every other hunting opportunity they are significantly better. Even on grizzly bear hunts they are better. And there they encourage people to hunt by not only youth programs but also making allowance for non residents to enter draws country wide. Not just within state but state to state. And all on either self guided or semi self guided hunts.

There is clearly a flaw in the management philosophy in the Canadian system and more specifically the Alberta system.

[Positrac]

I love when opinions are stated as fact...

[Smoky buck]

So who decided to pass on entering the draw because they had to by a wildlife certificate this year?

[H380]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

So who decided to pass on entering the draw because they had to by a wildlife certificate this year?

Good question...

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

So who decided to pass on entering the draw because they had to by a wildlife certificate this year?

No one!

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by DRhunter

I have been reading this thread on and off and am just surprised and disappointed at the people that are so driven to reduce opportunity for the rest of us Albertans that enjoy the chance to hunt every species in this province at one time or another.

I think our draw system is the best system out there when comparing to other jurisdictions, but I do not disagree that there may be some minor abuses; I do wish that the next step would be to automatically charge the recipient for the tag when drawn.

But I think one of the bigger issues that people seem to forget is that the population of Alberta has grown significantly since the "Glory Days" of hunting in the 70's, 80's and 90's. The population has tripled since the 70's and doubled since the 90's; so with a significantly larger population (and larger number of hunters) there is going to be significantly larger demand for tags/hunting opportunities. When you combine this with significantly less hunting land (city/town growth and the boom of breaking up large tracts of land for acreage etc. development), its no wonder the draw tag wait times have increased.

Unless you can convince half or 2/3 of the population to pick up and move out of the province, I do not expect things to magically make the draw wait times reduced.

One thing I do hope is that those in this forum are practicing what they preach. For those that want everyone else to only put in for 3 draws per year (ignoring the fact that a lot of us like the opportunity to hunt each species in this province at some point in our life), I hope they are leading the charge and limiting themselves to 2 or 3 draws already. And for those that want to significantly increase the price of draws and tags, I cant wait to see the picture of their donation to the ACA or other conservation group for the specific difference in what you would like to see draw prices or tag prices be compared to what we have to pay. I have a feeling your money will be better spent directly donating to these groups than increasing government revenue.

DR

While I agree with your post in general.do you really think the whole Fish & Wildlife Division operation is funded 100% by the annual revenue received from Hunting & Fishing licenses?

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I have actually heard people talking about getting tags for their wives , so they could shoot extra animals. I was speaking to the local F&W officer, and he mentioned people shooting their two pheasants, and having a friend or spouse drive out to the site to take them, so the hunter could shoot two more. Unfortunately, these violations aren't easy to prove.

I know of several families that do just that so I'm darn sure there are lots more that I don't know that do it as well. Its just about impossible to prove who did the actual shooting unless actually witnessed by a CO or other authority. Pretty slim chance that will happen. Referring to Big Game.