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  #31  
Old 01-27-2009, 07:56 PM
dirtyman dirtyman is offline
 
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Default all the rainbows gone

my faverate trout fishing hole close to home (5 min.) gone because ,ooops now we got perch....fished it for the last 20 years, well not the last 5 of them ... perch are very aggresive feeders (big and small bait)..ate all my trout food...catch perch ao hooks bigger then them.....

we all want kids to get fish when out...pick up a perch or pike and you might get hurt "spiked (perch/wally bit ,u know) trout mmmmm maybe a little slime..

perch are almost every lake fed by the river so then they as the bigger cousin walley are also in those lakes......if you want to stock a large pond small pong even a dugout make sure u are not "killing" the lake....

accidents do happen i relise that, at the same time it a shame to a good fishery...

happy fishing where evr you go
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2009, 08:43 PM
oilngas oilngas is offline
 
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Default Sundance Perch

We live in Sundance, recently took our 4 year old grandson and he soon got bored with 20 4" perch in an hour. Then once we were shown the technique by Sundancefisher the number we could have caught rose dramatically. But all in the 4" range. And still bored after and hour.

The grandson is used to the walleye in CVR and Buck. He loves to spend the time to catch these. Therefore the 4" Perch are tame to him after the 24" wallygators in CVR.

It seems to me that the term to be used for the Sundance perch is "biomass". It would appear to me that the Max. Biomass of the lake carrying capacity has been reached and the only way for the number to increase is for each new perch hatched to be smaller. Therefore stunted. As long as the number of Perch increases they will get small, or so it seems to me.
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  #33  
Old 01-27-2009, 10:53 PM
dirtyman dirtyman is offline
 
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Default once one summer

i walked by a small/big puddle one day...i was in grade 3 or 4...i seen a bunch of tadpoles (never sen them before.....i ran home got a couple 4L ice cream buckets and ..............no frogs came from that puddle that year...
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  #34  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:28 PM
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troutpirate troutpirate is offline
 
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Default perch r great in their place,but....

i only read the last 2 posts. but i wish people would quit illegally dumping perch on our stocked trout lakes. the trout fishing goes down hill and after the brief "bloom" period, the perch stunt out. this has really hurt a lot of good trout fisheries. we almost lost the best drive to trophy trout lake in alberta from this. luckily after 6 years of no trout stocking the fisheries guys started to stock obed lake, at reduced rates, with brown trout again. those big browns would be scary big if they didnt have a zillion 8-inch perch to compete with.
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  #35  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:44 PM
gpguy7 gpguy7 is offline
 
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Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxcore View Post
you can catch northerns anywhere
Maybe in southern alberta you can catch northerns anywhere, up here it seems like we have more trout stocked lakes and ponds than other species. Sure there are sturgeon and swan, but other than that the fishing up near Grande Prairie is weak apart from on the peace river.

So what if you can catch northerns in more places, if that's the problem stock them and walleye. I'd rather be fighting for a big fish that requires some skill rather than the old bobber and worm rainbow constantly.

As far as wanting kids to take fish out of lakes, that's where teaching your kids how to properly handle a fish comes into play.
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  #36  
Old 01-27-2009, 11:51 PM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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So what fish EATS perch?

How could Sundance fix itself?

Also is this a problem with the other Keith lakes?
Midnapore, Bonavista, Bonaventure?

Jamie
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:05 AM
Jester Jester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
So what fish EATS perch?

Jamie
Bass lol..

btw...why do you need to always sign your posts?

Jamie..

lol...dude,we can see your username when you post...lol

(should I insert Jester here?)....
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2009, 12:52 AM
BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bass lol..

btw...why do you need to always sign your posts?

Jamie..

lol...dude,we can see your username when you post...lol

(should I insert Jester here?)....
DO IT DO IT DO IT

BBJ
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  #39  
Old 01-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Jamie Jamie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bass lol..

btw...why do you need to always sign your posts?

Jamie..

lol...dude,we can see your username when you post...lol

(should I insert Jester here?)....


Perhaps more habit than anything.
But this comment was passed on to me be someone who I admire and respect.
He said, the reason he doesnt post on this or most other boards, is that people tend to hide behind their computers and not put their names on what they post. So, I started to put my name down. I used to put my full name down, but then a old wierd guy from this board, manage to track down where I live. Since then I go with my first name only.

I guess it comes down to "If you can post it, You can sign it"

Jamie
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  #40  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:23 AM
TundraBuck
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly Guy View Post
i also have always wondered why we can not stock more perch. I think it is important to remember that rainbows are not native. We put alot of work into bull trout and cutts, but for some reason perch are not as important. I fish lake mcgregor alot, and would love there to be more perch in this lake.

the gov't seems to spend alot of money on stocking rainbows in put and take ponds. I wonder how many of these fish die in these ponds over the winter????
There are plenty of perch in Mcgregor, spend some time hunting them.

Sundancefisher, you are on the ball with this one. It is obvious you know what you're talking. Other users, are just not listening. I like what you stated about the false information being provided to other anglers that do not know. If we keep going the way we're going, Alberta's Fisheries have a decade left... if that.

Major things need to happen. First off, we need more enforcement. Alot more. What is it going to take for the government to invest in our fisheries? and wildlife? Cut some spending elsewhere and give back to the province?

The way I see it, as already stated, you can not have a long-term, solid, perch fishery constantly producing big perch without proper management. There are a few key things; One of the big ones is balance. You need predators, ample food sources, etc.

Cow Lake is an excellent exmaple.

1982. The government of Alberta was annually stocking low numbers of about 5" rainbows. We were catching rainbows over 24 inches constantly on our flyrods. As Don Andersen stated, this lake did and still can produce rainbows of expodatious sizes.

Some moron dumped perch into the lake, and, although it was an excellent trophy rainbow AND trophy perch fishery, this was not for the long-term. The perch soon began reproducing and more perch meant more food was required. The competition really started for the trout. As perch school up, it is often easier for them to find food and gorge. This gave them the upper hand, along with the fact that they can spawn in the lake. Soon the perch numbers were significantly higher than the trout numbers and it began to take its toll. The trout became and still are non-existent (except for brood stocks which aren't true trout).

Ok, fast forward to 1994. We are catching limits of decent perch, lots of fish from 8 to 12 inches and perch over a pound and a half weren't uncommon. Trout are nowhere to be found.

1998, we're catching more perch, but SLOWLY noticing a decrease in the size.

Over the next 10 years I have carefully watched this fishery progress to it's current state, which is ridiculous. Now it is just like this lake in Calgary that is being mentioned. 4" perch, one after the other, all day. There is the very odd bigger one but they are far and few between. Now nobody keeps them, and as Sundancefisher so thoroughly explained, the perch are stunted. This is because there is not a sufficient amount of food for perch to grow anymore. It is a natural thing for perch to stunt. This has already been clarified.

So now this lake is at a fork in the road. The thing I like is that the government has acknowledged the perch issue and has began to do something about it (stocking pike and making a limit of 1 fish over 40"). As long as the government continues to keep a watch on the pike and regularly checks on the lake to see if the pike are doing anything, growing, etc. this lake may just be salvageable. I am curious to see how this lake will be in 10-15 years, theoretically there could be some large northerns consistently being taken, and with the perch numbers under control there may be room and ample food for perch to grow big again.

As a flyfisher and a conservation-minded person, I know I'm not the only one, I would personally like to see this lake scrapped altogether and started from scratch. It is going to take years for the lake to come back as a big trout producer but it could, assuming nobody stocks perch again.

People are ignorant and think they are doing alberta a favour by creating "multi-species fisheries" when in fact they are hurting it, it is all because they are not aware of the facts and science behind it.

Cow Lake isn't the only one in the Rocky Mtn House area now as a former trout lake with perch. Now Twin Lakes has them in it, and I have heard rumours that there may be perch in Struble and Mitchell Lakes. Let's hope not.
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  #41  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:30 AM
goldscud goldscud is offline
 
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Midnapore lake also has perch. Midnapore was the first lake Vandalized. Then some kids carried some perch to Sundance
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  #42  
Old 01-28-2009, 01:47 PM
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Sundancefisher Sundancefisher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
So what fish EATS perch?

How could Sundance fix itself?

Also is this a problem with the other Keith lakes?
Midnapore, Bonavista, Bonaventure?

Jamie
To answer your questions...

How could we fix Lake Sundance in Calgary. Two options...

1) Intensively fish and net perch to effectively knock their numbers down and behave somewhat like a natural predator would. That would allow the remaining fish to have a chance to grow...but hopefully get either netted or angled.

2) Rotenone... kill them all in one shot.

First option takes a lot of man power and logistics. No staff will net...just volunteers. With millions of perch...it is an onerous task

Second option is politically hard when everyone is not on board and willing to sit and present the issue at an open house.

Time will tell how the angling and netting goes.

As for perch predators...the only predators in Alberta naturally would be pike, walleye and burbot. While some larger perch eat smaller perch...generally nature keeps those groups separated in different niches to limit canabalism. Remember that perch are spiny. If a pike or walleye sees a perch on one side of him and a similar sized minnow or trout on the other side...they will eat the minnow or trout first. Easier to swallow. There are lots of studies that discusses the cost per unit effort related to predation. In a man made private lake...no natural species are legally allowed for stocking.

In a put and take lake, man made lake, pot hole lake etc., generally the size really limits the success of many species to grow big as a sport fishery. Not enough room and often depth or spawning areas for native fish such as pike, walleye, burbot etc. Perch are a rarity insofar as they stunt when over populated and can be very successful at reproducing in such a lake. While the first couple of batches may grow big...subsequent generation stunt. Without a regular kill off or natural predators...perch become a waste for a resource.

For more details...please read the following:

http://srd.alberta.ca/fishwildlife/f...djp_Sept24.pdf

The only time I could think of that adding perch to a lake would make any sense would be if you had a lake with pike, walleye, burbot but no minnows or perch.

Then your top predators like pike, walleye and burbot would only grow via invertebrates and some canabalism or cross predation.

Very rare for this to occur naturally. Other than Midnapore and Sundance no other lakes in Calgary have been vandalized via illegal perch introductions. Hopefully education is the key to prevention.

Hope this helps...feel free to ask any other questions either here or via PM.


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  #43  
Old 01-28-2009, 10:55 PM
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DuckBrat DuckBrat is offline
 
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Default A fix for all your Issues

Take all the perch out of your trout ponds and stock them into the dead lakes of Lac Ste Anne, La nonne, Pigeon, and wherever else the Walleye have ruined. Might bring back some balance and a reason for me to go out for a days fishing. Just a thought...
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  #44  
Old 01-30-2009, 04:35 PM
happy perch fisher happy perch fisher is offline
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Would cost millions and millions of dollars and they could'nt put info in to make a difference.
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