Lost quad over cliff in BC Park, how do I retrieve it?

[roughneckin]

Hey everyone,

This thread is for a buddy of mine who lives in BC. His friend dumped his quad over a pretty good edge and it tumbled down quite a ways and is pretty much a heap of metal, which might be inside of a BC Park border area and all is unsure at the moment with no GPS, which allows quads. He wants to retrieve it, but thinks he needs to remove some trees in the process and go quading off of the trail system. Does any one have any good ideas on how to get it, or anyone ran into a similar problem? Does any one think that BC Parks might give a hand?

Thanks

[Mad_Mikee]

if its done...take a rechargable hand held angle grinder or a hacksaw and bring it out in pieces.

[roughneckin]

That is a great idea actually, but I find those rechargeable ones quite unreliable and the good ones are expensive. What I think he mostly wants to do is the lazy mans way and take it out in one shot on the rhino.

[Big Bull]

Helicopter! We need pictures of this one!

[roughneckin]

The helicoptor is what I told him would be the best bet, but don't think he can afford it. Trying to find out if BC Parks will help pay for it maybe so they can make it so there is less garbage in the park

[Dark Wing]

......

[silverado7]

Originally Posted by Big Bull

Helicopter! We need pictures of this one!

X2 on the chopper!!! and pics for sure. I'd call for prices on the chopper. I've had buddies use them to get their snow machines back... damned if I can remember how much they said it cost I'm guessing around $1000... either way it's in the park you have to get it out.

The chopper we use up here runs $1385/hr plus fuel.
I would be surprised if the park paid for any of it. You are more likely to get a fine for quadding off the trail. But then you can defend that not even one tire has touched the ground off the trail.

[BBJTKLE&FISHINGADVENTURES]

Originally Posted by Hoochie Papa

The chopper we use up here runs $1385/hr plus fuel.
I would be surprised if the park paid for any of it. You are more likely to get a fine for quadding off the trail. But then you can defend that not even one tire has touched the ground off the trail.

lmao your always thinkin eh Hoochie lol man your hallarious .

[rae61]

Does he carry any kind of insurance on the quad? If so I would call and see
what might be covered. I watched Dirty Jobs the other night where they recovered a 4x4 from under the ice... very cool and expensive too!!

[pogo]

...it could have landed on a grizzly and killed it.........boy the 'fuzz' would have a field day with you/him!

[bighorn1]

had a buddy drop a sled over an edge into a park around golden a few years back and by the time he was done with the fine and the govenrment it ended up costing him a little over for grand for the fine and the helilift out. Might be worth cutting your losses and just takeing it out in peices depending of course what is left of it and if he has insurance.

[roughneckin]

Nope no insurance, he thought maybe he could get it covered under his house insurance, but no such luck. I think the fine for cutting a crap load of trees in a park will probably come close to the same amount as getting a chopper to help him out and alot less work

He thought about leaving it there but it is a pretty new quad and the motor will hopefully still be working and he can try to use it again.

[Cordur]

See this is where I would have reported it stolen out of my garage so the house insurance covered it lol Almost lost my truck over the edge of a cliff with my buddies camper in tow. Was thinking about what I'd do if it went over the side while we were rigging it to some trees with ropes to keep it on the trail. Funny the kinds of thoughts that go through your head when you are faced with that kind of situation.

[Baulde]

How steep is said cliff and how far down is the quad ?

I do vehicle recovery during rally racing in BC, and we have managed to get cars out of some pretty nasty stuff. Exposures included.

But, every time we pull a car out its different. Im under the opinion with enough tow straps, snatch blocks, jack all, winch and clevace's you can get anything out of anywhere.

As long as the quad is not a ridiculous distance down the cliff you can get at it. A quad with a winch should be able to get to the top. You might want to find someone with experience in setting up pulley systems.
If the cliff is too long and too steep don't try to go on the cliff itself unless you have climbing gear and experience.

[TreeGuy]

Roughneckin, two questions. How steep is the 'cliff', and how far down is it from the top?

I am wondering if you can't haul it up from the top. You mentioned having a Rhino. Can you winch it out with that? It is amazing the amount of force you can generate using pulleys, etc.

Otherwise, I'd suggest contacting a couple of 4X4 clubs in the area, as those guys can usually get anything out. Either way, it's gonna cost. Good luck, and as previously mentioned, pics would be great!

Tree

[TreeGuy]

Baulde, ya beat me to it by 6 minutes while I was typing.

Tree

[Big Red 250]

Put insurance on it, wait a few days then report it stolen.

[deanmc]

I would not want to be caught cutting trees in a park.

I would also be reluctant to call the BC parks because they will probably recover the quad with no consideration to cost and then bill your friend. Plus they may spend thousands of dollar to clean up the little bit of oil and gas that was spilled. I would bite the bullet and do whatever he has to remove it because if parks become involved it will absolutely cost more.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by Baulde

How steep is said cliff and how far down is the quad ?

I do vehicle recovery during rally racing in BC, and we have managed to get cars out of some pretty nasty stuff. Exposures included.

But, every time we pull a car out its different. Im under the opinion with enough tow straps, snatch blocks, jack all, winch and clevace's you can get anything out of anywhere.

As long as the quad is not a ridiculous distance down the cliff you can get at it. A quad with a winch should be able to get to the top. You might want to find someone with experience in setting up pulley systems.
If the cliff is too long and too steep don't try to go on the cliff itself unless you have climbing gear and experience.

Looks like this is what they are going to try to do now. It has a winch and if it still works that will help out alot, but from the pics I have seen of it

It is actually, now that I have seen pics, is more like a 55-70% hill rather than a cliff. Now the issue is that there is very few things to attach the winch to as the top has no solid trees or large rocks. But at least this way will stop the tree cutting which is more what they are worried about at the moment.

It is about 75-100m down, will see how it turns out I guess, thanks all for your responses so far.

[The cooter]

Heres the deal I have lots of experiance with this.I spend most of my time snowmobiling in b.c In the winter.This is what I can tell you for sure.1 becareful whom you contact for infromation and how much info you givr them.Because b.c parks can and will charge you for eviromental damage fuel spill anti-freeze ect.This is a very expensive fine from $1500 - $3000 they don't take kindly to this.2 driveing an ATV with out regesteration and insurance is another $2500.I understand that money may be an issue here so this is what I suggest.Go to a helicopter pilot this may take some time to find and offer him an amount of money In his pocket you will be suprised how these guys can help you if the price is right.Were talking cash under the table we do it about twice a year in Mcbride.The other thing you can do is find out if there are any helicopters running in the area for logging these guy are very accomidating people for the most part.The only other way is blood and sweat.I wish you all the luck I can offer this is a tight position to be in.

[Baulde]

Use rebar,

Pound it into the ground at an angle away from the direction you want to winch. Use as many as necessary in a straight line. Put a chain over all of the rebar in a row to link them together. Like this photo from a 4x4 forum



Another tip, if the top of the bar is leaning too much when you winch. Tie the top of it off to another stake at the base of that stake.

This works for trucks, this will be more than enough for a quad. Heck for a quad on a 50% grade you could pull it out by hand with a pully system and proper prusik use.

[roughneckin]

Just talked with him again. They got a map of the area from the local map store and checked the area out. They thought they were still in the park, but as it turns out they are about 2kms out of the park now. So good and bad, good that at least not as big of a deal as not in a provincial park, but still bad cause he still can not cut any trees. But he does have about 2 more quads going out now and they all have winches. Guess they will be using them as an anchor and take a crap load of winches and snatch blocks and hopefully get it out the same way it went in.

Probably the best bet anyways.

[roughneckin]

Originally Posted by Baulde

Use rebar,

Pound it into the ground at an angle away from the direction you want to winch. Use as many as necessary in a straight line. Put a chain over all of the rebar in a row to link them together. Like this photo from a 4x4 forum



Another tip, if the top of the bar is leaning too much when you winch. Tie the top of it off to another stake at the base of that stake.

This works for trucks, this will be more than enough for a quad. Heck for a quad on a 50% grade you could pull it out by hand with a pully system and proper prusik use.

Perfect baulde I will send him this photo for use.
Thanks

[twofifty]

Great anchor, Baulde! Reminds me of a stacked snow picket anchor system.

To the op, you might want to make sure your friend brings along several rescue pulleys to act as force vector re-directors. This is because, inevitably, the line of pull from the quad winches will not necessarily be the line that the wrecked quad can be drug on. The dead quad will probably not want to roll very well, if at all. There will be obstacles (rocks, deadfall, stumps) along the way, the ground will be uneven, etc. These re-directing pulleys will need their own anchors, so bring lotsa webbing and carabiners.

Also, keep in mind that if your pulling force exceeds the strength of your winch cable(s) or that of the winch hook or its clamps, the cable will part and may injure someone as it sproings back.

I'd also bring a small chainsaw so you can cut some logs to use as levers or pry bars; the dead quad may need to be helped over an obstacle as the winch is pulling it up the hill. Also, a sound 8" dia. log wedged between two big rocks, or tied between two trees or tall stumps, can be a handy anchor spot for same. Might also help to fashion some wheel chocks for the quads that do the pulling.

Easy to say, but I'd love to ride along and help out - but that ain't gonna happen. Good luck.

[Cappy]

That anchor system is good in principal, but there is a potentially fatal flaw in using chain. (fatal in that it could fail). By using chain in the fashion described you can't pre-tension the anchors. If they aren't pre-tensioned you are in effect using four anchors that are independent of one another and the load isn't being shared between them. If one fails the slack in the system will be taken up very quickly and will "shock" load the system which can then cause a catastrophic failure in the remaining anchor points.

A better way would be to have the chain tight and then pound the rebar through the loaded chain. The best way to do it would be with a high quality rope like that used in high angle work and vector it tight. By doing that, the load is then divided equally over the anchor points and should one work loose the others are already supporting the load and don't run the risk of failing under shock.

[TreeGuy]

Cappy, you are correct. 'Shock Loading' can be catestrophic. I know this from not only delivering the loads, but a couple times BEING to load........

With that being said, Baulde is speaking from experince, and I will trust that more that I trust chain. Seems like a good system to me even with the chain. (IMHO, straps are better, do the research)

There 1000's of options with that one also. ie....... Dual setups or multiple setups depending on soil conditions and situation.

A simple 3 post rebar system like that will be forgiving enough to severly limit any chance of a 'shock load'. Not to say it can't happen, but it would be pretty unlikely.

Tree

[Baulde]

Yes, you want to avoid shock loading, as long as that system is tight to start with the soil/rebar will usually shift enough to tighten it up further.

The chain is only for that section, you hook up a strap at the end of the chain. There are setups with sewn straps in between the rebar but this can work in a pinch. This anchor is NOT for redirection when tugging hard. I would only use it for winching.

I will not use a chain to tug or pull anything with a shock load. But try not to stand in line with said anchor. Its always possible for all of them to come loose. And you do not want to be stuck between flying anything. And if any anchor you have makes you uncomfortable.... dont use it.

If you have the time, dig a large hole. Put a cable, chain, strap around a log and bury the log.

[Mad_Mikee]

Originally Posted by rae61

Does he carry any kind of insurance on the quad? If so I would call and see
what might be covered. I watched Dirty Jobs the other night where they recovered a 4x4 from under the ice... very cool and expensive too!!

I saw that episode as well. It wasnt that dirty, but it was still pretty cool to see.

[Rockymtnx]

I know most Heli companies will fly your sled out for $600.00
It might be easier just to spend the money and have it flown out.

What part of BC is it in?