Buying a gun across the border from a friend

[buckbrushoutdoors]

how much work is involved in doing this my friend has a cutsom rifle he wants to sell me but hes from New York state...has anyone ever done this before?

[Robmcleod82]

Get ahold of clay from Prophet river he could probably import it for you I would imagine it would cost between $200-300 He brought in a couple rifles for 2 buddies of mine. Clay is great to deal with.

Originally Posted by Robmcleod82

Get ahold of clay from Prophet river he could probably import it for you I would imagine it would cost between $200-300 He brought in a couple rifles for 2 buddies of mine. Clay is great to deal with.

Yup, definitely the simplest way.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Yup, definitely the simplest way.

thought you might have a new avatar pic by now

[buckbrushoutdoors]

how long would this whole process take... I did something really stupid today I put a down payment on a new christensen arms rifle which is my dream rifle, but my friends rifle is a way better built custom from Hart.

Originally Posted by buckbrushoutdoors

how long would this whole process take... I did something really stupid today I put a down payment on a new christensen arms rifle which is my dream rifle, but my friends rifle is a way better built custom from Hart.

Talk to Clay but I'm guessing 6 months minimum.

[buckbrushoutdoors]

just talked to him its between 2 and 4 weeks

[duceman]

go with the 6 month reply, you won't be let down ,lee

[elkhunter11]

go with the 6 month reply, you won't be let down ,lee

Having used Clay's services, 4 weeks would be much closer for importing a rifle.However,I have been waiting three months for a couple of handguns.

[armyLineman]

Post Canada or American postal service, Ground Freight only

Rifle must be registered to your name prior to shipping

fax registration to your friend..

Ship unloaded locked firearm in locked case with registration, receipt of sale and both you and your buddy's contact info... just to be safe.





Done

No custom fee



Call customs canada if you dont believe me.

Pierre

[forest walker]

I knew a guy that had his friend come here hunting on a hunter host deal they set up. He was from Michigan and when he left to go home he left the gun here. He then sent the info in to get it registered no problems. Seemed to be fine with the authorities but I am not sure. This was 2 years ago and maybe things have changed.

There are lots of things that are fine with the Canadian government that aren't fine with the U.S. government. Any U.S. citizen mailing, shipping or leaving a gun in Canada without the proper U.S. paperwork could face some very serious Federal charges. I have no doubt that guys have done it without jumping through all the hoops but they broke the law.........

[elkhunter11]

I knew a guy that had his friend come here hunting on a hunter host deal they set up. He was from Michigan and when he left to go home he left the gun here. He then sent the info in to get it registered no problems.

If the gun was brought into Canada with the proper paperwork that a visiting American needs to obtain,to bring the gun into Canada for a hunt,then the serial number should have been recorded.As such,when the Canadian citizen tried to register the gun,the CFC should have known that the gun was not legally imported,and denied the registration.This just further shows the ineptness of the CFC.

[TheClash]

clay is awesome....takes 2-4 weeks usually...handguns take a bit more time. easy peasy with clay helping you.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

There are lots of things that are fine with the Canadian government that aren't fine with the U.S. government. Any U.S. citizen mailing, shipping or leaving a gun in Canada without the proper U.S. paperwork could face some very serious Federal charges. I have no doubt that guys have done it without jumping through all the hoops but they broke the law.........

Sheephunter is right. You may get lucky but chances are your rifle will be confiscated and you will loose a friend.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the gun was brought into Canada with the proper paperwork that a visiting American needs to obtain,to bring the gun into Canada for a hunt,then the serial number should have been recorded.As such,when the Canadian citizen tried to register the gun,the CFC should have known that the gun was not legally imported,and denied the registration.This just further shows the ineptness of the CFC.

Not really...there really isn't much in the form of legal importation requirements in our firearm laws. According to Canadian law, there's nothing preventing me from going down to the U.S. and buying a gun and bringing it home or having a buddy ship one up to me as long as I declare it at the border. There's lots in U.S. law preventing it though. The Canadians aren't usually in the habit of enforcing U.S. law. While illegally exported, if the gun is registered by someone with a PAL, that's all that's required to meet Canadian firearm laws. While all the troubles at the border are typically blamed on Canadians, it's the U.S. government the bogs people down with permits. The Canadian government does, however, cooperate with the U.S. side on these matters. It's definitely not something worth messing with when they can be legally exported for a small fee and some paperwork.

[forest walker]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If the gun was brought into Canada with the proper paperwork that a visiting American needs to obtain,to bring the gun into Canada for a hunt,then the serial number should have been recorded.As such,when the Canadian citizen tried to register the gun,the CFC should have known that the gun was not legally imported,and denied the registration.This just further shows the ineptness of the CFC.

As sheephunter stated I would think it was illegal but I am not knowing in that department.
As for them matching the serial numbers up I would be surprised if the U.S would share their info with the Canadian side to find out if it was left here without the proper import papers. I don't know how they would track that info and I would imagine it would never get caught.

Don't they have to register them at the airport when they bring them in anyways? Would it not then just transfer the info from the registered owner after he had it registered to the new guy registering it? I don't know all the info but I thought this subject was interesting. I once had some inlaws in the U.S with guns they wanted to get rid of and thought it would have been too much to deal with so I told them to sell them down there.

[Big Racks]

Originally Posted by armyLineman

Post Canada or American postal service, Ground Freight only

Rifle must be registered to your name prior to shipping

fax registration to your friend..

Ship unloaded locked firearm in locked case with registration, receipt of sale and both you and your buddy's contact info... just to be safe.





Done

No custom fee



Call customs canada if you dont believe me.

Pierre

And then when you've got off the phone with them, call the US State Dept (go figure, not ATF or Dept of Defense). They will tell you that it is illegal to export firearms without proper documentation and approval.

If your friend is caught shipping it out of country, or if you're caught at a checkpoint prior to crossing the border, he or you will be charged. You would lose the firearm and most likely your vehicle as well will be seized.

Internet advice is worth what you pay for it so be careful with something as serious as this. Advice like that offered above can be dangerous. As mentioned, check with someone who handles these exports on a regular basis (Clay is a prime example) and they'll give you the straight goods without the guesswork.

[elkhunter11]

Not really...there really isn't much in the form of legal importation requirements in our firearm laws. According to Canadian law, there's nothing preventing me from going down to the U.S. and buying a gun and bringing it home or having a buddy ship one up to me as long as I declare it at the border.

I am no expert on the topic,but the person that does import firearms for me from the USA, explained that documentation was required to legally import a firearm into Canada,and that the documentation could not be completed until the Export permit was obtained from the US authorities.

As for them matching the serial numbers up I would be surprised if the U.S would share their info with the Canadian side to find out if it was left here without the proper import papers. I don't know how they would track that info and I would imagine it would never get caught.

When an American brings a firearm into Canada to use on a hunt,he must fill out a declaration form with the Canadian authorities.As such,the Canadian authorities would already have the serial number of that gun without having to have the US authorities share any information.

The official regulations are below.:

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publicati...-eng.html#P008

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I am no expert on the topic,but the person that does import firearms for me from the USA, explained that documentation was required to legally import a firearm into Canada,and that the documentation could not be completed until the Export permit was obtained from the US authorities.



When an American brings a firearm into Canada to use on a hunt,he must fill out a registration form with the Canadian authorities.As such,the Canadian authorities would already have the serial number of that gun without having to have the US authorities share any information.

I think you may have misunderstood the explaination a bit but either way, the paperwork was basically invented to satisfy the U.S. export requirements and that paperwork has absolutely nothing to do with our firearm laws. It's strictly to do with trade.

Yes an American must register a firearm at the border but there's nothing in the Canadian firearm laws that prevents him from transfering it to a PAL holder. I think you are missing the point, it's the U.S. that has the onerous regulations regarding exportation. The Candians just want the GST and duty if applicable. You are confusing firearm laws and trade laws.

[elkhunter11]

I think you may have misunderstood the explaination a bit but either way, the paperwork was basically invented to satisfy the U.S. export requirements and that paperwork has absolutely nothing to do with our firearm laws. It's strictly to do with trade.

Yes an American must register a firearm at the border but there's nothing in the Canadian firearm laws that prevents him from transfering it to a PAL holder. I think you are missing the point, it's the U.S. that has the onerous regulations regarding exportation. The Candians just want the GST and duty if applicable. You are confusing firearm laws and trade laws.

In order to legally import a firearm into Canada,would a Canadian citizen not be required to comply with all Canadian laws,be they firearms laws,or trade laws?Would a violation of any Canadian laws dealing with the import,result in the importation being illegal?

[forest walker]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I think you may have misunderstood the explaination a bit but either way, the paperwork was basically invented to satisfy the U.S. export requirements and that paperwork has absolutely nothing to do with our firearm laws. It's strictly to do with trade.

Yes an American must register a firearm at the border but there's nothing in the Canadian firearm laws that prevents him from transfering it to a PAL holder. I think you are missing the point, it's the U.S. that has the onerous regulations regarding exportation. The Candians just want the GST and duty if applicable. You are confusing firearm laws and trade laws.

So if someone legally brings it across the border to hunt or shoot trap and leaves it here from what I am hearing is nobody will really care??
I can see if someone tried to ship it over then there may be problems but if they were to legally bring it over it would be hard to prove anything really as far as I see it. I imagine it happens more than we would like to know anyways and I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble trying to register a gun that was brought over this way.

I guess the safest way is to get a guy to import it for you for the cost anyways.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

In order to legally import a firearm into Canada,would a Canadian citizen not be required to comply with all Canadian laws,be they firearms laws,or trade laws?Would a violation of any Canadian laws dealing with the import,result in the importation being illegal?

Once again, you are confusing trade and firearm laws. Try bringing a firearm home from a country other than the U.S. and you'll find the paperwork changes according to the country and their export laws. Canada is actually pretty lax about the importation on non-prohibited firearms by PAL holders. Forget about the exportation paperwork for a minute. Show up at the border with a gun that you've pre registered and declared and there's no paperwork required by Canadian law. As you said, you aren't that familiar with these laws...it's showing.

Moral of the story is that getting a gun into Canada from the U.S. is a hassle because of the U.S. government...not the Canadian. Not sure I can simplify this any more for you.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by forest walker

So if someone legally brings it across the border to hunt or shoot trap and leaves it here from what I am hearing is nobody will really care??
QUOTE]

Not sure whoyou are hearing that from. There are some folks on the south side of the 49th that will really care and that someone could face some very serious federal charges. The best advice is to always follow all the laws to letter when dealing with firearms.

[benamen]

I would have to think requirements for a temporary export of a firearm from the U.S. would differ from the requirements for a permanent export. The person leaving the firearm behind after a hunt would have broken some U.S. regulations.

Here is another resource for exporting firearms from the U.S. if a person is closer to central Canada.
http://www.questarinternational.com/exporting.html

[elkhunter11]

Try bringing a firearm home from a country other than the U.S. and you'll find the paperwork changes according to the country and their export laws.

The OP was asking about a gun from New York,so it involves all of the American regulations.What is required in importing firearms from other countries is irrelevant in this case.

Forget about the exportation paperwork for a minute. Show up at the border with a gun that you've pre registered and declared and there's no paperwork required by Canadian law

But in order to pre register a firearm that you are importing from the USA,would you not have had to complete the export paperwork beforehand?If so,you can't forget about the export paperwork if want to legally import the gun.

As you said, you aren't that familiar with these laws...it's showing.

Which is why I have Clay handle the importing for me.By the way,I spoke with him this morning as to the progress of two firearms that he is currenty importing for me.I did ask him about the process,and although he did tell me that the paperwork is mostly to satisfy the US regulations,he specifically told me that you can't legally import the firearms until the Canadian authorities have authorized the import.As such,bringing the firearms into the country without authorization from the Canadian authorities,could result in the firearms being seized,and the person bringing the firearms into the country facing charges.

I am also having Clay import a handgun for me,and he informs me that the American paperwork has been complete for months,and the Canadian paperwork is what is holding up the importation of the gun.Apparently the Canadian authorities do care enough to have delayed the import paperwork for so long.

Since I am by no means an expert on the topic,I am trusting that the information Clay is providing me with is correct.

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

But in order to pre register a firearm that you are importing from the USA,would you not have had to complete the export paperwork beforehand?If so,you can't forget about the export paperwork if want to legally import the gun.

NOPE...You just need the make, model, barrel length and serial number


Which is why I have Clay handle the importing for me..

An excellent idea...he does a great job!

As such,bringing the firearms into the country without authorization from the Canadian authorities,could result in the firearms being seized,and the person bringing the firearms into the country facing charges.

You originally blamed this on the firearm legislation is the country and I've repeated told you that it has nothing to do with our firearm legislation. There is an import form to fill out so our government can get their pound of flesh but it's got NOTHING to with firearm laws.

As for the rest, I've explained it enough times that I'm sure everyone else gets it and since you rely on Clay, no need to waste any more bandwidth on explaining it further.

Since I am by no means an expert on the topic,I am trusting that the information Clay is providing me with is correct.

Of that I have no doubt. It's just your comprehension that I question.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post

But in order to pre register a firearm that you are importing from the USA,would you not have had to complete the export paperwork beforehand?If so,you can't forget about the export paperwork if want to legally import the gun.

NOPE...You just need the make, model, barrel length and serial number

Remember that this is only possible due to the amnesty that the Harper government keeps puttin in place. If the amnesty weren't there you would be charged for having an unregistered firearm. Let the Liberals back in and they will undoubtedly plug that loophole.

Originally Posted by lclund1946

Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post

But in order to pre register a firearm that you are importing from the USA,would you not have had to complete the export paperwork beforehand?If so,you can't forget about the export paperwork if want to legally import the gun.

NOPE...You just need the make, model, barrel length and serial number

Remember that this is only possible due to the amnesty that the Harper government keeps puttin in place. If the amnesty weren't there you would be charged for having an unregistered firearm. Let the Liberals back in and they will undoubtedly plug that loophole.

No, you actually register it as a newly imported firearm...it's got nothing to do with the amnesty. Nothing will change if/when the amnesty expires.

[benamen]

Seems there is very little required for a U.S. citizen to transport a firearm out of the country. Might be easy to bring across a rifle and never return with it.

Traveling outside of the U.S. - Temporarily taking a firearm, rifle, gun or shotgun abroad for hunting purposes
Published 01/23/2003 06:35 PM | Updated 05/14/2010 04:03 PM
What is the process for a traveler temporarily taking a firearm, rifle, gun or shotgun abroad for hunting purposes?
Customs and Border Protection (CBP) advises travelers to register their firearms prior to taking them overseas to expedite clearance upon their return to the United States.

The traveler must physically take the firearm to a CBP office and have a CBP Officer record the serial number and description on a CBP Form 4457 Certificate of Registration and stamp it.

The CBP Officer will give the traveler the Certificate of Registration form to present upon their return to the United States.