Go Back   Alberta Outdoorsmen Forum > Main Category > Hunting Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-13-2022, 06:26 AM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: onoway, Ab
Posts: 6,956
Default Winter Kill

With the volume of snow that we have and now warm weather and rain Mother Nature is setting up for a pretty significant winter kill of our deer herds I believe.

As soon as we get colder temps the coyotes will be able to run on the snow making the deer easy pickens..
The deer are really starting to come into bale yards and without this supplemental feed I think the winter kill could be as bad as ten years ago.

What do you guys think?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-13-2022, 06:41 AM
ram crazy ram crazy is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,843
Default

The Pronghorn are doing just fine, just seen a couple hundred head all packed together. Deer are looking ok too.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-13-2022, 06:43 AM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is offline
Gone Hunting
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
Default

It's not a good year to be a Deer.

I haven't seen a track in my yard in two weeks. That's the longest it's gone without fresh tracks since we moved here 11 years ago.

No rain here yet, but the snow is up to their bellies already and we have three more months of snow coming.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-13-2022, 07:08 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,325
Default

It’s not off to a good start but a lot can change and I am going to try to be optimistic

Only time will tell but it’s not going to be an easy winter for them
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-13-2022, 07:16 AM
Big Lou's Avatar
Big Lou Big Lou is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: AB
Posts: 800
Default

I agree. The stage was set with the quantity of snow so far. Big cold snap. Now the rain and warm temps. Time will tell, but it’s not looking good.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-13-2022, 07:56 AM
pikeslayer22 pikeslayer22 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,701
Default

One thing they have going for them is the coyote population is way down at the moment
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-13-2022, 08:02 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,325
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pikeslayer22 View Post
One thing they have going for them is the coyote population is way down at the moment
In my areas the wolf and cougar populations are high. I would trade for coyotes any day

Really need cougar season to start in November not December
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:04 AM
HuntingAlberta's Avatar
HuntingAlberta HuntingAlberta is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 447
Default

we don't have much or any snow in the south. But we do have tons of Cougar and wolves.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:08 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,902
Default

The deer are living on borrowed time around here. Hard crust on everything now and coyotes will walk on top.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:22 AM
Grizzly Adams1 Grizzly Adams1 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,682
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper View Post
The deer are living on borrowed time around here. Hard crust on everything now and coyotes will walk on top.
I'm more optimistic. Cold spells are normal and the deer still have access to feed, I see them every day.

Grizz
__________________
Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there is no place, that they be alone in the midst of the Earth.

Isaiah 5:8
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:24 AM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,902
Default

Deep snow and now crust kills them. Found one dead already.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:26 AM
Natek Natek is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 207
Default

Get out and shoot as many coyotes as you can
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:40 AM
marky_mark marky_mark is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,701
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper View Post
The deer are living on borrowed time around here. Hard crust on everything now and coyotes will walk on top.
Yep
It’s the worst for them
We had it bad about 4 years ago too and it took a big toll on all the old mature bucks
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:05 AM
sage 13 sage 13 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
In my areas the wolf and cougar populations are high. I would trade for coyotes any day

Really need cougar season to start in November not December
What are your areas,, and what are the wolf and cat populations at when you say there high.
What difference does it make if season starts in November.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:25 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,325
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage 13 View Post
What are your areas,, and what are the wolf and cat populations at when you say there high.
What difference does it make if season starts in November.
300’s near Drayton

For cougar numbers their tracks are common in a lot of the pockets I hunt and it would not take much for me to put a houndsmen on cougars. We get random sightings each year and I have called in cougars 2 out of my last 3 seasons in the area

Wish cougar were open in November so I could take one that I call in well deer hunting. This year I had to put a warning shot in the dirt with a cougar at less then 10yards

Wolf sign is very common and I find there kill sites scouting. I have had a few deer pockets drop off to almost nothing but no lack of wolf crap and deer hair at the end of winter

I do know a few locals that have been hitting the wolves and it’s helping in some areas

I spend a lot of time hiking in the bush scouting year round so I find the pockets where everything is. Cougars and wolves are not behind every bush but they definitely key in on the good deer pockets
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:59 AM
Drewski Canuck Drewski Canuck is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,918
Default

The deer did not face a really hard stretch of cold like the - 54 C that hit in January 2010.

Deer can take - 30 C early in the winter. That is when their body fat reserves are highest.

It is March that is the problem. If the deer cannot get to the best feed source and they are in a weak state because of alot of cold weather and deep snow, they are on borrowed time. Be concerned for -30 C in March. That is when the die off will happen.

Right now in north east Alberta there is only about 1 foot of snow in the bush. Deer can get through that even if there is a crust. We are not at 3 or 4 foot of snow in the bush.

Bush deer have lots of good browse in the willow bottoms right now, as do elk and moose. If the warm snap is long enough and the snow pack drops, they will be able to get to better feed sources and will be OK.

Drewski
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:21 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,290
Default

Around here I’m seeing the same as what Drewski stated above. There’s only about a foot of snow in the bush around here and not a ton more in open fields. Snow drifts along tree lines might be a couple of feet but that bit of rain that we got off and on the last couple of days may have melted it a bit. It’s not nearly as bad around here as about ten years. What year was that anyway.....2010?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-13-2022, 05:30 PM
Ackleyman Ackleyman is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Strathmore
Posts: 1,369
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck View Post
The deer did not face a really hard stretch of cold like the - 54 C that hit in January 2010.

Deer can take - 30 C early in the winter. That is when their body fat reserves are highest.

It is March that is the problem. If the deer cannot get to the best feed source and they are in a weak state because of alot of cold weather and deep snow, they are on borrowed time. Be concerned for -30 C in March. That is when the die off will happen.

Right now in north east Alberta there is only about 1 foot of snow in the bush. Deer can get through that even if there is a crust. We are not at 3 or 4 foot of snow in the bush.

Bush deer have lots of good browse in the willow bottoms right now, as do elk and moose. If the warm snap is long enough and the snow pack drops, they will be able to get to better feed sources and will be OK.

Drewski
This is a fact.........its early January
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:21 PM
EdmontonEli EdmontonEli is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 82
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck View Post
The deer did not face a really hard stretch of cold like the - 54 C that hit in January 2010.

Deer can take - 30 C early in the winter. That is when their body fat reserves are highest.

It is March that is the problem. If the deer cannot get to the best feed source and they are in a weak state because of alot of cold weather and deep snow, they are on borrowed time. Be concerned for -30 C in March. That is when the die off will happen.

Right now in north east Alberta there is only about 1 foot of snow in the bush. Deer can get through that even if there is a crust. We are not at 3 or 4 foot of snow in the bush.

Bush deer have lots of good browse in the willow bottoms right now, as do elk and moose. If the warm snap is long enough and the snow pack drops, they will be able to get to better feed sources and will be OK.

Drewski
This is pretty much what I know. Deer, moose, and elk can survive in very cold weather. It's around March that show who'll survive or not. It's that time of the year where they burnt through their fat reserves but food hasn't start growing yet due to thaw just starting. Tbh, I wouldn't worry, animals are tougher than people think.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:20 PM
Dubious Dubious is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,521
Default

Just seen a heard of mule deer near Calgary of 75-100 animals as well as many other smaller beards of 5-30~ They all looked good to be in good shape to.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:47 PM
HunterDave HunterDave is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Copperhead Road, Morinville
Posts: 19,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubious View Post
Just seen a heard of mule deer near Calgary of 75-100 animals as well as many other smaller beards of 5-30~ They all looked good to be in good shape to.
Antlers on the bucks? I’ve been told that the longer the bucks sport their antlers the healthier they are. That seems about right from what I’ve seen.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-13-2022, 11:24 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 3,554
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoky buck View Post
In my areas the wolf and cougar populations are high. I would trade for coyotes any day

Really need cougar season to start in November not December
My own take on winter kill, at least in my area... So long as we get harsh winters fairly regularly, the numbers dont seem to fluctuate too much. I'd say for about the last 7-8 years we've periodically had harsh winters, and the winter kills have not been too bad, with the poplulation kind of just hanging out on what I'd call the low side of average. Sure the truck hunters grumble, but there's still plenty of sign in the bush.

When one gets a good string of mild winters, and the population gets higher than average, thats when the potential of a bad winterkill becomes worrysome. I hear alot of guys pine over how good the deer numbers were in northern alberta 10-15 years ago, but that also eventually lead to some pretty severe winter kills and some very lean seasons.


This winter is not shaping up well for the deer, and with the very dry summer I doubt their brows situation is very good either. My own prediction is that numbers will be lower for the next few seasons, but I dont think the deer numbers got high enough for me to anticipate a severe winter kill. Just my own hunch.
__________________
If the good lord didnt want me to ride a four wheeler with no shirt on, then how come my nipples grow back after every wipeout?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-14-2022, 07:38 AM
KegRiver's Avatar
KegRiver KegRiver is offline
Gone Hunting
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: North of Peace River
Posts: 11,346
Default

Each area has it's own challenges for sure.

Here in NW Alberta we have over two feet of snow in the bush, a high Wolf population, about an average number of Coyote for around here and we just come out of three weeks of -35 to -40 for daytime highs.

I doubt many Deer have died yet but I'd bet they are running on empty about now. At least around here.

Like I said earlier, most years I have Deer in my yard almost every day but there has not been a fresh track in my yard in the past three weeks.

I was over at my sister's this afternoon. Same thing over there except they are seeing Deer, right in front of the house. She said they come in for some stale Canola she put out for the birds and even the dog does not scare them off.
Because of the dog they very rarely see Deer in the yard and when they do come in the don't stay for long. Usually no more then a couple of minutes.

Plus from seeing 15 or twenty a day this fall they are seeing three now, and not many tracks in their pasture. That pasture is usually tramped down by Deer this time of year. Today I counted six tracks of varying vintage when I crossed it.

Two or three days of -40 is no problem for a healthy Deer but 20 days in a row wears them down. And the deep snow here means they have to work harder to fill their bellies.

My guess is they are holed up in the thick stuff, too weak to look for better feed.

I would not be the least surprised if we lost half the herd in the next three months.
__________________
Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.

George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-14-2022, 08:08 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 7,325
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
My own take on winter kill, at least in my area... So long as we get harsh winters fairly regularly, the numbers dont seem to fluctuate too much. I'd say for about the last 7-8 years we've periodically had harsh winters, and the winter kills have not been too bad, with the poplulation kind of just hanging out on what I'd call the low side of average. Sure the truck hunters grumble, but there's still plenty of sign in the bush.

When one gets a good string of mild winters, and the population gets higher than average, thats when the potential of a bad winterkill becomes worrysome. I hear alot of guys pine over how good the deer numbers were in northern alberta 10-15 years ago, but that also eventually lead to some pretty severe winter kills and some very lean seasons.


This winter is not shaping up well for the deer, and with the very dry summer I doubt their brows situation is very good either. My own prediction is that numbers will be lower for the next few seasons, but I dont think the deer numbers got high enough for me to anticipate a severe winter kill. Just my own hunch.
Your post is bang on

The closer the habitat is to max carrying capacity the bigger the crash during a harsh winter.

The quality of brows going into winter is also one many overlook and our past dry year is definitely going to help

It’s definitely not going to be an easy winter for deer but it’s all going to depend on how long winter hangs around. That final stretch when deer are well into their reserves is when they are most at risk. If we get an early spring it could really limit the loss

Either way populations will rise and fall at Mother Natures will. Personally I will wait and see what the impact is when it is over then adjust as needed
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-14-2022, 08:11 AM
mac1983 mac1983 is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Peace Country
Posts: 573
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
Antlers on the bucks? I’ve been told that the longer the bucks sport their antlers the healthier they are. That seems about right from what I’ve seen.
I've seen a few Mule Deer with antlers the last few days in the South Peace. They are looking pretty healthy around here.
__________________
Raised on the farm in the bush and on the rigs...
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-14-2022, 10:50 AM
JReed's Avatar
JReed JReed is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cochrane
Posts: 738
Default

Still seeing the local mulies that were around before the cold snap, they look healthy. They’re a pretty hardy species though, I wonder if the whitetail fair the same? I’d think maybe whitetail recruitment would be a little less in similar conditions?

Hopefully that sustained cold snap was long enough to knock off some of those damn pine beetles
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-15-2022, 11:29 AM
Dubious Dubious is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HunterDave View Post
Antlers on the bucks? I’ve been told that the longer the bucks sport their antlers the healthier they are. That seems about right from what I’ve seen.
Yes the bucks still had antlers. My trail cams in the foothills also have a lot of deer and bucks with antlers.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-15-2022, 12:34 PM
heretohunt's Avatar
heretohunt heretohunt is online now
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,229
Default

Winter weakens, spring kills.
Hope for a good spring.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-15-2022, 12:35 PM
coyotecaller coyotecaller is offline
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 161
Default

For sure going to be hard in the deer.
Not sure if you’ve guys noticed, but man, there are a lot more dead deer in the ditches.

My stretch between our house and town is 16 km, and I’ve counted since December 1, 21 dead deer. Usually 2-3 every year. And we’re seeing more dead deer on the backroads. They’re travelling right down roads now.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-16-2022, 11:11 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,224
Default

I bet road kill by vehicles is probably a greater danger to deer survival in tough winter. The deeper the snow more deer on our roads.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.