Mule Deer Allocations

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Yukon nwt 100% no

I don’t think anywhere in Canada except Alberta does but I could be wrong

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I don’t think anywhere in Canada except Alberta does but I could be wrong

I think your right

[MooseRiverTrapper]

I got a buddy from BC he’s here hunting all the time. Drawing tags more often then me lol.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Rumour is The Canadian resident is getting the shaft this fall as Alberta is supposedly getting rid of hunter host draws for Canadian residents for certain big game draw species like antelope,mule deer,etc.

On A side note if it was my choice a Saskatchewan resident wouldn’t get a big game tag in Alberta as we can’t even go there and hunt a whitetail doe without having a relative who lives there “IF” we get drawn...

That’s a good start.

[Smoky buck]

Seems like Alberta needs to think about how it handles all forms of non resident hunting

[Rackmastr]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Just curious does anyone know if any other provinces besides Alberta that allow non residents Canadians to apply for draws in the same draw pool as residents?

I know BC, sask, and I am pretty confident the Yukon doesn’t but have not looked at the others

BC doesnt allow non-residents in their draw, but to say that there isnt a ridiculous amount of opportunity in BC for a non-resident hunter would be putting it mildly.

Edit to add.....I'm continually grateful for the fact, and will continue to push for non-resident hunting opportunities so I can continue to hunt with friends and family and have those opportunities available to them over here.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

BC doesnt allow non-residents in their draw, but to say that there isnt a ridiculous amount of opportunity in BC for a non-resident hunter would be putting it mildly.

I know what BC offers I was born there and have hunted a lot of the province. Still have friends and family there too. I also realize only a portion of BCs hunts are poor quality really and many opportunities are declining too. Northern 1/3 is is fairly nice though

I know BCs host program well and what it offers and it’s restrictions. I think Alberta should follow suite. None residents should only have general season opportunities under the host program. Anything under concern for general should be restricted just the same

Maybe if BC had at the min none resident draws I might think different. I know it would go over like a lead balloon with BC residents though

Might head to the QCI with my brother next year since he was out here for whitetail last year. Nothing wrong with none resident opportunities but not for species where residents are restricted to waiting years

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

BC doesnt allow non-residents in their draw, but to say that there isnt a ridiculous amount of opportunity in BC for a non-resident hunter would be putting it mildly.

Edit to add.....I'm continually grateful for the fact, and will continue to push for non-resident hunting opportunities so I can continue to hunt with friends and family and have those opportunities available to them over here.

And Alberta should do the same as BC. Allow non-residents to hunt any species that residents are not required to draw.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by huntwat

And Alberta should do the same as BC. Allow non-residents to hunt any species that residents are not required to draw.

Can’t hunt stone sheep that are open to residents. Some goat areas that are general opening the application will be denied. Some caribou areas too. Big horn is another basically no go

It goes beyond if they are on draw but some you won’t know till you apply for a host license. I know this from some who have had applications denied and I know a few BC bios pretty good

[Rackmastr]

These convos always make me laugh. Not hard to see why we continue to lose non resident hunting rights in all provinces. Ah well, it's been fun while it lasted.

Shame multiple provinces couldn't get some working groups together to work on it, but most people just care about their home turf.

A lot of US states sure have it right. Shocking there aren't more Americans demanding that the hunts be shut down to non resident Canadians for a lack of 'reciprocity'

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Easy answer. No more outfitting on private land. It’s been suggested here many times.

That makes sense lol
Cram more people into the same area that gets criticized for lower success rates

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

That makes sense lol
Cram more people into the same area that gets criticized for lower success rates

Not that I think it’s a good idea but if you are still following allocation % for the area you would not be cramming more people into an area

It would cost a large portion of Alberta outfitters to go under though because essentially there would not be enough opportunity

Personally I would just be happy if allocations were kept to a set % for each WMU no Covid relief tags either. Also being more strict about infractions would be nice. No need to kill the industry but it should be kept honest

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Not that I think it’s a good idea but if you are still following allocation % for the area you would not be cramming more people into an area

It would cost a large portion of Alberta outfitters to go under though because essentially there would not be enough opportunity

Personally I would just be happy if allocations were kept to a set % for each WMU no Covid relief tags either. Also being more strict about infractions would be nice. No need to kill the industry but it should be kept honest

I agree
Covid tags were for one year if I’m not mistaken, but at any rate they aren’t a long term deal.
I don’t think there is any solution when populations can’t be managed correctly due to unregulated hunting
Unless this is addressed
The rest is pointless

[Torkdiesel]

You people make me laugh !!!

Same people whining for the last 15 years about the same thing. Other then Covid allocations I guess.
You’d rather see an outfitter lose everything he’s worked his whole life for, then to wait .1 year more for a draw that’s an hour closer to your house.

Greed never changes…..

[SLH]

What a pathetic take.

That rational works both ways.

Greedy ****in outfitters.

[calgarychef]

I haven’t but I do like the option of being able to host my buddies from other provinces. All provinces should have some sort of hunter host program.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

I haven’t but I do like the option of being able to host my buddies from other provinces. All provinces should have some sort of hunter host program.

Host programs are good if done correctly. I host people for whitetail living here in Alberta and I used the host program in BC when living there too

Having none residents in the same draw pool as residents is not and that is likely why no other province does this.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by SLH

What a pathetic take.

That rational works both ways.

Greedy ****in outfitters.

X2

[MooseRiverTrapper]

The only thing unanimous on AO is the hate for outfitters on here.

[SLH]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

The only thing unanimous on AO is the hate for outfitters on here.

Another poor take. Much of the outfitter rage on here is deserved. There have been a steady stream of unethical, criminal acts perpetuated by guide outfitters over the past many years and very little if any support by them for local resident hunters.

That said its an industry many of us need and support but not at the expense of all other hunters in this province.

10% is generous, manageable and profitable. The problem residents have is we don't seem to have the interest groups (ie AFGA) fighting for our interests like APOS does for outfitters.

This has to end. The zone I like to hunt is now 50% outfitter tags and the wait time is 5 to 6 years. My hunting privileges shouldn't take a backseat to some outfitters profit margin.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

The only thing unanimous on AO is the hate for outfitters on here.

With names like Garrett, Cahoon, Shmyr, Duhamel, Scott, McMahon, Bunnage, Brown, Cassidy, Fedorovich and David leading the way in bad news for guides/ outfitters. And APOS doing nothing to penalize them, it’s no wonder there is a bad taste in collective AO members mouths.
I’m not saying all APOS members are like the above mentioned, but, I don’t think I would be wrong saying that there are most likely quite a few more that haven’t been caught …….yet.
Publicity is not in their favour.

[Salavee]

Originally Posted by SLH

Another poor take. Much of the outfitter rage on here is deserved. There have been a steady stream of unethical, criminal acts perpetuated by guide outfitters over the past many years and very little if any support by them for local resident hunters.

That said its an industry many of us need and support but not at the expense of all other hunters in this province.

10% is generous, manageable and profitable. The problem residents have is we don't seem to have the interest groups (ie AFGA) fighting for our interests like APOS does for outfitters.

This has to end. The zone I like to hunt is now 50% outfitter tags and the wait time is 5 to 6 years. My hunting privileges shouldn't take a backseat to some outfitters profit margin.

For the most part ,I agree but I would really like to know what is meant by the "need and support" thing.
Seems to me the Alberta economy wouldn't even blink if the whole darn works of that industry were elminated. Right now our Big Game hunting opportunities are on a steep decline and will continue to be until they barely exist. Those who are in the Entertainment business of fulfilling hunting opportunities for non-residents in a Province that is experiencing rapid declines in nearly every area, are accelerating this scenario.
Most Outfitters are not totally reliant on their BG Allocations to make a living anyway. I'll bet over 80% of them have other careers that contribute most of thier annual income. To them, Outfitting is simply a glorified hobby, and with many of thier allocations owned by Non resident alien clients

Having said that, eliminating those who currently earn less than 80 % of thier annual income from Outfitting related sources make sense under the existing circumsatances. Plus, it makes it easier for all Residents,including Landowners, (who pay the bills to maintain the resource). Any Allocations, currently owned by Non resident aliens (which are many) should also be eliminated.

Thats the way I've seen it since the 80's and it sure as heck isn't getting any better.

[45-70GOV]

Originally Posted by SLH

This has to end. The zone I like to hunt is now 50% outfitter tags and the wait time is 5 to 6 years. My hunting privileges shouldn't take a backseat to some outfitters profit margin.

Bingo.
i fully agree that wildlife harvest should be heavily prioritized toward residents of the province.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by 45-70GOV

Bingo.
i fully agree that wildlife harvest should be heavily prioritized toward residents of the province.

Always, with no exception!!!

[sir_charlie]

Originally Posted by SLH

Another poor take. Much of the outfitter rage on here is deserved. There have been a steady stream of unethical, criminal acts perpetuated by guide outfitters over the past many years and very little if any support by them for local resident hunters.

That said its an industry many of us need and support but not at the expense of all other hunters in this province.

10% is generous, manageable and profitable. The problem residents have is we don't seem to have the interest groups (ie AFGA) fighting for our interests like APOS does for outfitters.

This has to end. The zone I like to hunt is now 50% outfitter tags and the wait time is 5 to 6 years. My hunting privileges shouldn't take a backseat to some outfitters profit margin.

What is the steady stream of unethical and criminal acts? Are these documented somewhere as cases? I don’t support the overallocation to outfitters that currently exists - simply asking cause it’s a big deal to indicate some outfitters are committing crimes and a few posts on here seem to suggest it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by SLH

What a pathetic take.

That rational works both ways.

Greedy ****in outfitters.

outfitters investing hundreds of thousands of dollars and wanting 10% of the allocated tags ?

You’re right !!! So so greedy

Overall across all species outfitters are currently sitting at what 2-3% maybe of allocated tags ?

Yep, just overrun with them lol

you’ll never stop crying anyway…. carry on 👍

[marky_mark]

In 2011 there was 287000 draw applications
In 2020 there was 445000

Pretty easy to see where the problem is

When it cost $1/draw application
The system gets abused
People figure out how to manipulate it to work in their interests

We also went from 85000 hunters in 2005 to 151000 in 2020

Resident hunting is a resource we undervalue and we under appreciate

Guys complain about outfitters making money, yet they are too cheap to to pay a few bucks more to hunt themselves

[7magtime]

[QUOTE=sir_charlie;4471438]What is the steady stream of unethical and criminal acts? Are these documented somewhere as cases? I don’t support the overallocation to outfitters that currently exists - simply asking cause it’s a big deal to indicate some outfitters are committing crimes and a few posts on here seem to suggest it.


Here’s just a few involving outfitters after a quick search….

https://m.facebook.com/1579802275611...4719164786800/

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3543879

https://www.fortmcmurraytoday.com/ne...108ef23c8b/amp

https://www.stalberttoday.ca/beyond-...-guide-3562732

https://www.yukon-news.com/news/albe...oose-hunt/amp/


The bigger question is how did APOS deal with these convicted outfitters/poachers??

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

In 2011 there was 287000 draw applications
In 2020 there was 445000

Pretty easy to see where the problem is

When it cost $1/draw application
The system gets abused
People figure out how to manipulate it to work in their interests

We also went from 85000 hunters in 2005 to 151000 in 2020

Resident hunting is a resource we undervalue and we under appreciate

Guys complain about outfitters making money, yet they are too cheap to to pay a few bucks more to hunt themselves

Alberta definitely needs to improve on residency requirements because there is lots of cheating there. I know it was really bad when the oil field was busy

I don’t think it’s a matter of increasing fees but more so thin out some of the abuse

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by huntwat

With names like Garrett, Cahoon, Shmyr, Duhamel, Scott, McMahon, Bunnage, Brown, Cassidy, Fedorovich and David leading the way in bad news for guides/ outfitters. And APOS doing nothing to penalize them, it’s no wonder there is a bad taste in collective AO members mouths.
I’m not saying all APOS members are like the above mentioned, but, I don’t think I would be wrong saying that there are most likely quite a few more that haven’t been caught …….yet.
Publicity is not in their favour.

I could go down to Vegreville courthouse on a Thursday pre-covid and give you a longer list of resident hunters with gross misconduct towards wildlife and landowners while hunting. So what is your point?