Mule Deer Allocations

[SLH]

I'm sure the management plan states only 10% allocated to outfitters. Many of the high priority mountain, foothill zones are way above that.

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/4550...eason-2021.pdf

Am I reading this right?

Is AFGA aware of this (a bit rhetorical as I will be contacting them soon)?

[HuntingAlberta]

Looks pretty close or low in most zones? Or are you factoring in the covid relief from not being allowed hunters in for two years?

[SLH]

Check out WMU 300 and up.

324-330

Many 400's

[Pathfinder76]

300, 302, the list goes on. I’ve brought this up multiple times.

[sir_charlie]

Fairly certain AFGA and others are aware. The government also addressed this question several times during their educational seminars last month on wildlife management and allocations.

My take away from their answers in the seminars - they review the outfitter allocations on a 5-yr cycle (allows outfitters to business plan) but have cancelled/delayed the last 5-yr review several times.

As a result, while they have been making changes to tags for residents, they have not been able to adjust the allocations to outfitters since that is only done as part of the 5yr review. Thus leading to, in some WMUs for some species, outfitters having more than 10% of the allocation and in some rare cases even more tags than residents. It’s also been discussed in a few other posts on this forum - lots of opinions out there on this subject but bottom line is government needs to stop delaying the review.

The cynic in me thinks it’s being delayed because if they lower the outfitter tags (which would likely be the outcome to meet the 10% criteria) it would reduce revenues and the province is strapped for cash still.


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[heretohunt]

Where do you find sheep allocations? Specifically 410. There were 5. 10%of the resident tags.
Used to be 50 residents and then 30 now 25. Wait times have doubled since the last time I was drawn. I’m wondering if I’m going to be too old the next time. Or if my kids will ever get that opportunity.

[Soab]

306, 400 wow

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Mountain moose and antelope tag ratios way out of whack as well. The resident hunter is getting the shaft.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by SLH

Check out WMU 300 and up.

324-330

Many 400's

Check out 100-324

I would bet that a large number of the foothills and mountain allocations go unsold or unfilled every year. They are typically an add on for a moose or elk hunt.

[whitetail Junkie]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

The resident hunter is getting the shaft.

Rumour is The Canadian resident is getting the shaft this fall as Alberta is supposedly getting rid of hunter host draws for Canadian residents for certain big game draw species like antelope,mule deer,etc.

On A side note if it was my choice a Saskatchewan resident wouldn’t get a big game tag in Alberta as we can’t even go there and hunt a whitetail doe without having a relative who lives there “IF” we get drawn...

[huntwat]

The allotment for outfitters do not go by wmu’s. It goes by “area” . Which means 2-5 wmu’s put together. ( which is total bull****). If you email ESRD they will explain it much better than me. If wmu xxx has 20 mule tag draws and outfitters are allotted 15 tags for that “area” which wmu xxx is in, all their tags may be in wmu xxx.

[Pathfinder76]

It’s a “made up as we go” type situation. Always has been.

[albertadave]

Alberta needs to get rid of the ridiculous system of outfitters owning allocations, and the 5 year review cycle, that now it sounds like isn't even happening. Scrap it completely. Go to a system like pretty much every state uses. Non-residents enter the draws along side residents, 5% of the licenses (adjusted yearly depending on the total number of tags available that year) set aside for non-residents. When they draw, they hire an outfitter to take them. So simple, and works really well to the south of us.

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Alberta needs to get rid of the ridiculous system of outfitters owning allocations, and the 5 year review cycle, that now it sounds like isn't even happening. Scrap it completely. Go to a system like pretty much every state uses. Non-residents enter the draws along side residents, 5% of the licenses (adjusted yearly depending on the total number of tags available that year) set aside for non-residents. When they draw, they hire an outfitter to take them. So simple, and works really well to the south of us.

Along with paid access? And land owners permits?

[koothunter]

I'm sure this won't sit well with many here, but the landowner allocations for some zones is BS as well. Check out WMU 300, 108, 134, etc.

[EZM]

Best thing to do here is keep the pressure on them until they revaluate and redistribute the tag split.

And when they do, I'm 100% sure we will still have some of the same oversight.

[huntwat]

There should be no non-resident tags for any species that residents have to wait more than 3 years to get drawn for.
Landowner tags should only be non-trophy.

[Sledhead71]

Originally Posted by huntwat

There should be no non-resident tags for any species that residents have to wait more than 3 years to get drawn for.
Landowner tags should only be non-trophy.

Your fairly hung up on Landowner permits, it has been explained to you why these are in place.... What if all the private lands here in Alberta were removed from the table or access was paid ? These people who allow access receive nothing for being accommodating to mostly strangers.

Respect goes both ways, something I fear you are missing.

[7magtime]

I reached out to AEP after the engagement seminars last month as I too was not impressed with the current imbalance of high outfitter to resident allocations in many WMU's and also that the 5 year outfitter allocations review has lapsed.

Here is some of the responses and information I received from AEP below:


The last 5-year agreement expired in 2017. In preparation for determining the 5-yr allocation renewal, Environment and Parks, through the Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee (AGPAC), initiated the development of a provincial allocation policy. As I am sure you can appreciate, this discussion was complicated, with competing stakeholder interests having to be considered that included not only Outfitter allocations but landowner licences, resident opportunities, draw wait times and licence eligibility for non-residents. While the allocation policy was being developed, the outfitter allocations were held constant to provide business security to the outfitted industry which requires selling hunts well in advance of the hunting season, usually at least a year or two before.

As the AGPAC was working to provide recommendations on the final draft of the principles that would define the Provincial Allocation Policy, Covid and resulting border closure and a department re-organization in 2019/20 led to a suspension of efforts to complete the policy. This has led to the decision being made to continue to use the current outfitter allocations until the Allocation Policy can be completed. As well, during this time, a number of concessions were put in place to support the provincial outfitted industry that was being impacted by border closures and non-essential travel restrictions.

Work on finalization of a provincial Allocation Policy, including public engagement, will resume. Upon completion, Environment and Parks will implement the applicable aspects of the policy to complete the review and establish a new 5-year term for outfitter allocations. These will not be in place for the 2022 hunting season based on the business needs of the outfitted hunting industry to have certainty of allocation numbers for marketing and selling of outfitted hunts that occurs during the winter.


The department does acknowledge that there are WMUs where outfitter allocations do exceed 10% and is aware of the impacts this has on resident hunting opportunity. This topic has been discussed previously by the Alberta Game Policy Advisory Committee (AGPAC) and there was awareness and support for the development of a provincial allocation policy prior to completing the latest 5-year review of outfitter allocations. Unfortunately the policy has not been completed, as was previously communicated to you.

Your questions/concerns regarding Species Management Areas (SMAs) versus Wildlife Management Units (WMUs) being used when determining outfitter allocations is one of the main items that would be finalized and clearly outlined within a provincial allocation policy. Under the current policy to determine outfitter allocations, SMAs are used and this does not provide the ‘correction’ that you and other resident hunters are looking for.

As communicated previously, work on finalization of a provincial Allocation Policy, including public engagement, will resume. Upon completion, Environment and Parks will implement the applicable aspects of the policy to complete the review and establish a new 5-year term for outfitter allocations. Once completed, the allocation summaries for the following hunting season will reflect the new outfitter allocations and will be publically available on My Wild Alberta at: Hunting Allocations


Couple more questions/answers:

-Has AEP decided then that SMA’s will not be used for finalizing the next 5 year Outfitter Allocations and will follow WMU’s instead?
No, there has been no decision. The current process is to use SMA’s. In previous discussion on a draft allocation policy, this was a topic that was discussed, but no consensus amongst stakeholder groups. It is a topic that still needs to be finalized.

-how and who will be involved in the public engagement process you mentioned below?
Similar to recent public engagement on the provincial Turkey management plan, it would likely be posted publically for a set amount of time (i.e., 30 days), with some specific questions and opportunity for public feedback. Any public engagement would be initiated following notification to the public using different vehicles such as social media announcements and e-mail to WIN card holders.


Hopefully this clarifies some info on these allocations and how much of an overhaul this outfitter allocations process needs to level the playing field for Alberta residents.
This 5 year review just turned into a 10 year review with no changes being done until after the 2022 hunting seasons at the earliest. Residents are paying the price with less tags and increased wait times.
As you see above, there is no guarantee that using the Species Management Areas(SMA's) for determining the number outfitter allocations will be changed to WMU's in the next 5 year review. If this doesn't change, residents will be burned again with more outfitter allocations than resident ones in many WMU's like is currently happening.
Now is the time for residents to reach out to AEP, AFGA etc and make your concerns heard so that residents get more fair hunting opportunities after the next 5 year review is completed.

My apologies for the long post.........

[SLH]

Anyone know who is the one that finalizes the five year plan?

Does someone have an AGPAC membership and contact list?

[SageValleyOutdoors]

Not much of a shock on their response… corporate need trumps wildlife and wild lands sustainability almost every time in this province.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Along with paid access? And land owners permits?

What are you even asking? Are you referring to paid access and land owner permits in the states? Or Alberta? If you're talking about Alberta, paid access is already illegal, just poorly enforced. And why would you bring up landowner permits? Has nothing to do with this discussion.

[goldscud]

It's the AB way, screw the environment for short term profit

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Sledhead71

Your fairly hung up on Landowner permits, it has been explained to you why these are in place.... What if all the private lands here in Alberta were removed from the table or access was paid ? These people who allow access receive nothing for being accommodating to mostly strangers.

Respect goes both ways, something I fear you are missing.

I have all the respect in the world for landowners. So, don’t fear my opinion.
I didn’t suggest taking landowner tags away, I just suggested changing them. And, since you know my posts so well, you would know that I have suggested doubling the amount of tags.
As for being hung up on landowner tags, I only replied about them because they were brought up by another poster. After all, this is a thread about outfitter tags.
Carry on.

[Demonical]

Originally Posted by goldscud

It's the AB way, screw the environment for short term profit

Can you explain that comment?

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by albertadave

What are you even asking? Are you referring to paid access and land owner permits in the states? Or Alberta? If you're talking about Alberta, paid access is already illegal, just poorly enforced. And why would you bring up landowner permits? Has nothing to do with this discussion.

Since outfitters don’t own allocations in most states
This is the trade off that gives them some longer term stability
They have paid access and landowner permits That they can sell to book hunts a year or two in advance

[NKP]

Originally Posted by whitetail Junkie

Rumour is The Canadian resident is getting the shaft this fall as Alberta is supposedly getting rid of hunter host draws for Canadian residents for certain big game draw species like antelope, mule deer ,etc.

On A side note if it was my choice a Saskatchewan resident wouldn’t get a big game tag in Alberta as we can’t even go there and hunt a whitetail doe without having a relative who lives there “IF” we get drawn...

My thing is reciprocity. Of course Alberta can't be setting policy strictly by what other jurisdictions do. But if there are serious walls in place against Albertans seeking hunting ops elsewhere, then residents of those places should be limited to what they can access here.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

Since outfitters don’t own allocations in most states
This is the trade off that gives them some longer term stability
They have paid access and landowner permits That they can sell to book hunts a year or two in advance

Easy answer. No more outfitting on private land. It’s been suggested here many times.

[Smoky buck]

Just curious does anyone know if any other provinces besides Alberta that allow non residents Canadians to apply for draws in the same draw pool as residents?

I know BC, sask, and I am pretty confident the Yukon doesn’t but have not looked at the others

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Just curious does anyone know if any other provinces besides Alberta that allow non residents Canadians to apply for draws in the same draw pool as residents?

I know BC, sask, and I am pretty confident the Yukon doesn’t but have not looked at the others

Yukon nwt 100% no