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01-06-2022, 09:26 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Water extraction
Folks,
At the danger of being IDed as a wild eye environmental nut who is anti oil, I ask…..
Should we be concerned that water is extracted from trout streams during their lowest flows?
Two pumps on Prairie Creek now!l Water extraction for fracing.
The pond @ Quallys Corner was filled when Clearwater was at the lowest flow.
Any one care?
Don
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01-06-2022, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Tidewater headed to court December 8/20 for dumping contaminated water into Prairie Creed trib. Case was stayed.
WTF
Anybody know why?
Don
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01-06-2022, 11:45 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Folks,
At the danger of being IDed as a wild eye environmental nut who is anti oil, I ask…..
Should we be concerned that water is extracted from trout streams during their lowest flows?
Two pumps on Prairie Creek now!l Water extraction for fracing.
The pond @ Quallys Corner was filled when Clearwater was at the lowest flow.
Any one care?
Don
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I was under the understanding that storage pond was built to be filled during spring high flows. Was it filled this spring, emptied, and filled again?
I'm very pro oil, but I don't agree with the water usage on these multi-stage fracs, particularly during low flow times.
Need to start looking at hydrocarbon fracs once again.
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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01-07-2022, 06:41 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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The pond at Quallys was filled once during the lowest flows on the year. The pond never been used.
Don
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01-07-2022, 06:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Folks,
At the danger of being IDed as a wild eye environmental nut who is anti oil, I ask…..
Should we be concerned that water is extracted from trout streams during their lowest flows?
Two pumps on Prairie Creek now!l Water extraction for fracing.
The pond @ Quallys Corner was filled when Clearwater was at the lowest flow.
Any one care?
Don
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Don;
Has anyone checked to see if they even have a withdrawal permit to take water from Prairie?
Chances are they don't...or are not abiding by any timing or volume restrictions...if they do...then whoever issued them the permit needs to be taken to task.
One additional problem is that AE doesn't monitor flows during the winter.
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01-07-2022, 06:30 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrodfisher
Don;
Has anyone checked to see if they even have a withdrawal permit to take water from Prairie?
Chances are they don't...or are not abiding by any timing or volume restrictions...if they do...then whoever issued them the permit needs to be taken to task.
One additional problem is that AE doesn't monitor flows during the winter.
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They will have a permit. Same as out of Bearberry creek every winter.
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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01-07-2022, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
They will have a permit. Same as out of Bearberry creek every winter.
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Yeah... they probably do...but I've seen tankers come drop a hose, fill up and then just take off....makes you wonder....
Seen it on Stauffer, Prairie, Clearwater and Red Deer over the years
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01-07-2022, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrodfisher
Yeah... they probably do...but I've seen tankers come drop a hose, fill up and then just take off....makes you wonder....
Seen it on Stauffer, Prairie, Clearwater and Red Deer over the years
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No doubt the odd water truck pops in and grabs the odd load of water for who knows what.
Any water coming out of prairie creek to fill minion tanks for a frac will be pumped down the ditch
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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01-07-2022, 07:08 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
The pond at Quallys was filled once during the lowest flows on the year. The pond never been used.
Don
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I did not realize the pond hasn't been utilized. Hard to believe with the millions spent on it. Guessing Repsol isn't doing any drilling up there. Surprised CNRL or Yangarra isn't trucking water out of there though
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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01-08-2022, 07:13 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,663
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Is there an online source that shows extraction from various streams?
__________________
Often I have been exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar scarred, sunburned, mosquito bitten,
but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.
My blog - casting on the waters
fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
Fishing Regulations
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01-08-2022, 10:10 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Lorne,
Contact the manager of the Red Deer Region and don't be surprised if they have no idea.
Don
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01-08-2022, 10:13 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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01-08-2022, 10:18 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 349
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Is there a copy of the permit posted where they are picking up the water? They do that up in the Yellowhead area.
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01-08-2022, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachman
Is there a copy of the permit posted where they are picking up the water? They do that up in the Yellowhead area.
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At the location?
That would be kinda obvious what they were doing.
Don
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01-08-2022, 05:16 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,663
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Stream levels with the drought were extremely low last year. Extracting water from any of them is a crime.
__________________
Often I have been exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar scarred, sunburned, mosquito bitten,
but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.
My blog - casting on the waters
fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
Fishing Regulations
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01-08-2022, 05:17 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Lorne,
Contact the manager of the Red Deer Region and don't be surprised if they have no idea.
Don
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You are right, what a s**t show
__________________
Often I have been exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar scarred, sunburned, mosquito bitten,
but never, with a fly rod in my hand have I been in a place that was less than beautiful.
My blog - casting on the waters
fishing regulations and facts on fish handling
Fishing Regulations
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01-13-2022, 04:17 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Took a drive today and found:
1) water extraction occurred from Prairie CreeK with the week or so to fill two large tanks located east of the bridge a mile or so.
2) a second tank filling event is occurring presently about 1 mile west at a second frac where the source water is the Ram River 40 km. NW. This operation required 10 pumps and two heater systems.
Several question:
1) the mostly heavily used spawning area on Prairie Is located about a 2 miles downstream
2) the stream is closed to angling to protect the spawners
3) why one extraction is treated so differently than another?
If you wish a copy of the letter, please send me a note with your email address.
Letters to Government to be sent today.
Don
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01-13-2022, 11:15 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 521
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Two years ago, I took pictures of a truck extracting water from the Prairie at the corner of North Fork Road and 752...sent the pics and a description of what I saw to AEP and never heard back.
__________________
God grant me the Focus to Visualize myself catching fish, the Faith to believe that I will, and the Wisdom to keep the freezer stocked with hamburgers and hot dogs
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01-13-2022, 11:26 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,556
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Burnt Stick lake never recovered last year after they were pumping water in the early to late spring i pulled the dock out in late October was the lowest it has been in the 30 years . i have owned the cabin for 30 years .
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01-13-2022, 12:45 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 984
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Don;
What's happening at the Ram crossing just west of Rocky?
There's been some trucks/equipment in the river bed just downstream of the bridge for the past few days.
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01-13-2022, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrodfisher
Don;
What's happening at the Ram crossing just west of Rocky?
There's been some trucks/equipment in the river bed just downstream of the bridge for the past few days.
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This is the source water for a frac done yesterday just south of the Strachan junction with #752. The water is pumped nearly 40 kilometres with about 7 booster pumps and two heaters.
Don
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01-13-2022, 06:38 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
This is the source water for a frac done yesterday just south of the Strachan junction with #752. The water is pumped nearly 40 kilometres with about 7 booster pumps and two heaters.
Don
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OK...THX
Wondering why they couldn't suck out of Cow lake instead????
Seems to be quite a bit closer and that would eliminate withdrawal from streams at low winter flows....
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01-13-2022, 06:53 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Actually the frac water source is at the Ram where the pumps are about 1/2 mile from the N. Sask. River.
The N. Sask. dam is operated as a peaking power dam meaning water flows go up and down.
The amount of water removed from the Ram would have a minuscule effect.
Removal of that amount of water from Cow Lake would dry up the outflow destroying what little trout habitat is left.
Don
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01-13-2022, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Blackfalds
Posts: 6,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrodfisher
OK...THX
Wondering why they couldn't suck out of Cow lake instead????
Seems to be quite a bit closer and that would eliminate withdrawal from streams at low winter flows....
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Cow lake likely doesn’t have the water flow that the creeks do.
Withdrawing from a creek at the proper rates will have to effect on the fish. Even a small creek like Prairie flows quite a bit more water than they are taking.
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Trudeau and Biden sit to pee
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01-13-2022, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Andersen
Actually the frac water source is at the Ram where the pumps are about 1/2 mile from the N. Sask. River.
The N. Sask. dam is operated as a peaking power dam meaning water flows go up and down.
The amount of water removed from the Ram would have a minuscule effect.
Removal of that amount of water from Cow Lake would dry up the outflow destroying what little trout habitat is left.
Don
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Yes...I know where the Ram withdrawal location is.
But...the water is actually coming from the ram...not the North Sask which is 1/2 mile down...so, N sask flows have little to do with this.
With regard to Cow....I mean take it from the lake...NOT Cow creek
I don't think you would drop the level of Cow lake by very much....
Unsure of the volumes they are sucking...but it would need to be a lot to drop Cow lake by even a few inches..
Anyway...just a thought and wondering....
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01-13-2022, 07:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple
Cow lake likely doesn’t have the water flow that the creeks do.
Withdrawing from a creek at the proper rates will have to effect on the fish. Even a small creek like Prairie flows quite a bit more water than they are taking.
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Cow Lake...not creek...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple
Withdrawing from a creek at the proper rates will have to effect on the fish. Even a small creek like Prairie flows quite a bit more water than they are taking.
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So....you are not worried about sucking out of Prairie???...esp at low winter flows?
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01-14-2022, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Blackfalds
Posts: 6,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyrodfisher
Cow Lake...not creek...
So....you are not worried about sucking out of Prairie???...esp at low winter flows?
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Right now Prairie Creek is flowing over 30m3/min. The water license is likely only 10% of that so 3m3/min
__________________
Trudeau and Biden sit to pee
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01-14-2022, 12:41 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple
Cow lake likely doesn’t have the water flow that the creeks do.
Withdrawing from a creek at the proper rates will have to effect on the fish. Even a small creek like Prairie flows quite a bit more water than they are taking.
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Have you ever looked at Prairie Creek in the winter. I fished it for many years till the east Slopes Hearings made it illegal. The flow is very low.
Don
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01-14-2022, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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[QUOTE=DiabeticKripple;4470728]Right now Prairie Creek is flowing over 30m3/min. The water license is likely only 10% of that so 3m3/min[
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01-14-2022, 12:54 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 1,794
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[QUOTE=Don Andersen;4470881]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple
Right now Prairie Creek is flowing over 30m3/min. The water license is likely only 10% of that so 3m3/min[
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Typically the flow rate indicator is frozen solid by winter meaning any reading is BS.
And if it does work, it shows 0.6m3/sec.
This measurement is downstream of several large springs, Matt’s Creek and Swan Creek plus various springs.
Where are you getting the bogus readings? AER?
Don
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