Fly Fishing 70’s and 80’s

[Clusterite]

Seen an interesting post under the fishing forum on fishing back in the day. I was too young to be on the river in the 70’s but I would love to hear some stories of how the Ram or Blackstone fished back then compared to now. Thanks in advance for any stories from back in the day.

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by Clusterite

Seen an interesting post under the fishing forum on fishing back in the day. I was too young to be on the river in the 70’s but I would love to hear some stories of how the Ram or Blackstone fished back then compared to now. Thanks in advance for any stories from back in the day.

By the early 70’s most of the cuts in the N. Ram were eaten. After I fished the Yellowstone in 1972 within the Park and saw what C&R could do, I asked the Park Management the hows and why’s of the program. The resulting 3” of reports was shared with the Regional Biologist. Further, I shepherded a resolution through F&G to the Provincial Conference where it was passed. The lobbying resulted in the Province changing the N. Ram from Nice and Easy Creek to the Trunk Rd. into a C&R section. After the regulation change happened a Creek Census gal, I was told, recorded 8 fish landed on the section that summer.
The south Ram provided the cutthroat restocking. There was a plentiful supply as the commercial operators had not yet arrived.
Never fished the Blackstone till Cuts were stocked.

Don

[Clusterite]

Very interesting, thanks for the reply Don.

[Drewski Canuck]

In th3 1970's and 80's Jasper and Banff National Parks were stocking alot of different lakes.

Patricia, Annette, etc, all were a fly fisherman's dream.

Now what is left is Maligne which still does not disappoint.

Drewski

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

In th3 1970's and 80's Jasper and Banff National Parks were stocking alot of different lakes.

Patricia, Annette, etc, all were a fly fisherman's dream.

Now what is left is Maligne which still does not disappoint.

Drewski

For many years, the Hatcheries in Waterton, Banff and Jasper supplied the province of Alberta the fish stocked. This resulted in the Browns, Rainbows, Cutthroats stocked everywhere. Without parks, the fishing for trout in Alberta would have been nearly non-existent.
And it looks like Parks is going to do its level best to return our mountains to trout less.

Don

[thumper]

The 'Upper Bow' above Lake Louise can still be a lot of fun. At one time, below Lake Louise and especially below Banff, the Bow was full of wild cutties, rainbows, bullies and even brown trout. The woefully undersized sewage treatment plants in L Louise and Banff released lots of sewage into the Bow, and with these nutrients the aquatic vegetation and insect life was on steroids = lots of fish! Since those sewage plants have been modernized and cleaned up, the Upper Bow has returned to its nutrient poor, glacial, freestone state. Still nice fishing in spots, but not what it was in the 70s & early 80s.

[Lornce]

I really wonder if thinning out trout species like Brookies. Browns and Rainbows is the right decision. We could end up with just Bull trout with no diversity.

What with weather changes and water temperatures getting warmer it seems more logical to have species that can adapt to the reality of what the climate is. It is all very well for parks to live the dream of what was but I believe they lose sight of what is.

[Don Andersen]

Lorne,
I intend to fish the Red Deer below the dam for Bulls……… They used to be there!

Don

[thumper]

Originally Posted by Lornce

I really wonder if thinning out trout species like Brookies. Browns and Rainbows is the right decision. We could end up with just Bull trout with no diversity.

What with weather changes and water temperatures getting warmer it seems more logical to have species that can adapt to the reality of what the climate is. It is all very well for parks to live the dream of what was but I believe they lose sight of what is.

I'm surprised that they still allow us to fish at all in our National Parks ! You're not permitted to pick berries or mushrooms, feed birds or chipmunks, or even approach animals, - yet you're still allowed to harass, and even kill & keep fish!

[tallieho]

My early years on the Bow.Were great runs all to oneselve.Walk down the hills,to fish above Legasy island.Back then ,you still had the awesome insect hatches.The **** plants,were pumping it out[phosfates] were createing weed growth,for the bugs.Now weeds gone ,fish oppurtunities are rare..When shuttle service had 45 take outs on a wednesday That was my last..

[Lornce]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Lorne,
I intend to fish the Red Deer below the dam for Bulls……… They used to be there!

Don

Might join you, would be a panic on Bamboo if they are still there.

[ÜberFly]

Parks have already killed several lakes in the Lake Louise area of both Brookies and Yellowstones! The Plan is to kill all lakes of all introduced species. I doubt they will restock with WSCT as they will blow their budget on poison plus angling is not a visitor experience Parks is fond of nor wants to continue.

Sad really!!

Originally Posted by thumper

The 'Upper Bow' above Lake Louise can still be a lot of fun. At one time, below Lake Louise and especially below Banff, the Bow was full of wild cutties, rainbows, bullies and even brown trout. The woefully undersized sewage treatment plants in L Louise and Banff released lots of sewage into the Bow, and with these nutrients the aquatic vegetation and insect life was on steroids = lots of fish! Since those sewage plants have been modernized and cleaned up, the Upper Bow has returned to its nutrient poor, glacial, freestone state. Still nice fishing in spots, but not what it was in the 70s & early 80s.

[Lornce]

I started fly fishing in Alberta (after moving from BC) in the early '70s. Seldom would see anyone on our rivers or streams. Huge hatches that were so big that some days you had to keep your mouth shut or automatic lunch. Only one fly shop in town and very little interest in the hobby. In those days we would catch the odd Brook trout and Cuttie in the Bow on a regular basis. The dry fly fishing was often stellar with big Drakes and other Stonefly species that are now seldom seen.

Read a report the other day in Scientific American that first evidence that soft-membraned fish eggs, eaten and pooped out by birds, can still hatch into viable young. So it may not be so much bucket brigades as Quackers. Wonder if this will make the "cleansing" of lakes a questionable step.

[thumper]

Originally Posted by Lornce

Read a report the other day in Scientific American that first evidence that soft-membraned fish eggs, eaten and pooped out by birds, can still hatch into viable young. So it may not be so much bucket brigades as Quackers. Wonder if this will make the "cleansing" of lakes a questionable step.

If it's the same report I read, it relates specifically to Prussian carp eggs, and Mallard ducks. Viable eggs can go right through them ! No shortage of either carp or mallards in Southern Alberta. People were quick to blame 'bucket brigade' anglers for polluting waters with invasives, but now it seems, that might not be the case. We now know that it's very common for scuds to hitch-hike between waterbodies on the underbodies of waterfowl, and conceivably, crawfish could do the same.

[thumper]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Parks have already killed several lakes in the Lake Louise area of both Brookies and Yellowstones! The Plan is to kill all lakes of all introduced species. I doubt they will restock with WSCT as they will blow their budget on poison plus angling is not a visitor experience Parks is fond of nor wants to continue.

Sad really!!

Many lakes in the National Parks did not have any fish in them, before being stocked by National Park staff. Some of those lakes currently being poisoned are going to be left fishless (not restocked with pure native strains), in order to be 'pure' (before any alteration by us)

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by thumper

I'm surprised that they still allow us to fish at all in our National Parks ! You're not permitted to pick berries or mushrooms, feed birds or chipmunks, or even approach animals, - yet you're still allowed to harass, and even kill & keep fish!

You are allowed to keep non native species in National parks, that makes sense.

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by Lornce

I started fly fishing in Alberta (after moving from BC) in the early '70s. Seldom would see anyone on our rivers or streams. Huge hatches that were so big that some days you had to keep your mouth shut or automatic lunch. Only one fly shop in town and very little interest in the hobby. In those days we would catch the odd Brook trout and Cuttie in the Bow on a regular basis. The dry fly fishing was often stellar with big Drakes and other Stonefly species that are now seldom seen.

Read a report the other day in Scientific American that first evidence that soft-membraned fish eggs, eaten and pooped out by birds, can still hatch into viable young. So it may not be so much bucket brigades as Quackers. Wonder if this will make the "cleansing" of lakes a questionable step.

Lorne,
Where these reports fall on their face is timing. If fish eggs were so easily “bird ****”, one has to wonder why they only came by this trait in the past 40 years. What happened in the past 5,000 years?

Don

[thumper]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

You are allowed to keep non native species in National parks, that makes sense.

Not true. From the 20/21 Mountain Parks Fishing Regulations: "Possession limits for Banff, Yoho and Kootenay National Parks reduced to zero, except for Lake Minnewanka lake trout"

So in Banff, Yoho & Kootenay, you are permitted to keep only Lake Trout from Minnewanka - which is a native species! All Bow River fish, including non-native Brown, Brook, Lake and Rainbow trout, are 0 possession.

It doesn't make sense.

In Jasper National Park, you can keep all species, except both whitefish from Lac Beauvert. Waterton Lakes N.P. has some further restrictions.

[59whiskers]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

You are allowed to keep non native species in National parks, that makes sense.

Sorry I should clarify that the only fish that you can keep are non native species with specified limits.

[ÜberFly]

Where are you finding your info?

Thumper is correct... Zero possession of all species in BNP, KNP, YNP (with the exception noted of Lake Minnewanka).

My wife and I were involved in an Brook Trout eradication study within the Corral Creek Drainage & Hidden Lake a number of years ago. We had special permission to keep or donate to the raptor recovery centre. All fish caught whether 2" or 12" had to be killed. They also had gill nets set up in Hidden. They poisoned Hidden and the creek the following year. Helen was poisoned 2 years ago (after 2 years of Gill nets) and Katherine & Isabella Lakes this past summer. Not sure what the plan is for the rest, but I'm sure that info is online somewhere...

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

Sorry I should clarify that the only fish that you can keep are non native species with specified limits.

[goldscud]

The idea of bird distribution of fish eggs is SO WEAK.
How could there be thousands of lakes that are barren of fish after thousands of years with birds flying around. Yet, wherever people have access with their fishing rods, we see fish showing up (especially perch, and now Prussian carp).

Intentional release of Prussian carp into an irrigation ditch starts it all, and then they distribute by water flow. After that the carp got moved by car.
Funny how those "birds" knew to fly by all the other water bodies to get to Blood Indian

[thumper]

Originally Posted by goldscud

The idea of bird distribution of fish eggs is SO WEAK.
How could there be thousands of lakes that are barren of fish after thousands of years with birds flying around. Yet, wherever people have access with their fishing rods, we see fish showing up (especially perch, and now Prussian carp).

Intentional release of Prussian carp into an irrigation ditch starts it all, and then they distribute by water flow. After that the carp got moved by car.
Funny how those "birds" knew to fly by all the other water bodies to get to Blood Indian

The study was limited to Prussian carp eggs - a fairly recent invasive species. And now they're showing up in tiny storm retention ponds and other little sloughs that are not attached to streams or rivers and where it's very unlikely an angler would bother 'bucket brigading'.

[goldscud]

I have seen folks fishing in storm retention ponds....somehow they know there is fish there now

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by thumper

Not true. From the 20/21 Mountain Parks Fishing Regulations: "Possession limits for Banff, Yoho and Kootenay National Parks reduced to zero, except for Lake Minnewanka lake trout"

So in Banff, Yoho & Kootenay, you are permitted to keep only Lake Trout from Minnewanka - which is a native species! All Bow River fish, including non-native Brown, Brook, Lake and Rainbow trout, are 0 possession.

It doesn't make sense.

In Jasper National Park, you can keep all species, except both whitefish from Lac Beauvert. Waterton Lakes N.P. has some further restrictions.

Didn't know that because I fish Jasper. I was thinking "wtf are these guys talking about..."
That really is ludicrous to have zero limit on past stocked trout....WTF?

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Didn't know that because I fish Jasper. I was thinking "wtf are these guys talking about..."
That really is ludicrous to have zero limit on past stocked trout....WTF?

"Apparently" done to reduce the spread of Whirling disease.

The whole Parks "back to nature" approach is a gong show.
Do you think they will tear down Chateau Lake Louise?...Banff springs?...How about those nice golf courses?
Reduce Brewster's ( or whatever they are called now) impact at Maligne? Ice Fields? etc
How about replacing some of those hwy and railways culverts to allow natural fish passage?

I do think they are working towards a total (in their mind) non consumptive approach...ie...eventually fishing will not be allowed.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Lornce

I started fly fishing in Alberta (after moving from BC) in the early '70s. Seldom would see anyone on our rivers or streams. Huge hatches that were so big that some days you had to keep your mouth shut or automatic lunch. Only one fly shop in town and very little interest in the hobby. In those days we would catch the odd Brook trout and Cuttie in the Bow on a regular basis. The dry fly fishing was often stellar with big Drakes and other Stonefly species that are now seldom seen.

Read a report the other day in Scientific American that first evidence that soft-membraned fish eggs, eaten and pooped out by birds, can still hatch into viable young. So it may not be so much bucket brigades as Quackers. Wonder if this will make the "cleansing" of lakes a questionable step.

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Lorne,
Where these reports fall on their face is timing. If fish eggs were so easily “bird ****”, one has to wonder why they only came by this trait in the past 40 years. What happened in the past 5,000 years?

Don

Originally Posted by goldscud

The idea of bird distribution of fish eggs is SO WEAK.
How could there be thousands of lakes that are barren of fish after thousands of years with birds flying around. Yet, wherever people have access with their fishing rods, we see fish showing up (especially perch, and now Prussian carp).

Intentional release of Prussian carp into an irrigation ditch starts it all, and then they distribute by water flow. After that the carp got moved by car.
Funny how those "birds" knew to fly by all the other water bodies to get to Blood Indian

Exactly. If birds could move eggs around they would be everywhere.

In areas without access or limited access when we did fisheries work along the Athabasca, we would find many lakes without perch that could support them and very near lakes with perch. So 13000 years of birds and perch didn’t spread everywhere. People come and they move everywhere.

Perch eggs are also nasty. Can’t find anything that targets them. They have a nasty tasting gelatinous coating that sticks to the weeds. Read this. https://thefisheriesblog.com/2017/02...ch-egg-skeins/


The study mentioned about birds eating eggs and viable where force fed carp eggs… and that’s not something that happens.

If you force feed people… you don’t digest well either.

Nope… it’s people. I know who did it to Midnapore and Sundance. It was two teen boys coming from their summer at their lake property. A bucket for each lake.

The prussians moved after the guys farm pond overflowed in the floods. They can move up a trickle of water. People also move them around cause they culturally like them, feel it’s good luck, are vandals or just plain don’t know the damage they have done.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by goldscud

I have seen folks fishing in storm retention ponds....somehow they know there is fish there now

We are so far off topic, so I shall contribute to the fire.

I fish storm retention ponds. I was walking in a park with my wife 15 years ago when I saw a fish rise. Talked to the government bio for the area, he told me the fish are originally from the Bow.... it only takes 2

I won't talk more about it on a public forum.

[501s]

Originally Posted by ÜberFly

Where are you finding your info?

My wife and I were involved in an Brook Trout eradication study within the Corral Creek Drainage & Hidden Lake a number of years ago. We had special permission to keep or donate to the raptor recovery centre. All fish caught whether 2" or 12" had to be killed. They also had gill nets set up in Hidden. They poisoned Hidden and the creek the following year. Helen was poisoned 2 years ago (after 2 years of Gill nets) and Katherine & Isabella Lakes this past summer. Not sure what the plan is for the rest, but I'm sure that info is online somewhere...

This is so interesting! That must have been fun to be a part of. We have fished a bunch of the lakes north of 11 (Michelle, Landslide, Lake of the falls) and have been planning to go to hidden and have been looking at Katherine, Porcupine, Isabella lakes. Have you ever fish the lakes in this area? I'd love to know more about them and if they are worthy of a hike in. PM me if its info you don't mind sharing. Thanks!

[ÜberFly]

As stated earlier, Katherine, etc. all have been killed as of last summer!

Originally Posted by 501s

This is so interesting! That must have been fun to be a part of. We have fished a bunch of the lakes north of 11 (Michelle, Landslide, Lake of the falls) and have been planning to go to hidden and have been looking at Katherine, Porcupine, Isabella lakes. Have you ever fish the lakes in this area? I'd love to know more about them and if they are worthy of a hike in. PM me if its info you don't mind sharing. Thanks!

[501s]

I'm sorry when you wrote Coral Creek and Hidden Lake I thought you were referring to the lake neat Landslide, not the one near Lake Louise, my apologies.

It looks like Katherine and Helen lakes will be many years before they are worth trying to fish.