Water extraction

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Right now Prairie Creek is flowing over 30m3/min. The water license is likely only 10% of that so 3m3/min

Not sure where you are getting your flow rates from...the AE stations are down once freeze up sets in.

The AE station on Prairie is just south of the Everdell hall.
Even IF your flow rate is accurate...it is only 10% of typical summer flows....

Your flow rate is 0.5 M3/sec
Historical average summer flows are 5.0+M3/sec
Flows last summer were incredibly low....less than 2m3/sec

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

Not sure where you are getting your flow rates from...the AE stations are down once freeze up sets in.

The AE station on Prairie is just south of the Everdell hall.
Even IF your flow rate is accurate...it is only 10% of typical summer flows....

Your flow rate is 0.5 M3/sec
Historical average summer flows are 5.0+M3/sec
Flows last summer were incredibly low....less than 2m3/sec

https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/google_...ce&province=AB

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/google_...ce&province=AB

From your link;

"The most recent water level (primary sensor) recorded is 1.051 metres at 2022-01-14 17:10:00 LST.

The latest water level measurement obtained was 1.182 metres at 2021-11-02
09:50:00.
The latest discharge measurement conducted at 2021-11-02 10:54:30 was 0.593 cubic metres per second with a mean water level of 1.183 metres.

This discharge deviates by -51.72% from rating curve 11 which is the active rating curve (unshifted) for the station.

Provisional discharges are computed based on the active rating curve with temporary shifts where applicable. If the deviation from the curve is more than 5%, the discharge time series may be inaccurate and will be revised for final publication following detailed review of water level and discharge records."

Furthermore the site states that the numbers are "provisional"..and that the operational period of this station is from March to October.
Also the tabular data has annotation "B" which indicates ice..and that stream flow values are "estimated".

That said even if we take the readings as fact....we are now down to 0.35M3/sec

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Right now Prairie Creek is flowing over 30m3/min. The water license is likely only 10% of that so 3m3/min

haha, that would be pretty high water this time of year.

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

haha, that would be pretty high water this time of year.

NO!

30M3/min equals 0.5M3/sec...which is VERY low....

[Don Andersen]

So the question remains, why was Prairie Creek used for a frac water source when:

1) winter flows are so low
2) there is a fishing closure to protect the spawners in the fall
3) 2 kilometres west, an active frac was pumping water 40 km.
4) the major spawning area is about 2 kilometres downstream from the pump station.

Who makes these decisions? And why was it done?

Don

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by flyrodfisher

NO!

30M3/min equals 0.5M3/sec...which is VERY low....

Your right, didn't clue in on minutes as opposed to seconds.

[Don Andersen]

Can’t find a TDL for a frac source on Prairie Creek.

Interesting!

Don

[Sundancefisher]

https://avw.alberta.ca/ApprovalViewer.aspx

Curious if the search link works.

Water extraction licenses for Prairie Creek by Rocky


https://avw.alberta.ca/ApprovalViewe...x?Click=Search

31 Result(s)
Document 00073737-00-00 ROCKY MTN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/MCNUTT PHYLLIS - F00073737 is held by Phyllis McNutt, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 31, 2001 and does not expire.
Document 00140606-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/LOIS & DALE CLEARWATER & TOM & LORENA TISDALE - F00140606 is held by Dale & Lois Clearwater, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Feb. 19, 2003 and does not expire.
Document 00142192-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/CHARLES & DAWN MILLER - F00142192 is held by Charles & Dawn Miller, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Jun. 12, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00148043-00-00 STRACHAN SPUR/EROSION/BP CANADA ENERGY COMPANY is held by Plains Midstream Canada ULC, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Approval is currently issued as of Jul. 24, 2001 and does not expire.
Document 00153027-00-00 ROCKY MTN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/HUDSON JULIA is held by Julia Hudson, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Aug. 17, 2001 and does not expire.
Document 00177492-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/GARDENER ALBERTA - F00177492 is held by Alberta Gardener, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Mar. 14, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00177499-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/JOHN & DONNA MORGAN - F00177499 is held by John & Donna Morgan, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Mar. 19, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00177601-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/GRAHAM KEITH - F00177601 is held by Keith Graham, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Apr. 08, 2003 and does not expire.
Document 00177616-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/LODGEPOLE RANCH - F00177616 is held by Lodgepole Ranch Ltd, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Mar. 22, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00178028-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/MICHAEL & DONNA HEAD - F00178028 is held by Michael & Joanna Head, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Mar. 13, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00178944-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/BURRINGTON BRIAN is held by Brian Burrington, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Apr. 29, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00179018-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/WAYNE & MAY DAHL is held by Wayne & May Dahl, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Apr. 29, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00179681-00-00 STRACHEN SPUR/REGISTRATION/HAUPT, CARL is held by Carl Haupt, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Feb. 10, 2005 and does not expire.
Document 00179682-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/HAUPT DARREN - F00179682 is held by Darren Haupt, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 01, 2002 and does not expire.
Notice 00184301-00-00 under the provisions of the Water Act, Code of Practice for Watercourse Crossings at SW 16-36-7-W5 * affecting the Alford Creek was received from CLEARWATER COUNTY on Jun. 29, 2001.
* Additional locations and water bodies, including the queried location, are associated with this notice.
Notice 00184323-00-00 under the provisions of the Water Act, Code of Practice for Watercourse Crossings at NW 24-37-6-W5 * affecting the Clear Creek was received from ALBERTA SUSTAINABLE RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT, PARKLAND REGION on Jul. 10, 2001.
* Additional locations and water bodies, including the queried location, are associated with this notice.
Document 00185654-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/PROCESSING/AAGE F. TOTTRUP - F26996 is held by Pure Canadian Water Corporation, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Licence is currently issued as of May. 23, 2002 and does not expire.
Document 00185654-00-01 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/PROCESSING/PURE CANADIAN WATER CORPORATION - F26996 is held by Pure Canadian Water Corporation, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Licence is currently issued as of May. 17, 2005 and does not expire.
Document 00185654-00-02 ROCKY MTN HOUSE/WATER BOTTLING/PURE CANADIAN WATER COPRORATION - F26996 is held by Pure Canadian Water Corporation, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Licence is currently issued as of Apr. 08, 2011 and does not expire.
Document 00194062-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/DALE & LOIS CLEARWATER - F00140606 is held by Dale & Lois Clearwater, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Feb. 19, 2003 and does not expire.
Document 00194063-00-00 ROCKY MOUNTAIN HOUSE/REGISTRATION/LOIS & DALE CLEARWATER - F00140606 is held by Clearwater & Tisdale, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of Feb. 19, 2003 and does not expire.
Document 00259095-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 16629 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00259131-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 36513 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00259183-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 38176 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00259184-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 38177 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00260643-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 36177 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00260653-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 38185 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00260662-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/GRL 40213 is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00262435-00-00 CROWN LAND/REGISTRATION/ASRD/PRAIRIE CREEK ALLOTMENT is held by Public Land Management, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Registration is currently issued as of May. 29, 2009 and does not expire.
Document 00374992-00-00 ROCKY MTN HOUSE/DIVERSION OF WATER/490363 ALBERTA LTD. - F00372891 is held by 490363 Alberta Ltd., under the provisions of the Water Act. This Licence is currently issued as of Aug. 13, 2018 and expires on Aug. 12, 2043.
Document 00383329-00-00 CONGRESBURY/HABITAT ENHANCEMENT/KENNETH SHORT - F00383329 is held by Kenneth Short, under the provisions of the Water Act. This Approval is currently issued as of Aug. 03, 2016 and expires on Aug. 03, 2036.

[flyrodfisher]

Interesting...nothing on Prairie withdrawal for fracing.

The Ram withdrawal for the TAQA frac is listed...by searching on the Ram


Doesn't look like they have a permit for Prairie.

[Don Andersen]

Sundance’s search shows most water licences were for domestic or cattle operation.
No industrial usage.

Don

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Sundance’s search shows most water licences were for domestic or cattle operation.
No industrial usage.

Don

Not sure there is another source listing somewhere, however it doesn’t seem to show oil and gas stuff.

That doesn’t mean someone isn’t illegally doing something wrong either intentionally or unknowingly.

If someone sees activity insofar as water extraction is concerned, video tape it, record any defining names, licence numbers, etc. And report to the AER.

https://www.aer.ca/providing-informa...aer/contact-us

Feel free to CC a media person for added umph.

Looks like there is a commercial water extraction business. Bottled water? Not sure how much water they are using but likely involves large water trucks.

I believe they have to have their water license displayed on the vehicle. If not and they won’t show it… that would be very suspicious.

[Donkey Oatey]

If you want to search TDL's for oil & gas you need to use the website

https://waters.gov.ab.ca/WatersAdmin.aspx

Put in a land location and it will look for all TDL's for both AEP and AER.

[Don Andersen]

Thanx Oatey,
Their server is down. I’ll check later.
I have a copy of the permit provided by AER. c/w email.
Still pondering what the response should be.

The guy I wouldn’t want to be is the guy who organized 40 kilometres of pumping when management finds out someone was given a extraction permit within 2 kil.

Don

[flyrodfisher]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Sundance’s search shows most water licences were for domestic or cattle operation.
No industrial usage.

Don

Don,
The Ram frac withdrawal did show up on Sundances link....if you searched on the Ram.
But I found nothing for frac on Prairie on that link
Other link is still dead...

[Don Andersen]

Got a copy of the permit. Extraction happened between Xmas and New years.
Permit flows 0.125 m/s.
Best guess based on flow rates @Everdell is they took 25% of the flow. Wether or not this destroyed the downstream spawning areas is unknown.

Don

[Don Andersen]

Here is a link to the research gathered on the Prairie Creek Water Diversion.

If you wish to write a letter or two, please copy your MLA.

Thanks,

Don

http://bamboorods.ca/Prairie%2520Cre...-%2520web.html

[ecsuplander]

or if you really want to get your way, set up a border blockade, that seems to work.

[45-70GOV]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Here is a link to the research gathered on the Prairie Creek Water Diversion.

If you wish to write a letter or two, please copy your MLA.

Thanks,

Don

http://bamboorods.ca/Prairie%2520Cre...-%2520web.html

Done

[Don Andersen]

A friend saw what he assumed is the Frac Water retention tanks getting melted.
Near 2 months since they were filled.
To this point, multiple letters to various Govt people, agencies and the Energy Regulator have not resulted in any replies.

Don