Looking For Gun Dog Advice / Opinions

[Badlildoggy]

Hi there, I am calling out to the Gun Dog experts out there to help me select the best all-purpose gun dog. To be more specific, I would be generally upland bird hunting with possibly a very occasional waterfowl hunt, therefore dogs of the Pointer variety seem more suited to my purpose. I have had Labs and Chesapeake as a kid so I am somewhat familiar with the training process on Retriever breeds. I am partial to the Pudelpointer and German Wirehair as well as Weimaraner however I have had no direct experience with these breeds, my opinion is based solely from research. I hope not to offend any other breed lovers out there but I am really interested in selecting from among these 3 breeds. I do many outdoor activities in Winter therefore hardiness is important so I realize that this may restrict the Weim's versatility (but they are so darn nice). I have been in touch with a few very proud breeders and they have asked that I do as much research as possible before I select a dog to ensure that I am selecting the right dog for me. I highly respect the devoted doctrines of the breeders of these dogs so that is why I am reaching out to those who have had more experience than I.


Thanks for any and all opinions and any direction toward breeders would be appreciated.

[catnthehat]

I wouldn't want a GSP or a weim or any of the short haired pointers after hunting over my son's GSP for the last 5 years.
They just cannot handle the cold weather like a lab or a wire hair.
The GWP is not even in my scope as far as that goes, a griffon or a Drathaar would ;likely be the one.
However, if I had my druthers( and i do, but I won't be getting one soon) it would be a pointing lab.
I trained a lab to point when I was 15 and would train another in a second, great retrievers, great cold water/weather dogs, and even if they don't point you can train them to work close !
Cat

[elkhunter11]

After hunting over two GWPs, for the past few years, and after doing a great deal of research, I am reserving a Drathtaar pup for my own hunting dog. I found a breeder in Manitoba with a great reputation, and after talking with him, I will be getting my pup from him.

[coolpete1]

i have a gsp and a gwp , they are not formally trained but the gwp shows way more hunting potential. as far as temperment the gsp is calmer and the gwp is crazy . they are both great dogs.

[bigbfidaddy]

I love labs. Not as hyper as the spaniel or gsp and we have kids so the family dog nature in the lab is hard to beat. The drive to please is undeniable and a good blood line makes training so easy there is very little frustration factor.

[butcherboy]

After having 2 labs, I'm questioning having another. Great dog with kids, great tempermeant, can take the cold weather and not very hyper. Very easy to train as well. However the knee surgeries is very frustrating. Both labs we have had needed both knees done. Not sure what to think. Anyone else with labs have same problem with their knees??? How about other breeds (GSP, Weims) have knee problems? I understand that most dogs are very active and knee problems might be part of owning a dog but just looking for feedback or advice? Thanks

[Jadham]

I have labs. No problems with knees, though one had hip dysplasia and I got a full refund from the breeder (he wasn't a hunting dog anyway but family pet).

My hunting lab is very active, I hike and scramble peaks with him in the summer, skijor in winter, and hunt both upland and waterfowl with him in the fall. Despite this, he easily turns "off" at home, and is often left at home all day without issues.

Labs are popular for a reason, they are good all round dogs for home, park, and the hunt.

[densa44]

I'm not going to try to talk you into a Pudelpointer for 2 reasons, there are only 300 pups per year in North America and they are expensive. If you train the dog you'll get your money's worth if you don't a rescue dog will suit just as well.

If you can make it to the Stettler Pheasant festival you can have a look at mine, we have 2 females both have a UT 1 score and the pup we bred has a perfect NA score of 112 (so does her mother) and a a perfect UT score of 204. We hunt every day from Sept 1 until the pheasants close in December.

Shoot me a PM and I'll see if we can give you a free demo.

[Cowtown guy]

Originally Posted by butcherboy

After having 2 labs, I'm questioning having another. Great dog with kids, great tempermeant, can take the cold weather and not very hyper. Very easy to train as well. However the knee surgeries is very frustrating. Both labs we have had needed both knees done. Not sure what to think. Anyone else with labs have same problem with their knees??? How about other breeds (GSP, Weims) have knee problems? I understand that most dogs are very active and knee problems might be part of owning a dog but just looking for feedback or advice? Thanks

I have had 4 labs. One had a knee issue that she developed after stepping in a badger hole in cover at a fairly high rate of speed while making a retrieve on a pheasant. The others have been fine. We just put one down in April that was 14.

I like the breed for its willingness to please. There is nothing more important to my dogs than pleasing me. That in itself is something to think on.

I have had a GSP and he was no good in the cold. No matter what I did or tried with him he would not go deeper than his chest in the water either. I know some do fine in water but mine was a very solid and very stubborn no way Jose when it came to water.

[Winch101]

I know I have a Griffon but if I was to get a dog to kill birds here
All season long ,then Lab for sure . Low field maintainance , close working
Great temperament . Best all round all season .

Down side , they stink according to my wife .When I was looking for a
Dog I was having trouble in Alberta finding a breeder with hunting lines,
Lifetime guarantee , whose references were really good . I have two buddies
Who have had dogs from Winntoba kennels in Manitoba that have been clear .

And I like those taller ,narrow head skinny labs . But you can get tricked
I bought a female whose dame and sire looked just like that ......when
She topped off at 125 lbs built like a tank ....great bird dog ....I took
Her back to the breeder .....he showed me pics of the dames sire ,a monster. And mine was a clone ....you never know

[aulrich]

Since you are talking primarily upland vs waterfowl the v-dogs I would say have an advantage but going lab would be like buying a 30-06 for a hunting rifle(hard to call wrong). Even if you cut out the short hair breeds(I think there would be some GSP owners that would contest the cold thing), that leaves you a few options any of the following breeds will work.

German wire hair/DD
Pointintg Griff
Pudelpointer
Large Munsterlander (mine )
Small Munsterlander
German Longhair Pointer
Brittany

Flushers
Lab
Springers

Breeding is huge you want a “by hunters for hunters” sort of standard, breeders that test and/or encourage to test NAVHDA or the German system should be your first string of breeders. You can’t train nose, prey drive or search you can develop what is there but if it is not your hooped and that is where proper planned breeding is fundamental to success.

Training is different vs labs, at least hunting not pet and regular OB (short of whoa replacing sit as the default command) , the real formal training typically happens after 12 months old or so and the first hunting season. It also takes more birds personally I have a pigeon loft and have had a pen of ducks all summer, probably could have used a pen of chucker too .

Exercising the v-dogs will be a bit different too, for a lab could throw marks for an hour and they would be good, the best for my LM is and hour of searching for birds, so expect to be more active exercising the dog. But I would say any properly bred working dog will need both mental and physical stimulation, to maintain the off switch.

If you do go V-dog do come down and check out Wildrose NAVHDA we are done for this year, but it’s a good place for a rookie to learn the ropes ( sure helped me.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by butcherboy

After having 2 labs, I'm questioning having another. Great dog with kids, great tempermeant, can take the cold weather and not very hyper. Very easy to train as well. However the knee surgeries is very frustrating. Both labs we have had needed both knees done. Not sure what to think. Anyone else with labs have same problem with their knees??? How about other breeds (GSP, Weims) have knee problems? I understand that most dogs are very active and knee problems might be part of owning a dog but just looking for feedback or advice? Thanks

Joint problems generally arise from poor blood lines, diet and over aggressive owners.

Proven dogs are expensive and most often require a wait time and/or shipping from another Provence or the states. Most folks are not willing to do the research and wait for a good pup to become available because the internet is filled with breeders offering the "wonder dogs" at discounted pricing.

Labs can and will eat anything. This often leads the owners to feed low quality foods, over feed and fail to supplement for healthy joints. An over weight dog (like people) is more likely to develop joint problems and 90% of the Labs I see are over weight. Junk foods do not have the nutritional value to grow a healthy frame.

Labradors grow quickly on the outside but do not have the bone structure to support strenuous work at a young age. I see many threads on here with people working Labs hard at 6 months to 1 year old. Jumping in and out of pick ups is also common and destroys a puppy's joints. We are all excited to see what a new pup can do but they are not physically ready even if they are ready to go mentally. They can be clumsy as puppies and their willingness to please is their worst enemy as over exertion is inevitable.

Last year my pup was 80 pounds at 1 year old, September 1st. I was eager to get him involved but held him back limiting his workouts and healing him often in the bush. This year he has put on 10 pounds of muscle in the shoulders and hips but has slimmed down through the belly. He is obviously more athletically built and much more coordinated. I have been working him hard for the last month and feel he is now ready to go. He understands his limitations and has the added muscle needed to carry him.

I am sorry to hear of your health problems and frustration with the breed, but most likely one or all of the above factors lead to your problems. As mentioned above, sometimes you do everything right and health problems arise. All a person can do with any breed is educate ourselves and hope for the best.

[Badlildoggy]

Thanks a million for all the input fellas, for me the price isn't an issue, I will pay what it cost's to get the right dog, as mentioned above, by hunters for hunters. I would prefer to get a pup sooner than later due to the loss of our family house dog. I think I have eliminated the Weim, I just love them but I am convinced they would be high maintenance in our climate. I have read very mixed reviews on the GSP from lovers and haters and I am not convinced they are the dog for me. I could be tainted due to my previous experience with Labs, not that they were bad dogs I guess I was hoping for a dog with the potential to be better. In short I am still pretty undecided. Still leaning strongly to a Pudelpointer or GWP.

[aulrich]

If you like a GWP keep the DD on the list to. On paper every DD is from a hunting line and it's arguably (and the argument happens a lot ) the same dog as a GWP.

Hey there are long haired wiems, just to muddy the waters



http://pointingdogblog.blogspot.ca/2...er-part-3.html

[M.C. Gusto]

All the dogs youve mentioned are pretty much the same (i have owned them all except weim) personality wise and ability. Like mentioned above, buying from a good kennel IS the most improtant thing. If you will be duck hunting in the cold i would definetly lean towards the DD.

[Mark Huff]

you might enjoy Jim Harrison's essay on his hunting dogs....

http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/1005010606

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Joint problems generally arise from poor blood lines, diet and over aggressive owners.

Proven dogs are expensive and most often require a wait time and/or shipping from another Provence or the states. Most folks are not willing to do the research and wait for a good pup to become available because the internet is filled with breeders offering the "wonder dogs" at discounted pricing.

Labs can and will eat anything. This often leads the owners to feed low quality foods, over feed and fail to supplement for healthy joints. An over weight dog (like people) is more likely to develop joint problems and 90% of the Labs I see are over weight. Junk foods do not have the nutritional value to grow a healthy frame.

Labradors grow quickly on the outside but do not have the bone structure to support strenuous work at a young age. I see many threads on here with people working Labs hard at 6 months to 1 year old. Jumping in and out of pick ups is also common and destroys a puppy's joints. We are all excited to see what a new pup can do but they are not physically ready even if they are ready to go mentally. They can be clumsy as puppies and their willingness to please is their worst enemy as over exertion is inevitable.

Last year my pup was 80 pounds at 1 year old, September 1st. I was eager to get him involved but held him back limiting his workouts and healing him often in the bush. This year he has put on 10 pounds of muscle in the shoulders and hips but has slimmed down through the belly. He is obviously more athletically built and much more coordinated. I have been working him hard for the last month and feel he is now ready to go. He understands his limitations and has the added muscle needed to carry him.

I am sorry to hear of your health problems and frustration with the breed, but most likely one or all of the above factors lead to your problems. As mentioned above, sometimes you do everything right and health problems arise. All a person can do with any breed is educate ourselves and hope for the best.

Excellent post!!