Infamous Poacher Running for Directors Seat in APOS

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Thank you for the response. I have to say I am a little surprise on simplicity of the APOS election process if that is how it occurs. It sounds more like elections for a local minor hockey association as opposed to a governing body of an industry.

And here lies the issue with APOS ! They aren’t really a governing body although they are treated as such in some cases.

What they actually are is an administrator of the allocations required to outfit non residents in Alberta and an association for its members. Which unlike other jurisdictions are required to be members whether they want the “benefits” or not.

If a law is broken by a member they are charged by F&W at the direction of or on behalf of the crown. They go to court just like anybody else and there’s an outcome good or bad. Now if convicted you are contacted by APOS and a review takes place of your actions, and you’re accessed an additional fine or disciplinary action by the association.
This is where things get “grey” because people assume APOS should step in and take all the allocations from the offender like an angry master and the outfitter then goes bankrupt and hides his head in shame.
In reality it’s very hard for an association to do this, and other members likely don’t want to see huge expenditures going towards civil court cases. There’s also the issue with who decides exactly how steep the internal penalty is ? Does a technicality warrant loss of use ? Is there a 3 strike rule ? Does APOS support the crown even if the evidence is questionable regardless of the situation? Very slippery slope that one !!

What we’ve seen lately from the crown/judges are huge fines and suspensions. A $80,000 fine and 22 year ban on anything to do with hunting/outfittting hurts even the biggest outfitters out there, I promise you that.
In my opinion we should be depending on the judicial system to take care of these issues, not tasking APOS with it.

Next door we have GOABC who is a very powerful advocate for us, but they have nothing to do with administrating how the government handles the outfitting industry. And in my opinion that’s exactly how it should be !
If quotas need to be changed, they’re changed by the government. If you have an issue with it then you ask your association for help. If you’re convicted of an offence the government takes care of who can continue to operate or not, there’s no middle man. It’s way more cut and dry !

[abhunter8]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

What little integrity APOS had they have completely lost allowing scum of the Earth to even be a member never mind in an elected position.

I agree. I don't know how he is allowed to have anything to do with hunting in Alberta or anywhere for that matter. I can't believe some landowner hasn't taken him out already. lol

I have guided a few Americans who had hunted with him in the past and were offered to go shoot deer from a helicopter. These hunters had integrity and refused. I also had 2 run ins with him about 20 years ago. First was on property around Elk Point that he didn't have permission on but my friend and I had permission. He had organized a massive deer push/drive on this property without permission and my buddy and I were sitting watching one morning when 1,2,3 then about a dozen hunters come walking towards us from all directions. We approached to talk to and they all hurriedly headed to the road and jumped in 3 trucks and took off quickly. I recognized him and his truck from him running me off the road a week earlier in the Rannach grazing reserve. I moved from the area before the next season and didn't go back there to hunt, which is probably a good thing because I would not have been getting out of the way next time! lol

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Very intelligent response!

Thank you for contributing your wisdom to this thread 👍

No problem. I feel it’s my duty to inform.

[Joe Black]

So here is a question to those that know or have associated with Lloyd.

What is his motivation to be on the board?

His insatiable outfitter ego?

Or does he get a free ticket to the annual supper, or something like that?

Just curious. Can’t be that he will use his position for evil purposes,,,,,,

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

So here is a question to those that know or have associated with Lloyd.

What is his motivation to be on the board?

His insatiable outfitter ego?

Or does he get a free ticket to the annual supper, or something like that?

Just curious. Can’t be that he will use his position for evil purposes,,,,,,

The man the myth. He wants all to be well, and merely wants to be the king of central Ab north. His enemies are not currently named yet, but word on the street is there is a movement to overthrow him. I wouldnt get too worked up just yet, because its just now december and this is when his deer season starts. He should be wrapped up by christmas so maybe more info will be out by then about his ideas for the planned new kingdom

[cowmanbob]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

Just curious. Can’t be that he will use his position for evil purposes,,,,,,

APOS directors don't sit around and plan illegal activities.

[Joe Black]

Yah your probably right.

He’s just in it for the free supper ticket.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

Yah your probably right.

He’s just in it for the free supper ticket.

No, not true. Its much deeper than that. He wants a kingdom. And maybe a small portion of saskatchewan

[lannie]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

APOS directors don't sit around and plan illegal activities.

They have not had the credibility for a very long time for the citizens of Alberta to have the trust or faith to believe otherwise. Now McMahon is on the board it has further smeared the members of APOS who were "clean". APOS has spiralled down into a cesspool of corruption that needs to be dissolved.

[alpinebeers]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

No, not true. Its much deeper than that. He wants a kingdom. And maybe a small portion of saskatchewan

And you will be first in line to be his court jester i'm sure

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by lannie

They have not had the credibility for a very long time for the citizens of Alberta to have the trust or faith to believe otherwise. Now McMahon is on the board it has further smeared the members of APOS who were "clean". APOS has spiralled down into a cesspool of corruption that needs to be dissolved.

What did they actually do ? I’m interested to hear what lost the citizens faith in the organization?

Before this Lloyd thing I mean, since they lost their credibility a very long time ago.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

What did they actually do ? I’m interested to hear what lost the citizens faith in the organization?

Before this Lloyd thing I mean, since they lost their credibility a very long time ago.

Welllll....They put up with his $)*’ for 40 years for a starter

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by alpinebeers

And you will be first in line to be his court jester i'm sure

With all due respect.
Again, my personal position has never been on display. And no man's SHOULD BE.
What IS glaringly obvious to me in this, is that ANY man who has "paid" for issues, mistakes or otherwise, (so long as not a blatant risk placed on society), should be left free of the type unbelievable behaviour on display here.
What people are doing to this individual, and this Stakeholder group in its entirety here is nothing short of disgusting, and shows a "lack" of many things, on a lot of levels.

[Supermag]

Funny you should mention Rannach, Abhunter8.

I had one of his guys try to run us out of there once. Tried to play the Jedi mind trick with us and make us think we couldn't be there. LOL

He did make it so it wasn't worth staying in there though. Drove around all over the place when we were sitting.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

With all due respect.
Again, my personal position has never been on display. And no man's SHOULD BE.
What IS glaringly obvious to me in this, is that ANY man who has "paid" for issues, mistakes or otherwise, (so long as not a blatant risk placed on society), should be left free of the type unbelievable behaviour on display here.
What people are doing to this individual, and this Stakeholder group in its entirety here is nothing short of disgusting, and shows a "lack" of many things, on a lot of levels.

So poaching is no big deal as long as you pay your penalty? Even if you are a repeat offender doesn't mean anything? Everyone should forgive and forget after that? Odd you don't give your personal opinion yet you keep leaving and coming back to type some more and call everyone else down for voicing an opinion.

[Ronji]

Originally Posted by lannie

They have not had the credibility for a very long time for the citizens of Alberta to have the trust or faith to believe otherwise. Now McMahon is on the board it has further smeared the members of APOS who were "clean". APOS has spiralled down into a cesspool of corruption that needs to be dissolved.

And how did you determine that they have no credibility? Be reading these posts?

Cesspool of corruption? How is it corrupt?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Welllll....They put up with his $)*’ for 40 years for a starter

If you read post #181 it speaks a little towards that. I don’t actually know if APOS has the power to do anything of substance.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

If you read post #181 it speaks a little towards that. I don’t actually know if APOS has the power to do anything of substance.

Tork,

Thanks for coming on here and shedding some light to the issue. Looking from the outside in, the solution seems simple, but often that is not the case. It sounds like whats needed is pressure or direction from the ministry/government or a significant change in the way APOS accepts nominations for elected positions. Either way I don't believe Lloyd is doing any Outfitters a favor by being on the executive.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

So poaching is no big deal as long as you pay your penalty? Even if you are a repeat offender doesn't mean anything? Everyone should forgive and forget after that? Odd you don't give your personal opinion yet you keep leaving and coming back to type some more and call everyone else down for voicing an opinion.

IMO some outfitters see poaching fines/convictions nothing more than the cost of doing buisness. and if slaps on the wrists continue, so will the poaching by these guys. Fines need to be financially crippling for any changes to occur.

and no need to worry about tarnished reputations because it happens to (some) of the members.

that is why electing/appointing LLoyd thing was a no brainier for them. They've all been there(some, IMO)

or maybe the majority have. not sure(IMO)

[HoytCRX32]

Would the Chartered Accountant's Association elect as a director, someone who perpetrated a significant PONZI Scheme, regardless of whether he/she spent time in prison (did his/her time)? Regardless of whether it could be "technically" approved (as per the bylaws) I suspect they would consider the optics unacceptable. This is assuming they would even allow such a person back into their organization, which I highly doubt would happen.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Tork,

Thanks for coming on here and shedding some light to the issue. Looking from the outside in, the solution seems simple, but often that is not the case. It sounds like whats needed is pressure or direction from the ministry/government or a significant change in the way APOS accepts nominations for elected positions. Either way I don't believe Lloyd is doing any Outfitters a favor by being on the executive.

Why do you care so much? Serious question (I'm assuming that you're not an outfitter). Where I'm going with this is that I think electing LM to their BoD looks really good on them, and by that I mean, on the reputation of an organization that is already very, very tarnished. From what I've seen from apos over the last few years, this should come as no surprise to anyone. Almost to be expected. And whatever shred of credibility that organization ever had is very quickly disappearing. Or possibly gone altogether. They've had poachers on their board, even sitting as president, in the past. Wouldn't surprise me to see more in the future. And to be truthful, this just might be the rope that apos needs to eventually hang itself.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

With all due respect.
Again, my personal position has never been on display. And no man's SHOULD BE.
What IS glaringly obvious to me in this, is that ANY man who has "paid" for issues, mistakes or otherwise, (so long as not a blatant risk placed on society), should be left free of the type unbelievable behaviour on display here.
What people are doing to this individual, and this Stakeholder group in its entirety here is nothing short of disgusting, and shows a "lack" of many things, on a lot of levels.

You say you're not giving your personal opinion and proceed to give your personal opinion...

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by albertadave

Why do you care so much? Serious question (I'm assuming that you're not an outfitter). Where I'm going with this is that I think electing LM to their BoD looks really good on them, and by that I mean, on the reputation of an organization that is already very, very tarnished. From what I've seen from apos over the last few years, this should come as no surprise to anyone. Almost to be expected. And whatever shred of credibility that organization ever had is very quickly disappearing. Or possibly gone altogether. They've had poachers on their board, even sitting as president, in the past. Wouldn't surprise me to see more in the future. And to be truthful, this just might be the rope that apos needs to eventually hang itself.

You are correct, I am not an outfitter. The APOS is a stakeholder that directly effects the hunting opportunities of resident hunters in Alberta. They lobby for the interest of their Membership and we hope for good wildlife management. I believe their executive should be held to a high moral standard to ensure that their Members activities are lawful and moral. Now you have an individual monitoring those activities who himself has demonstrated poor moral character. Why shouldn't every resident hunter care?

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

You are correct, I am not an outfitter. The APOS is a stakeholder that directly effects the hunting opportunities of resident hunters in Alberta. They lobby for the interest of their Membership and we hope for good wildlife management. I believe their executive should be held to a high moral standard to ensure that their Members activities are lawful and moral. Now you have an individual monitoring those activities who himself has demonstrated poor moral character. Why shouldn't every resident hunter care?

One more quick point before I go. APOS doesn’t control the allocation numbers, our government does. They might administer the process and advocate for its members, but the government calls the shots on what actually happens.

I’m not sure if everybody on here complaining about “evil APOS” realizes that or not. Just like any organization they will support and fight on behalf of their members, but if you really want to fix this you need to lobby who actually calls the shots, and they’re currently called the NDP 😳

[walking buffalo]

Tork, Are you purposefully trying to mislead? If not, How could you Not know the facts?


APOS, sure as Lloyd being a Poacher, IS FULLY and Completely responsible for governing sanctions against APOS membership outfitters that break the law!

This commentary below is COMPLETE GARBAGE!, likely as an attempt to fool those that read it.

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

And here lies the issue with APOS ! They aren’t really a governing body although they are treated as such in some cases.





What they actually are is an administrator of the allocations required to outfit non residents in Alberta and an association for its members. Which unlike other jurisdictions are required to be members whether they want the “benefits” or not.

If a law is broken by a member they are charged by F&W at the direction of or on behalf of the crown. They go to court just like anybody else and there’s an outcome good or bad. Now if convicted you are contacted by APOS and a review takes place of your actions, and you’re accessed an additional fine or disciplinary action by the association.
This is where things get “grey” because people assume APOS should step in and take all the allocations from the offender like an angry master and the outfitter then goes bankrupt and hides his head in shame.
In reality it’s very hard for an association to do this, and other members likely don’t want to see huge expenditures going towards civil court cases. There’s also the issue with who decides exactly how steep the internal penalty is ? Does a technicality warrant loss of use ? Is there a 3 strike rule ? Does APOS support the crown even if the evidence is questionable regardless of the situation? Very slippery slope that one !!

What we’ve seen lately from the crown/judges are huge fines and suspensions. A $80,000 fine and 22 year ban on anything to do with hunting/outfittting hurts even the biggest outfitters out there, I promise you that.
In my opinion we should be depending on the judicial system to take care of these issues, not tasking APOS with it.

Next door we have GOABC who is a very powerful advocate for us, but they have nothing to do with administrating how the government handles the outfitting industry. And in my opinion that’s exactly how it should be !
If quotas need to be changed, they’re changed by the government. If you have an issue with it then you ask your association for help. If you’re convicted of an offence the government takes care of who can continue to operate or not, there’s no middle man. It’s way more cut and dry !

APOS is THE delegated authority, in charge of developing and enforcing rules that Outfitters and guides must follow to be a member in good standing, as both a business or Director!

Yes, the Government could intervene and make APOS change their bylaws.

OR, APOS could manage themselves as promised by signing to be the delegated authority, and making and Enforcing new bylaws that truly punishes the stink out of their ranks.






From the Wildlife Act Regulations.

(Section 10(2) of this Regulation)

The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society
Interpretation of Schedule
1(1) In this Schedule,
(a) “by‑laws” means the by‑laws made by the Society under section 10;
(b) “fiscal year” means the fiscal year of the Society, as specified in the by‑laws;
(c) “Society” means the Alberta Professional Outfitters Society referred to in section 2(1).
Continuation of delegated authority, and delegated functions
2(1) The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society is continued as a delegated authority referred to in section 104(1)(b) of the Act.
(2) The Society is delegated the following powers, duties and functions, to be carried out in accordance with the Act, this Regulation and the objects and by‑laws of the Society:
(a) the issue of outfitter‑guide permits and guides’ designations;
(b) the distribution, including transfers, of allocations;
(c) the issue of non‑resident alien licences authorizing the hunting of big game animals;
(d) the collection of fees for licences, permits and guides’ designations;
(e) the designation of, and the setting of the qualifications for, guides;
(f) the cancellation and suspension of licences, permits and guides’ designations, issued by the Society;
(g) establishment of the kinds of protection of deposits required by section 57(2) of this Regulation.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

WB, this thread is fueled by misguided anger towards a senior citizen. Not logic lol

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

With all due respect.
Again, my personal position has never been on display. And no man's SHOULD BE.
What IS glaringly obvious to me in this, is that ANY man who has "paid" for issues, mistakes or otherwise, (so long as not a blatant risk placed on society), should be left free of the type unbelievable behaviour on display here.
What people are doing to this individual, and this Stakeholder group in its entirety here is nothing short of disgusting, and shows a "lack" of many things, on a lot of levels.

We will call you "circle talker"......now go forth and speak to those who will listen.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Tork, Are you purposefully trying to mislead? If not, How could you Not know the facts?


APOS, sure as Lloyd being a Poacher, IS FULLY and Completely responsible for governing sanctions against APOS membership outfitters that break the law!

This commentary below is COMPLETE GARBAGE!, likely as an attempt to fool those that read it.





APOS is THE delegated authority, in charge of developing and enforcing rules that Outfitters and guides must follow to be a member in good standing, as both a business or Director!

Yes, the Government could intervene and make APOS change their bylaws.

OR, APOS could manage themselves as promised by signing to be the delegated authority, and making and Enforcing new bylaws that truly punishes the stink out of their ranks.






From the Wildlife Act Regulations.

(Section 10(2) of this Regulation)

The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society
Interpretation of Schedule
1(1) In this Schedule,
(a) “by‑laws” means the by‑laws made by the Society under section 10;
(b) “fiscal year” means the fiscal year of the Society, as specified in the by‑laws;
(c) “Society” means the Alberta Professional Outfitters Society referred to in section 2(1).
Continuation of delegated authority, and delegated functions
2(1) The Alberta Professional Outfitters Society is continued as a delegated authority referred to in section 104(1)(b) of the Act.
(2) The Society is delegated the following powers, duties and functions, to be carried out in accordance with the Act, this Regulation and the objects and by‑laws of the Society:
(a) the issue of outfitter‑guide permits and guides’ designations;
(b) the distribution, including transfers, of allocations;
(c) the issue of non‑resident alien licences authorizing the hunting of big game animals;
(d) the collection of fees for licences, permits and guides’ designations;
(e) the designation of, and the setting of the qualifications for, guides;
(f) the cancellation and suspension of licences, permits and guides’ designations, issued by the Society;
(g) establishment of the kinds of protection of deposits required by section 57(2) of this Regulation.

Really ? So APOS could impose a ruling banning an individual from participating in the outfitting industry the same as the crown could ?

I’d love to see that one play out in court !!!

How about APOS telling the government what the non resident allocation numbers are going to be going forward, and not the other way around?
You think that will fly ?

Surely the governing body would decide all manner of process for that sector of government???

[Torkdiesel]

Another way to look at it is if APOS truly is the governing body as you say they are then why does the crown impose fines and suspensions ? If APOS is responsible for sanctions and suspensions on their members then why does the crown impose fines and suspensions first ?

[Joe Black]

In # 204 you said you were going.

Did you mean the bathroom?