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  #91  
Old 05-24-2020, 05:56 PM
RZR RZR is offline
 
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Originally Posted by drake View Post
Some really stupid comments on this thread.

We arenít living in the 1970 anymore. The price to apply for draws is ridiculously low. There are no barriers to entry and no risk to those who arenít serious about actually hunting the draws they are awarded. The province has changed, the population has changed, the landscape has changed, technology has changed but the draw system has stayed basically the same....

Alberta needs to increase the price of draws to a level that makes people get serious about their applications. $50-$100 per draw code should help reduce a lot of the bottle necks. The longer we wait the worse itís going to get.

Donít tell me about ďreduced opportunityĒ either......if you can afford to hunt and shoot you can afford a $50 draw application. The tag is the cheapest part of hunting.
Ah make it an elitistís sport. Screw the older gentleman who maybe donít have a lot of money, but still like to hunt. The tag should be the cheapest part of hunting. You want to make it better, get rid of the nonresident tags. You should be ok with that now that your buddy and you donít guide anymore. How is Phil doing by the way? Make it like it used to be, every draw is a lottery then everybody is on the same playing field and it would be like Christmas on result day!
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  #92  
Old 05-24-2020, 07:20 PM
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Lefty-Canuck Lefty-Canuck is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
Your point is true so long as the high priority hoarders stay out of the draw. That is not what concerns me. What is going to happen when all those priority points come home to roost and actually start entering the draws?

What was a 5 or a 6 pull can easily become a 8 or 9 pull at that time.
Thatís fine when they do because tHey allowed many to go before them... back to the line up analogy lol.

You just have to wait your turn otherwise... trust me if you do the math, you wonít want to wait for all the high priorities to draw before you even have a chance to draw, 999 allows those with a lower priority a chance at a tag.

LC
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  #93  
Old 05-24-2020, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by RZR View Post
Ah make it an elitistís sport. Screw the older gentleman who maybe donít have a lot of money, but still like to hunt. The tag should be the cheapest part of hunting. You want to make it better, get rid of the nonresident tags. You should be ok with that now that your buddy and you donít guide anymore. How is Phil doing by the way? Make it like it used to be, every draw is a lottery then everybody is on the same playing field and it would be like Christmas on result day!
Re read my post....especially the first line.

Now read it again....

You donít get it.
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  #94  
Old 05-24-2020, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drake View Post
Some really stupid comments on this thread.

We arenít living in the 1970 anymore. The price to apply for draws is ridiculously low. There are no barriers to entry and no risk to those who arenít serious about actually hunting the draws they are awarded. The province has changed, the population has changed, the landscape has changed, technology has changed but the draw system has stayed basically the same....

Alberta needs to increase the price of draws to a level that makes people get serious about their applications. $50-$100 per draw code should help reduce a lot of the bottle necks. The longer we wait the worse itís going to get.

Donít tell me about ďreduced opportunityĒ either......if you can afford to hunt and shoot you can afford a $50 draw application. The tag is the cheapest part of hunting.
Bingo
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  #95  
Old 05-24-2020, 10:23 PM
JustBen JustBen is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pikebreath View Post
What was a 5 or a 6 pull can easily become a 8 or 9 pull at that time.
Case in point, look at Turkey. You used to be able to get with a 6 or 7. Last year the lowest pool they drew from was 11.
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  #96  
Old 05-24-2020, 10:25 PM
elk eater elk eater is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drake View Post
Some really stupid comments on this thread.

We arenít living in the 1970 anymore. The price to apply for draws is ridiculously low. There are no barriers to entry and no risk to those who arenít serious about actually hunting the draws they are awarded. The province has changed, the population has changed, the landscape has changed, technology has changed but the draw system has stayed basically the same....

Alberta needs to increase the price of draws to a level that makes people get serious about their applications. $50-$100 per draw code should help reduce a lot of the bottle necks. The longer we wait the worse itís going to get.

Donít tell me about ďreduced opportunityĒ either......if you can afford to hunt and shoot you can afford a $50 draw application. The tag is the cheapest part of hunting.
^^^^ and this is officially the stupidest ^^^^

I have two boys that are eager to start hunting. One turns 12 this hunting season is super excited to start his adventures. So you think my 12 year old should have to spend $50 to apply for a draw that he will not get to hunt till he is most likely an adult. Letís say he wants to hunt trophy antelope, draw priority of 12 now most likely a 16-18 by the time he builds enough priority. So $800 just to apply. Yep you have just made it an elitist sport.

I support buying the Cert. I feel it will help with some of the issues. I also strongly support prepaying and draw you apply for other than 999. Prepay the tag and reimburse those who are not drawn.

I am also proud to say I am a priority 10 for bull moose. Started saving it just to hunt it with him when he was old enough and their grandfather is an 8 for the younger one. Was so happy to see we could add a youth hunter to our tags when they came out with that. Gonna be great !!! 12 year old kills 55Ē bull moose.

Last edited by elk eater; 05-24-2020 at 10:34 PM.
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  #97  
Old 05-24-2020, 10:38 PM
MooseRiverTrapper MooseRiverTrapper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elk eater View Post
^^^^ and this is officially the stupidest ^^^^

I have two boys that are eager to start hunting. One turns 12 this hunting season is super excited to start his adventures. So you think my 12 year old should have to spend $50 to apply for a draw that he will not get to hunt till he is most likely an adult. Letís say he wants to hunt trophy antelope, draw priority of 12 now most likely a 16-18 by the time he builds enough priority. So $800 just to apply. Yep you have just made it an elitist sport.

I support buying the Cert. I feel it will help with some of the issues. I also strongly support prepaying and draw you apply for other than 999. Prepay the tag and reimburse those who are not drawn.

I am also proud to say I am a priority 10 for bull moose. Started saving it just to hunt it with him when he was old enough and their grandfather is an 8 for the younger one. Was so happy to see we could add a youth hunter to our tags when they came out with that. Gonna be great !!! 12 year old kills 55Ē bull moose.
Letís be honest. You bought thousands of dollars of gear already. How much is that hunt for the 55Ē going to cost? Is $50 draw application to going make or break it?

You do realize that increasing the prices from chump change to a value that makes people thinks seriously about applying helps people like you and your son out. Go on that moose hunt with the boy a few more times then you would with draw pool flooded before your to old.
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  #98  
Old 05-24-2020, 10:54 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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If application fees go up to $50 , you could spend $500 or more on application fees that get you nothing. Just keep affordable application fees, but require a credit card when you apply , and the credit card is charged if you are drawn, and the people that don't really want to draw won't apply.
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  #99  
Old 05-24-2020, 11:08 PM
elk eater elk eater is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper View Post
Letís be honest. You bought thousands of dollars of gear already. How much is that hunt for the 55Ē going to cost? Is $50 draw application to going make or break it?

You do realize that increasing the prices from chump change to a value that makes people thinks seriously about applying helps people like you and your son out. Go on that moose hunt with the boy a few more times then you would with draw pool flooded before your to old.
I really do see what your saying but nope canít support it. Find another way. Itís about spending time with my boys, my father, and my friends. We need to keep it affordable. I have already reduced a pile of my hunting due to life is exspensive and kids are not cheap. ( would not have it any other way they are my greatest joy ) We play hockey, Hunt, fish, camping .... all expensive in their own right but raising costs is not the answer to draw priority.

My father is 70 years old and has hunted his entire life. He has paid his fees bought his tags supported and participated in conservation groups and practiced what he preached so future generations could enjoy the same outdoor privileges he has enjoyed. And now you want to make the cost go up to a level that would undoubtedly leave some on the outside looking in.

How about we suspend all tags to non resident albertans. No more guiding Americans for top dollar. That would open up a few tags and drop some priority numbers ?? Of course I do not support this just saying itís an easy solution. We can do better than raising costs.
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  #100  
Old 05-24-2020, 11:09 PM
RZR RZR is offline
 
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Get rid of the 999. You apply to build priorities and if you donít want to pull the tag that year you donít apply and you donít gain any points that year. That would keep the priorities down and it would make you decide what your hunting that year. If you have enough points you could pull all your tags in one year or pull one tag and leave the others for other years, but you just donít build priorities in the process. The thing with a random draw even the youngsterís have a chance at pulling a tag right from the get go of their hunting career. Iím all for helping the youngsters filling tags. I like watching the excitement of them pulling the trigger.
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  #101  
Old 05-24-2020, 11:11 PM
elk eater elk eater is offline
 
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
If application fees go up to $50 , you could spend $500 or more on application fees that get you nothing. Just keep affordable application fees, but require a credit card when you apply , and the credit card is charged if you are drawn, and the people that don't really want to draw won't apply.
Yep. This will stop a pile of the issues.
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  #102  
Old 05-24-2020, 11:46 PM
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marky_mark marky_mark is offline
 
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Cheap application fees are the problem
Iíd rather see an increase in tag fees, and you have to pay for them when you apply. And get reimbursed if your not successful
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  #103  
Old 05-25-2020, 07:00 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by RZR View Post
Get rid of the 999. You apply to build priorities and if you donít want to pull the tag that year you donít apply and you donít gain any points that year. That would keep the priorities down and it would make you decide what your hunting that year. If you have enough points you could pull all your tags in one year or pull one tag and leave the others for other years, but you just donít build priorities in the process. The thing with a random draw even the youngsterís have a chance at pulling a tag right from the get go of their hunting career. Iím all for helping the youngsters filling tags. I like watching the excitement of them pulling the trigger.
You do realize that anyone with a clue can build priority without drawing if they choose without the priority only option. Before we had this option ,I used to build priority without drawing by just applying with someone that didn't have enough priority to draw. If the draw required five points, you could apply on your own until you had three points, then apply with someone else that had zero priority points for a few years. If you still wanted to put off drawing, you then applied with someone else that didn't have priority for a few years. It usually isn't a problem to find a friend or relative that isn't interested in a certain draw, to use to do this, it just isn't as convenient as the priority only option.

But anyone that understands math realizes that the person that uses the priority system to build points for ten years, when they could draw every five years if they wanted to, actually draws only half as many tags in that ten year period, than the person that apples to draw every year, so the person that draws only one tag in ten years, actually shortens the waiting time for the people that try to draw every year.

So if you remove that option to build priority only, the people that want to build priority only, will just apply with someone else to do it anyways, and change nothing, or they may apply every year to draw, and if they draw, they will either hunt that year, or they just won't purchase the tag, and either way you will wait even longer to draw your tag.
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  #104  
Old 05-25-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Pasc43 View Post
Having to buy the wildlife certificate is purely to give them a bump in revenue and I'm all good with that.

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how incredibly narrow minded.... THEY WOULD HAVE SOLD IT ANYWAYS WHEN YOU PURCHASED YOUR TAGS!!!! THIS ONLY FORCES THE ANTI HUNTERS WHO APPLIED FOR THE TAGS BUT DIDNT PURCHASE THEM.
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  #105  
Old 05-25-2020, 10:06 PM
wheelsinairdrie wheelsinairdrie is offline
 
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I found www.albertahuntmap.ca today. One of the best presentations of the draw info I've found. Makes it really easy to figure out what your priority levels make you eligible for. They only have WT, mulie, elk and moose, but it's better than nothing. Should be helpful for deciding what draws to apply for tomorrow.
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  #106  
Old 05-25-2020, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RZR View Post
Get rid of the 999. You apply to build priorities and if you donít want to pull the tag that year you donít apply and you donít gain any points that year. That would keep the priorities down and it would make you decide what your hunting that year. If you have enough points you could pull all your tags in one year or pull one tag and leave the others for other years, but you just donít build priorities in the process. The thing with a random draw even the youngsterís have a chance at pulling a tag right from the get go of their hunting career. Iím all for helping the youngsters filling tags. I like watching the excitement of them pulling the trigger.
I'd go even further and just kibosh all priority. Make it 100% lottery every time, all species.

If we want to increase opportunity we could start with pressuring our government to step up wolf control efforts and re-institute the grizzly bear hunt on the eastern slopes. Let's get our population sizes back up and that'll solve a lot of the opportunity issues right there.
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  #107  
Old 05-25-2020, 11:58 PM
WeaselBeard WeaselBeard is offline
 
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I'd go even further and just kibosh all priority. Make it 100% lottery every time, all species.

If we want to increase opportunity we could start with pressuring our government to step up wolf control efforts and re-institute the grizzly bear hunt on the eastern slopes. Let's get our population sizes back up and that'll solve a lot of the opportunity issues right there.
I have many relatives in other jurisdictions that are strictly lottery. Not very favourable. One relative has applied in their lottery draw for over 40 years and has never been drawn and he has met and come across people who have gotten drawn 2 or 3 times in his jurisdiction over that period. Lottery - NO THANK YOU. At least with a priority system, you know your time will come -- lottery your time may never come in a hundred years, and another guy may get drawn every single year of his life -- hardly fair or equitable (this may be a far stretch, but the possibility exists).

I think the priority system is working fine as is, but could use some refinement on wasted license purchasing. I would propose, if you apply and get drawn, you must purchase that license/tag to avoid the wasting of tags (however for the antis, that cost may be a drop in the bucket or the cost of doing business and will waste anyway, but at least they are back at zero and adding some $ to the coffers). If you choose not to purchase a drawn license, then you cannot apply next year (or any future year) until that purchase(s) has been made in full (of course the purchased license(s) may not be valid due to expiry) similar to the harvest survey reports being mandatory which also has a penalty incurred.

If wasted or not, that drawn priority is gone for them and they start back at zero again.

If a hunter want to continue with 999/priority only, and eventually applies his P12 in an area that is only requiring P8, then I say that's fine and he has over-waited the requirement, but that is his prerogative and for him to realize his patience in building that priority level.

I am curious though how many anti do actually apply. Perhaps with the WC and the harvest reports being mandatory it may shed some light on this, but we'll never truly know because each year has its unique circumstances for everyone (especially this crazy year ---------------------- who knows?).

Bottom line is there will always be some who will not be pleased.
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  #108  
Old 05-26-2020, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Huk View Post
I'd go even further and just kibosh all priority. Make it 100% lottery every time, all species.

If we want to increase opportunity we could start with pressuring our government to step up wolf control efforts and re-institute the grizzly bear hunt on the eastern slopes. Let's get our population sizes back up and that'll solve a lot of the opportunity issues right there.
That sounds absolutely horrible. Keep in mind, the tag numbers will stay the same. Now all you have done is made it impossible to plan and strategize for years. I would prefer to ensure a steady stream of tags every year rather than have the feast of famine of tags. I agree about the wolves on the eastern slopes. however, I think that is more up to us than the government.
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  #109  
Old 05-26-2020, 07:44 AM
Byron Byron is offline
 
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Another way to ensure tags aren't drawn and wasted would be to have draws out earlier. Have results posted before the end of June. If licences aren't purchased by third week of July then all remaining non purchased licences go back into the barrel and people can reapply for a second round of draws out by the end of July.

This would do two things:

1) Force people to buy the tags if they truly intend to hunt, I understand it won't do anything about anti's drawings and buying tags, but if they are spending the money we can't control that anyways.

2) Would generate a second round of draw application revenue to assist with conservation ect without raising the application costs.

I have no issues with pre purchasing WC as its required anyways, but the whole raising the draw application is a tough one. Especially for a young family with kids who are just getting into hunting and want to start building priority. Keep applications affordable, limit it to Alberta residents for the draw codes, adopt Sask policies for non-resident draws for whitetail this will allow for out of province relatives to still hunt with family just doesn't need to be for our limited moose/elk/mule deer/ antelope tags. And allow for a second phase of draws for all drawn tags not purchased by a certain deadline. Even if only accounts for 5-10% of tags making it back into the second draw period that is still 5-10% opportunity to ensure tags aren't wasted and will help to continue to eat at the build up in priority and ensure tag/opportunities are utilized and help to meet conservation quotas/harvest numbers.

Last edited by Byron; 05-26-2020 at 07:50 AM.
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  #110  
Old 05-26-2020, 08:42 AM
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waldedw waldedw is offline
 
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I don't understand all the fuss over the cost of the draws, if you plan to hunt anyway then it costs nothing more, if you don't plan to buy a license and hunt this year then you shouldn't put in for draws this year.

People are saying it costs to much to put their kids in the draws ??????? a resident youth wildlife certificate costs $8.30 and with that they get a game bird licence. The cost to add them onto someone else's draw application is $0.00 so for a total of $8.30 you get the whole deal for youth's, that's less than taking them to McDonalds for a burger.

Seriously, don't try to convince anyone that it's because it costs to much, if $8.30 is to much to to be able to get your son or daughter a start at the draw priority plus a license to hunt upland birds then it's obvious that something other than money is keep you from exposing them to hunting IMHO.
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  #111  
Old 05-26-2020, 08:52 AM
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I don't think people are referring to the current costs or at least I'm not. No issues with the cost of licences/applications.

I'm referring to cries for higher applications fees that people believe will solve the issue. Where do you stop $50/draw? $100? ect. That is where it will become tougher is what i am saying if your family (legitimately) all hunt and there are 5 in the house hold applying for moose/elk/mule deer/ antelope and applications are now $50 (Just a number) all of a sudden you shelling out potentially $1000/yr simply to build priority for your family...who all hunt...

I'm fine with charging once drawn, that is not an issue. if you draw commit to the tag.

I'm feel we already give the government enough money, and I'm sure it'll be more after this whole COVID deal. Lets not start giving them excuses to reach into our pockets more. Keep applications affordable but make the draw applicants accountable by setting a date to purchase tags and if not used put them back into a draw. Or charge a credit card upon successfully drawing a licence.

Just my thoughts
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  #112  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:22 AM
Fwee6 Fwee6 is online now
 
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Default Moose Draws

Can't recall from previous years...

Are we only allowed to apply for 1 of the 3 moose draws?

- This morning, once I selected "antlered moose", the other 2 moose draws disappeared from the selection list.
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  #113  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Fwee6 View Post
Can't recall from previous years...

Are we only allowed to apply for 1 of the 3 moose draws?

- This morning, once I selected "antlered moose", the other 2 moose draws disappeared from the selection list.
Only can apply for one moose draw per year, at least antlered vs antlerless.
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  #114  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:42 AM
Fwee6 Fwee6 is online now
 
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Only can apply for one moose draw per year, at least antlered vs antlerless.
Got it, thanks!
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  #115  
Old 05-26-2020, 09:45 AM
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58thecat 58thecat is offline
 
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Thumbs up

Just did my moose, elk and mule deer was real easy and quick!!!!good luck to all!
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  #116  
Old 05-26-2020, 10:01 AM
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MountainTi MountainTi is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Dick284 View Post
Back before WIN cards you needed your Wildlife Certificate to enter draws.
You also had to put a money order in with your application envelope too.

Now with everything being online, and online payment, guys still whine like mules......
I remember using personal cheques at the F&W office
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  #117  
Old 05-26-2020, 10:27 AM
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How long before a private app fixes the gov's latest attempt to make things better?

I wanted to see the draw quota information.

Yah gotta buy a Wildlife Cert first.

No big deal, but the way this information is only accessible during the purchasing stage is just, well, only a government agency would do it this way....
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  #118  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:13 AM
Evan83 Evan83 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by walking buffalo View Post
How long before a private app fixes the gov's latest attempt to make things better?

I wanted to see the draw quota information.

Yah gotta buy a Wildlife Cert first.

No big deal, but the way this information is only accessible during the purchasing stage is just, well, only a government agency would do it this way....
Were you able to figure out how to see quotas?

I like how Saskatchewan has all the quotas in their draw booklet.

Last edited by Evan83; 05-26-2020 at 11:20 AM.
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  #119  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:30 AM
ABM ABM is offline
 
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Where can I see what priority I am?

I applied for a bunch of things last year but was not drawn..am I right in thinking I should now be a priority 1?
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  #120  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:30 AM
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Were you able to figure out how to see quotas?

I like how Saskatchewan has all the quotas in their draw booklet.
Just need to buy your wildlife certificate.

Or put it into your cart, check the individual draw to see the quotas, then don't pay....

Silly that this information isn't available without having to go through the checkout process....
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