Hunting dogs or dogs hunting??

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I looked but I soon realized that it's doubtful that I'll find a particular case of someone being charged with their dog running at large or harassing wildlife (two different offences) because only a summary offence ticket is issued to the owner. Unless you know of a site that keeps stats on how many tickets were issued for littering, loitering, jaywalking, having an unlicensed dog, etc, etc.

I don't understand why it's so hard to believe that someone would be charged with it though. They are laws and are enforced if it is reported to the proper authorities. It's a fairly common issue out in the country.

What is your point? That the laws don't exist or they do but are not enforced?

My point is your statements about rampant wildlife abuse and charges is simply a result of an overactive imagination likely stimulated by time spent under the bridge.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

My point is your statements about rampant wildlife abuse and charges is simply a result of an overactive imagination likely stimulated by time spent under the bridge.

"Rampant?"

Now that comment was the result of an "overactive imagination".

But I don't know what "time spent under the bridge" means though. I guess that you got me on that one?

[Redfrog]

No problem Dave. go to www.billygoatgruff.com lots of info there.

[gunslinger]

man i wish i could take hunter to the mountains with me, he is fully finger trained and awsome in the bush, kinda doesnt like bears though, hes a chicken with them.

When me and him are training hard he packs around 12 pounds in his pack, i usually stick a couple of 2l pop bottles on him for training,

[gunslinger]

You have to have a very obediant dog if your going to use them in the hills, anytime your hutning in the yukon or bc and theres dogs being used, these dogs are very controllable, no barking and snap finger trained.

I was sitting in the campground just before fiddles pass this year watching a band of ewes just before the lake and all of a sudden here comes a tall guy with his wife and there daughter , hiking in shorts up over fiddles pass, and yup you guessed it here comes there german sheppard mutt, whats the son of a gun do, sees the sheep and gone, what do they do they start yelling get back here, come on get back here, well of course the sheep head high.

I know for a fact that there is way more hikers taking there mutts in teh hills that are chasing animals. Its not dogs used to accompany us in the hills hunting that are acting bad. My dog ever gets out of line in the bush i just have to look at him and he knows he better straighten up right now. And i mean even if he looks at a gray jay. It comes with strict obediance and training , and if they dont have it your not going to take them hunting with you and if you do it will be only once, cause you aint got a chance if hes messing around.

[Redfrog]

"I know for a fact that there is way more hikers taking there mutts in teh hills that are chasing animals. Its not dogs used to accompany us in the hills hunting that are acting bad. My dog ever gets out of line in the bush i just have to look at him and he knows he better straighten up right now. And i mean even if he looks at a gray jay. It comes with strict obediance and training , and if they dont have it your not going to take them hunting with you and if you do it will be only once, cause you aint got a chance if hes messing around."



SEVEN PAGES TO FINALLY GET CLARITY.

THANK YOU!!!

Now what is finger training? I use hand signals for my labs and I have used a form of finger training in traffic in the city, on other drivers, but I doubt that would work with my dog.

[simplify]

any dog you take to the bush should very well trained, as you definitely dont want your dog to run after a moose even in the off season, bad things can happen and it wouldnt be the moose that gets hurt.
this thread makes me sad i no longer have my dog , he was a great bird dog and ok at rabbit hunting, he would never retrieve rabbits for some reason, but he would track them down and stay with it so i can find it.
one day when i get back to having a yard and reasonable work hours i will get me another great friend.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

SEVEN PAGES TO FINALLY GET CLARITY.

THANK YOU!!!

Only if you accept the premise that the restriction was put in place to keep dogs from indiscriminately chasing wildlife and the reason we should be allowed to have dogs along is simply because someone else can - which I do not.

Personally I believe that it would be of great benefit to hunters to allow them the use of pack dogs and tethered tracking dogs and it would have no negative impact on the sport or the wildlife in any way. Whether we want to tackle the issue of running bears with hounds as in much of the rest of the world, running moose with dogs as in the Scandinavian countries, deer with dogs as in Ontario and many parts of the south east US is another arm of the problem and IMO needs to be discussed if we are to open the issue of hunters accompanied by dogs - what is and isn't appropriate, how will it be readily identified and communicated. Right now the rule is pretty clear, easy to follow and regulate. With any changes the water muddies very quickly.

Originally Posted by FCLightning

Only if you accept the premise that the restriction was put in place to keep dogs from indiscriminately chasing wildlife and the reason we should be allowed to have dogs along is simply because someone else can - which I do not.

Personally I believe that it would be of great benefit to hunters to allow them the use of pack dogs and tethered tracking dogs and it would have no negative impact on the sport or the wildlife in any way. Whether we want to tackle the issue of running bears with hounds as in much of the rest of the world, running moose with dogs as in the Scandinavian countries, deer with dogs as in Ontario and many parts of the south east US is another arm of the problem and IMO needs to be discussed if we are to open the issue of hunters accompanied by dogs - what is and isn't appropriate, how will it be readily identified and communicated. Right now the rule is pretty clear, easy to follow and regulate. With any changes the water muddies very quickly.

I think the rule was put in place to prevent dogs from discriminately chasing wildlife at the owner's request and allowing pack dogs wouldn't change the intent of that law one iota. There are already other laws in place to prevent indiscriminant chasing....they wouldn't change either. Water seems pretty clear to me. Just a bit more safety and opportunity for hunters and no change in the intent of any laws. Seems a win/win to me.

[Andrzej]

I take my dog with me sometimes when hunting deer and grouse. She stays in cab if I go out with rifle but comes with me when taking shotgun or 22.
I've met CO and he checked my guns if they were unloaded and did not comment on dog being in truck.

As to camp dog I have a friend that breeds Russo-European Lajkas and those dogs are always protecting hunting camp from unwanted visitors.

I wish we could use dogs for trucking wounded big game...even if it would involved notifying "dog hot line" on check cord or passing some tests...

Bloodhounds were developed just to exceed in this task that is NO NO in Alberta.

Let's get petition going...

Andrew

[Redfrog]

licensing, report to a hotline, testing, tethers???????/

For what? a problem that doesn't exist? We have dogs in the field now in areas that hold big game and yet the advocates of these things on this thread can not show ONE case where someone has been charged with wildlife harassment even though it is currently a law.

We have hikers and bird hunters with dogs out in areas that have big game. No problem but because someone suggests a dog ACCOMPANY them while hunting big game, now the sky is falling???? Gimme a break.

It is already LEGAL to use a dog as a packer. That explains all the sheep carcasses strewn hither and yon in the mountains.

Common sense is really dead.

There is a law against harassing wildlife.
There are bird dogs in the field now.
There are companion dogs in the field now all year round, including breeding and birthing season.
And yet we do not have dogs running amok after wildlife. Not one case shown.

Add a big game hunter to the mix and all wildlife lives under constant threat of harassment. Even though the same big game hunter was hiking last week with the same dog or bird hunting with the same dog the week before.

How bloody ridiculous.!!!!!

[Skinnydipper]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

licensing, report to a hotline, testing, tethers???????/

For what? a problem that doesn't exist? We have dogs in the field now in areas that hold big game and yet the advocates of these things on this thread can not show ONE case where someone has been charged with wildlife harassment even though it is currently a law.

We have hikers and bird hunters with dogs out in areas that have big game. No problem but because someone suggests a dog ACCOMPANY them while hunting big game, now the sky is falling???? Gimme a break.

It is already LEGAL to use a dog as a packer. That explains all the sheep carcasses strewn hither and yon in the mountains.

Common sense is really dead.

There is a law against harassing wildlife.
There are bird dogs in the field now.
There are companion dogs in the field now all year round, including breeding and birthing season.
And yet we do not have dogs running amok after wildlife. Not one case shown.

Add a big game hunter to the mix and all wildlife lives under constant threat of harassment. Even though the same big game hunter was hiking last week with the same dog or bird hunting with the same dog the week before.

How bloody ridiculous.!!!!!

Yah you guys

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Perhaps in the case of using pack dogs for big game hunting an addition to the current regs is needed. For example:

"Pack dogs must remain within XX feet of their handler and under his direct control at all times." or words to that effect.

That way the onus is on the dog handler to decide whether or not his particular dog should be tethered or not (or even be out there). Also, if a dog is within a set distance from his handler there is no confusion over whether or not he is assisting in the hunt.

Something like that would be allot easier to enforce and would remove any grey area. Responsible dog owners with the right dog shouldn't have a problem with it, there's a better chance of keeping "problem" dogs out of the hunting area and there's no wiggle room for anyone that wants to use his dog to assist in the hunt.

I posted this yesterday but no one commented on it. Is it because it's a goofy idea and it wouldn't work?

It just seems to me that a proposed regulation like this would be a good compromise for both the pro-pack dog and anti-pack dog camps as well as convincing CO's that there was an enforceable standard that pack dogs would have to meet.

[Pudelpointer]

I am amazed that there are outdoorsmen on here that think having a dog in the field with you is unethical or provides the hunter with an untenable advantage! How is this possible.

Now I can understand resistance to hunting deer with hounds (not saying I think it should be banned in other jurisdictions, just acknowledging how most westerners feel about the issue) but we are talking about having the ability to have a dog, carrying stuff I am assuming you would not want scattered all over the place, walk beside you while hunting. There must be a lot of "cat people" lurking on here.

And Nait Hadya, seriously? How did that cougar get in the tree in your avatar? Are you assuming that all dogs run wild like those hounds?

[bighornrobin]

I like dogs, but they should stay in camp, especially in the 400's...too many times I have seen guys "hiking" on the side of the mountain with their dog 2 days before sheep season opens, towards a band of big rams. Well, of course, the sheep think its a wolf and don't even hit the next valley they run over the top of the mountain so fast into the park!!!!!!!! I'm pretty sick of seeing this happen so often.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

I am amazed that there are outdoorsmen on here that think having a dog in the field with you is unethical or provides the hunter with an untenable advantage! How is this possible.

Now I can understand resistance to hunting deer with hounds (not saying I think it should be banned in other jurisdictions, just acknowledging how most westerners feel about the issue) but we are talking about having the ability to have a dog, carrying stuff I am assuming you would not want scattered all over the place, walk beside you while hunting. There must be a lot of "cat people" lurking on here.

And Nait Hadya, seriously? How did that cougar get in the tree in your avatar? Are you assuming that all dogs run wild like those hounds?

JMO But I don't think that the concern is about the dogs that will walk beside you while hunting, it's about the other dogs that might end up out there. I'd be the first one to vote in support of this proposal if the regs were adjusted a bit to clearly define what being a pack dog is and what he can and cannot do. I don't think that merely saying that a dog can't assist in the hunt or harass wildlife is clear enough and is open to interpretation.

[cowdog]

wow why do we always seem to have "blanket" laws that punish everyone instead of just dealing with unlawful people and their actions! HAVING MY DOGS WITH ME IN THE MOUNTAINS ANYTIME SHOULD NOT BE REGULATED!!!! If i harass wildlife with them and its against the law then punish me not every other dog owner.

[podman]

Originally Posted by cowdog

wow why do we always seem to have "blanket" laws that punish everyone instead of just dealing with unlawful people and their actions! HAVING MY DOGS WITH ME IN THE MOUNTAINS ANYTIME SHOULD NOT BE REGULATED!!!! If i harass wildlife with them and its against the law then punish me not every other dog owner.

Amen!!! Especially "HAVING MY DOGS WITH ME IN THE MOUNTAINS ANYTIME SHOULD NOT BE REGULATED!!!!".

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

I am amazed that there are outdoorsmen on here that think having a dog in the field with you is unethical or provides the hunter with an untenable advantage! How is this possible.

Now I can understand resistance to hunting deer with hounds (not saying I think it should be banned in other jurisdictions, just acknowledging how most westerners feel about the issue) but we are talking about having the ability to have a dog, carrying stuff I am assuming you would not want scattered all over the place, walk beside you while hunting. There must be a lot of "cat people" lurking on here.

And Nait Hadya, seriously? How did that cougar get in the tree in your avatar? Are you assuming that all dogs run wild like those hounds?

seriously? what would these "pack dogs" be able to carry? their own food and water? therefore "pack dog" is a misnomer. what some want is a legal excuse to bring the pooch along, for their comfort and well being. others recognized the advantage their pooch would provide regarding hunting, their just not being honest about it. tethered tracking? now your asking to allow the dog to participate in the hunt, that is a far stretch from a pack dog. doesn't make cents to me.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

No problem Dave. go to www.billygoatgruff.com lots of info there.

Agreed... anyone with less than 2500 posts is a troll for sure... just a drive-by part-timer. LOL

Troll is a bit harsh Red... HD is a brother board member. Maybe misguided and ill-informed like I always am, but a brother board member.

As for not being enforced, I've been hiking and skiing with a CO friend of mine who hasn't hesitated to enforce the law on a number of occaisions when he's come across people with off-leash dogs.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

seriously? what would these "pack dogs" be able to carry? their own food and water? therefore "pack dog" is a misnomer. what some want is a legal excuse to bring the pooch along, for their comfort and well being. others recognized the advantage their pooch would provide regarding hunting, their just not being honest about it. tethered tracking? now your asking to allow the dog to participate in the hunt, that is a far stretch from a pack dog. doesn't make cents to me.

You failed to answer my question.

IMO and experience, a dog is of NO advantage while actually hunting big game, not tracking wounded game, they are only a liability. Bears are another discussion. Speaking of bear NH, what do you think about using dogs for hunting bears?

[Tundra Monkey]

Trained pack dogs of certain breeds can carry big weight when needed.

50+lbs on a backpack hunt is a big % of the total weight. Crap even 20lbs is huge.

That being said that is not the primary use of my dog. It is for my protection. I have a family that relies on me and that is #1.

I also feel that it is a better experience of a hunt. When my dog is sitting on the floor at night and I walk over and lay down beside her and give her a scratch, I like to think that she's thinking about the same thing I am. We have been through some interesting times and have formed a special bond....I am hers.

tm

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

seriously? what would these "pack dogs" be able to carry? their own food and water? therefore "pack dog" is a misnomer. what some want is a legal excuse to bring the pooch along, for their comfort and well being. others recognized the advantage their pooch would provide regarding hunting, their just not being honest about it. tethered tracking? now your asking to allow the dog to participate in the hunt, that is a far stretch from a pack dog. doesn't make cents to me.

A pack dog could carry a lot. If the law ever changed to allow you to take a dog with you I would bring a Bermise(sp?) Mountain dog or similar breed. I would keep it in camp and if I got an animal it would help a lot in packing it out of the mountains or foothills. As mentioned before taking a dog with you on the actual hunt is more likly a disadvantage. Not only would you have to wory about finding/stalking an animal you would also have to wory about what the dog is up to as well. And why not let a dog track a wounded animal if that what it was bred for? Also the security of having a dog in camp in bear country would be greatly appreciated as mentioned by others previously.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Nait I must admit that your arguements have made me look at dogs in an entirely new light. I had no idea the danger they posed to wildlife and the unfair advantages they offered to hunters. I am going to change my resolution to read "All dogs used for hunting in Alberta should be banned" It only seems fair and the best thing for our wildlife

Not sure where you jumped the shark nait....but it was definitely several posts ago......

i have seen this type of overreaction to constructive debate before. it usually comes from a feminine corespondent, who has lost a debate and resorts to personal attacks. ghostwriter? lost your mind? agree with me and my opinion or i will attack your hunting? is this who the hunters of alberta have chosen to speak for them? defend their rights? or was this your way of launching a public campaign to remove the hunting rights of alberta hunters? just a few questions.....

[walking buffalo]

Dog sled team to get into the late october mountain backcountry. I like it!

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Dog sled team to get into the late october mountain backcountry. I like it!

Alpine touring skis and an Alaskan Malamute or 2 would be interesting!!

The old time Swiss guides would be watching from above.

tm

[Redfrog]

"Troll is a bit harsh Red... HD is a brother board member. Maybe misguided and ill-informed like I always am, but a brother board member.

As for not being enforced, I've been hiking and skiing with a CO friend of mine who hasn't hesitated to enforce the law on a number of occaisions when he's come across people with off-leash dogs."

Okie I didn't call anyone a troll. He may be my brother on this board, but since if my other brother was behaving like a troll with huge unfounded claims, I would direct him to bridge rail to meet the goat.


Just so I'm clear on your claim, are you telling me that a game warden friend of yours charged someone with a dog off leash in violation of the wildlife act?


OR is this a park ranger enforcing a leash law in a specified area with little or nothing to do with wildlife harassment and more to do with annoying people using the area?

[catnthehat]

This whole thing about being accompanied by dogs is all hogwash anyway, and i think it should be thrown out.
There are still a few trappers around who use dogs, and will be dammed if they are going to leave them at home, or not shoot a moose or deer if they see one, or not put them on the trail of a critter that has broken a snare togle. I also don't think it should matter if we are in boreal forest or the mountains.

Cat

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

You failed to answer my question.

IMO and experience, a dog is of NO advantage while actually hunting big game, not tracking wounded game, they are only a liability. Bears are another discussion. Speaking of bear NH, what do you think about using dogs for hunting bears?

i thought your question to be rhetorical. "NO advangate hunting big game"??

i would support the hunting of bears,wolves,coyotes,fox,cougar,lynx,bobcat,
ducks,geese,pheasants,grouse,rabbit,hare,with K9's. did i leave any out?

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I also don't think it should matter if we are in boreal forest or the mountains. Cat

x2

tm