To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by gman1978

As far as I am concerned it is one step closer to commercializing hunting in Alberta... more that it already is. ?

huh???

[Springer]

Oh my Goodness Rich you certainly have stirred the pot on this one !!

I have been able to read what some of the experts opinions are on here though .

SRD sets out a certain amount of tag numbers for the WMU's for harvest that they expect will sustain a healthy population after the season closes , if not they adjust it accordingly, i guess except whitetails on a general tag.

Even though we buy our tags ,get draws etc do all of us fill them even with our rifles !! I know i am not 100% success on all my draws.

It appears some have the assumption that because a Crossbow season is going to be introduced now that success rate is going to sky rocket or something.

I own firearms and a Compound Bow I have no plans to buy the new guaranteed harvester..,The Compound Bow and I have no qualms over what any other hunter uses Including the Crossbow.
If solicited I will vote YES for the Crossbow but have no plans on lugging one around.

My 2 cents.

[Rackmastr]

Interesting topic for sure!!

As a person who has bowhunted for a very long time I originally would have voted 'no' to allow crossbows in the season. After a bunch of thinking and reading through arguments for the past few years, I'm on the fence and still unsure, but have opened my eyes and opinion at least to make a sound decision.

In the past few weeks I've really considered hanging up the bow and not bowhunting anymore. Would I buy a crossbow if it allowed me to keep hunting in the early season? Possibly...as a new sport I may try it out. Cant say I'm overly interested in the world of crossbows at this time though.

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

how about that....guys who HAVE hunted with them trying to explain from their experience what they can do are being told they are wrong by guys who HAVENT hunted with them. anyone else see that as wierd?

and runner....ive asked this question on here many times and NOONE has given an answer to it yet. wanna try? if a crossbow is such an efficient killer and is way more deadly than a vertical bow, then why is the success rate virtually identical to that of vertical archers everywhere they are allowed?
i havent seen numbers yet where they vary by more than 2% sometimes higher sometimes lower.

and no, i wont be at the shoot, but if i can figure out how to post video will you take the bet?

Probably a lower success rate because they have to hunt in rifle season with their cross bows. Animals act quite different after the banging starts, I find.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

Probably a lower success rate because they have to hunt in rifle season with their cross bows. Animals act quite different after the banging starts, I find.

no mountain guy....you are missing the question. in many places in north america crossbows have been allowed in archery seasons for 30 years and even more. the results are in. this might be a new idea in alberta, but it isnt new across the continent. crossbows have virtually identical success rates to vertical archers. if a crossbow is so much more deadly according to some, then why are success rates the same?

[Dan Boone]

Personally yes,
One step closer to having a primitive weapons season after archery!
How bout this, August 25th to sept 7th, then primitive weapons from sept 7th to sept 16th in the peace region?
And changing the rest of the farmland to the type of hunts occuring around the Cwd area! First 5-6 weeks archery only, then last two weeks of Oct primitive weapons?

I am a bowhunter myself, only ever killing moose and Caribou! But the hunters stating in much earlier posts about how negative an impact a primitive weapons season would be at the end of October are probably changing their minds now, just hoping to hold on to a archery-non draw season.
Too too Funny!

[Mountain Guy]

I'm really trying...but I just cannot understand the logic that a crossbow is no more advantageous than a up&down bow.
Not a xbow guy but aren't they around 100lbs draw weight? Maybe more?
I see that as a HUGE advantage right there.
Heck maybe we should be allowed to de-tune our rifles to spit out a bullet at 350 ft / sec and allow rifles in too...
UNbelievable

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

I'm really trying...but I just cannot understand the logic that a crossbow is no more advantageous than a up&down bow.
Not a xbow guy but aren't they around 100lbs draw weight? Maybe more?
I see that as a HUGE advantage right there.
Heck maybe we should be allowed to de-tune our rifles to spit out a bullet at 350 ft / sec and allow rifles in too...
UNbelievable

ok, i see, you are behind in the understanding of the tool. typical crossbow draw weight is around 150 lbs. because the power stroke is much shorter, and the bolt much heavier, arrow speed are generally in the 300-350 fps range. because the bolt is shorter and heavier, it has much less ballistic coefficient....meaning it drops much faster than a longer lighter arrow which effectively reduces range. so, you have a projectile travelling at about the same speed as one from a vertical bow. my reezen for example is sjooting around 318 fps. with a practical range of around 40 yards the useful hunting range is pretty close for most guys. hmmm....seems like a similar speed and a similar range would explain the similar success rate. but if you have a different explanation as to why stats have been proven the same for 30 plus years id love to hear it. the question is simple....if xbows are so much better, then why dont they kill more?

[Mountain Guy]

MAybe because xbow hunters aren't as skilled as other archers?

[choclab]

Rich how about this,
Keep the archery season the way it is, but if an animal is on draw for rifle make the archery season draw as well. Also make it that you can't apply for both at the same time.

BTW I vote no.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

MAybe because xbow hunters aren't as skilled as other archers?

i whole heartedly believe the first big wave of them to try it when this happens wont be.....and treeguys theory will be proven correct.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I'm a big proponent of everyone waiting the same 5 years I do to draw a mule buck or bull moose in my backyard and that is why I'll vote yes.

If it were on draw for bow and rifle you may start to see bigger animals. Less pressure = more and bigger game.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ram crazy

If it were on draw for bow and rifle you may start to see bigger animals. Less pressure = more and bigger game.

I don't think that Bow harvests contribute enough to effect either!

[duffy4]

I don't believe this will have a huge effect on hunting in Alberta, ether way.

And I don't think there is any need or importance of arguing if a crossbow is more or less effective or easier to use.

I have hunted with a bow, rifle and muzzle loader. I may or may not have a go with a cross bow. I will vote yes.

[Stipa comata]

Originally Posted by SLH

Are you handicapped or something and can't use a bow, if so I apologize for being critical of your position. You do understand that the petty and spiteful comments where meant only if you were an able bodied hunter that could fully utilize the archery season. There are provisions in the hunting regs. for those that can't operate a real bow during an archery season.

Even at that I'd have to reitereate that your position is actually reducing opportunity for all hunters just so you can satisfy your personal handicaps.

If you are not handicapped in some manner than some past comments that you yourself have made about hunter divisiveness seems to only apply to everyone else. Your single arguement for is actually a dangerous precedent in wildlife and hunter management.

I can make the connections here, it likely has very little to do with a handicap. On a search of some posts it appears the original poster has some connection to one of the crossbow manufacturers.

Class act.

[Sharp Stick]

I think a few items need to be cleared up about the draws and archery.

If crossbows are introduced there will be an increased harvest (Im not even going to get into the argument about the effectivness of crossbows vs bows beacuse it doesnt matter), not sure how much but there will be an increase due to more people in the field. In a few zones it is close to going onto draw for archery right now, this will tip the scales and put it on draw. The thing alot of you guys arn't seeing is that archers are given approx 10% of the alllotment right now and general season is 90%. thsi is because archers make up about 10% of the hunters....sooooo.....

If Archery and crossbow are combined that will increase the numbers of "archery" allocations. So now as a rifle hunter you will have to wait longer for a rifle tag!


For arguments sake lets use a number of 30%. If there is an influx of crossbow hunters and now "Archery" tags make up 30% of the total hunters then it will be draw and instead of the rifle guys getting a 90% allotment they will now get 70% of the tags!

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by The Sheep Reaper

I think a few items need to be cleared up about the draws and archery.

If crossbows are introduced there will be an increased harvest (Im not even going to get into the argument about the effectivness of crossbows vs bows beacuse it doesnt matter), not sure how much but there will be an increase due to more people in the field. In a few zones it is close to going onto draw for archery right now, this will tip the scales and put it on draw. The thing alot of you guys arn't seeing is that archers are given approx 10% of the alllotment right now and general season is 90%. thsi is because archers make up about 10% of the hunters....sooooo.....

If Archery and crossbow are combined that will increase the numbers of "archery" allocations. So now as a rifle hunter you will have to wait longer for a rifle tag!


For arguments sake lets use a number of 30%. If there is an influx of crossbow hunters and now "Archery" tags make up 30% of the total hunters then it will be draw and instead of the rifle guys getting a 90% allotment they will now get 70% of the tags!

well i think since compounds are essentially the same in effectiveness as the crossbow that the compound should be kicked out and put in with the general also, recurves/longbows only....this season would then have so few hunters that there likely wouldn't be any draws period....maybe will just go tool by tool, you get 12 weeks for spear hunting, 10 for traditional, 3 for compound, 3 for crossbow, 2 for the shotguns/muzzleloaders, 2 for the rifles or stick all the bows together and all the guns together and have season lengths that suit each?.....i'm guessing from management standpoint the two groups of weapons would be a lot easier to manage effectively? more commonsense approach?

enough sarcasm, i see it as the more bowhunters and bowhunting the better, because its an awesome way to hunt, allot the amount tags to match the numbers, whats wrong with that? they are doing it now as you say, why change that? anyhow, end of day more bowhunters and more bowhunting period is better....this inclusion could help that, i personally could introduce likely 3 people a year to their first deer with a crossbow in my stable of weapons all because of the extra daylight/weeknights/longer seasons/easier weather.....time really, the more time i can get people out the better and a one size fits all bow would really help just for introduction reasons alone! never mind the other opportunities it provides to existing hunters

just sayin

p.s. lol, just saw your avatar....pretty good

[fish_e_o]

Originally Posted by crazyfish

tree thats funny ! but you forgot hat due to no resale market demand 80% of those crossbows were found gathering dust in sheds and garages across the province !

which due to vey light demand for archery draw tags , all archers will enjoy easy access to tags !

that's were mine sits...

not as good as a bow, just a stupid fad.

i will be voting no. so many people will be wounding animals, confusing the system and for what for a fad? if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by fish_e_o

not as good as a bow, just a stupid fad.

Lol, Exactly! After the initial surge it will settle down and the people who can utilize it will have them and use them, the rest will be collecting dust, they have a place, they increase opportunity, years from now we will ALL laugh about this entire rediculous argument

[ghglenn]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

The same range, Are you for real? Wake up sunshine. Let me know how tired you are after holding your bow at full draw for 5 min. Oh ya you couldnt do it. Now lets see lets hold your crossbow at 5 min cocked and loaded with your scope on it, Its a no brainer might as well have a gun in your hand. What a joke!!

5 minutes....You have never held a crossbow up, while sighting through the scope, lol. I hunt with a Bowtech Patriot compound and an Excalibur Ibex crossbow. Both are equally difficult to use, for different reasons. They belong in the same season because the method of hunting with said weapon/tool is the same. My 300 Win Mag does not belong in Crossbow Season. I vote YES.

BTW, I was introduced to bow hunting through the use of a crossbow first...It is a fun weapon to use, but I like my compound bow.

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by ghglenn

5 minutes....You have never held a crossbow up, while sighting through the scope, lol. I hunt with a Bowtech Patriot compound and an Excalibur Ibex crossbow. Both are equally difficult to use, for different reasons. They belong in the same season because the method of hunting with said weapon/tool is the same. My 300 Win Mag does not belong in Crossbow Season. I vote YES.

BTW, I was introduced to bow hunting through the use of a crossbow first...It is a fun weapon to use, but I like my compound bow.

right on! and what a tool to get people started into bowhunting!

[Stipa comata]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

Lol, Exactly! After the initial surge it will settle down and the people who can utilize it will have them and use them, the rest will be collecting dust, they have a place, they increase opportunity, years from now we will ALL laugh about this entire rediculous argument

They don't increase opportunity. Opportunity to hunt exists now.

If this is so ridiculous it seems there seems to be a contingent very passionate for seeing it come to fruition.

The one point resonating in my mind is the mini "boom" of crossbow sales that some suggest - it may be lucrative for a few. Might also be lucrative for those who rely on crossbow sponsorship or those who might like to become the "Jim Shockey" of the crossbow.

[whitetail Junkie]

I'll be Voting YES along with most of my Family,And i've said before that Archery Muledeer in Alberta should be on Draw,to better manage the species .

[Rob Miskosky]

Just some quick information for those who have yet to receive the Hunter Harvest Survey. Anybody who is registered at Alberta Relm that hunted in 2010 will receive the survey. The Surveys go out in batches so that they aren't tagged as spam (some may be anyway) and also because of limits. As of this morning, 16,000 Surveys have been sent out via email. By the end of this weekend it is expected that the Survey emailing process will be completed. A total of 56,000 will be sent out.

[BigJon]

I hunt with a compound and cannot forsee myself making a switch to a crossbow, they're big, clunky, expensive and I just think a compound is nicer shooting and more fun to shoot. I have shot both, although haven't shot a crossbow nearly as much as a compound bow. A horton xbow that I shot was easier to group tighter at 40 yards than my compound but we're not talking about a difference of kill/no kill. They are easier to become proficient with but I think that is negligible. I know of ~ 1/2 dozen folks who have gone into an archery shop to buy a compound and came out a few hours later with a tuned up, ready to hunt bow and the ability to make kill shots at 20-30 yards. This almost seems standard when buying a bow from a reputable shop. Irresponsible people are going to be irresponsible no matter what's in their hands.

Yes from me.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

in many places in north america crossbows have been allowed in archery seasons for 30 years and even more. the results are in.

good point. We can argue and guess about the possible effects all we want, but there are jurisdictions we (and SRD) can look at to see the long-term true impact. Makes a lot of sense to research that.

[Okotokian]

Wow, JUST recieved and completed my survey.... one thing that hasn't been pointed out here is that besides "yes" and "no" options, there is also a "neutral" choice. To be honest that last choice might actually capture the views of most with no dog in the fight.

Originally Posted by Stipa comata

They don't increase opportunity. Opportunity to hunt exists now.

If this is so ridiculous it seems there seems to be a contingent very passionate for seeing it come to fruition.

The one point resonating in my mind is the mini "boom" of crossbow sales that some suggest - it may be lucrative for a few. Might also be lucrative for those who rely on crossbow sponsorship or those who might like to become the "Jim Shockey" of the crossbow.

What is this, your 50th profile on here? It's too bad your only purpose on this board is to be a troll. You really put an end to some productive discussions with your multiple and "new" profiles. How many times have you been banned already...20, 30? Like the grass that shares your name, you serve no real purpose and are hard to get rid of.....this quite possibly is your most appropriate name so far.

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Wow, JUST recieved and completed my survey.... one thing that hasn't been pointed out here is that besides "yes" and "no" options, there is also a "neutral" choice. To be honest that last choice might actually capture the views of most with no dog in the fight.

LOL, I pointed it out in post 69.

I have to admit that that's where my check mark might go too. I'm not sure where I stand on the issue. I don't buy into any of the crap about them being a great poaching weapon, that they are more effective than a compound or that success rates would be higher with them and I also don't really think the loss of opportunity arguement holds any water. If they belong, then vertical bowhunters should share. If they don't belong, then end of discussion. To me the loss of opportunity is a lost leader in this whole issue and unintentionally I'm sure, painted many bowhunters in a bad light. To me, the only issue is whether a crossbow is archery gear or not and all the rest is just rhetoric that has detracted from the core issue. The fact that a crossbow is mechanically held at draw may indeed be enough to exclude it as archery tackle in my mind. I'm just not sure.

[arcticgrayling]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

What is this, your 50th profile on here? It's too bad your only purpose on this board is to be a troll. You really put an end to some productive discussions with your multiple and "new" profiles. How many times have you been banned already...20, 30? Like the grass that shares your name, you serve no real purpose and are hard to get rid of.....this quite possibly is your most appropriate name so far.

X2