Number of Guide/Outfitter Tags Issued

[heretohunt]

I'm with lefty on the priority points system. There are a ton of guys that will 999 certain hunts until they are too old or no longer have the ability to take the draw. They will retire from the hunting game with a lots of priority points in the bank. I'm ok with that

My concern with outfitter allocations is that they haven't been reduced at the same rate as resident tags. WMU 410 trophy sheep still has 5 outfitter tags and resident tags have been reduced to 30. Hmmmm😕I can't say that I know for sure but I would suspect the 5 outfitter tags account for most of the success in that zone. They have hunted there every year and know the ins and outs. They are also a lot more "competitive" than the resident hunters. In fact the biggest challenge that you will face in certain parts of 410 will be "sharing" with the outfitter.
Mule deer in the north country has the same issues only because the country is bigger they are less noticeable.

[35 whelen]

Emailed apos on sat asked for all outfitters allocations in Alberta, got them today no problem.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by GFY

How about land owners can't hunt there own land? Sounds just as ridiculous as your statement . Get over yourself already .

The suggestion was in response to the statement that landowners should only get antlerless tags only if they can prove they let Joe Public hunt on their land

I think you missed the sarcasm!!!

What many of you need to get over is the perceived sense of social injustice that I may actually get to shoot a few more mule bucks on my own land in my lifetime than you will get to shoot on my land.

Nothing stopping you from purchasing land and becoming a landowner yourself,,, oh wait, but you can't afford to that,,, so lets just get rid of landowner mule buck tags cuz you don't think it's fair.

Yep,,, but also ask yourself,,,, it is really fair,,,, that I as landowner who willingly provides the habitat and the forage that sustains larger numbers of ungulates and other wildlife that would otherwise not be there at all if I got rid of all game attracting habitat on my farm,,, have to compete for the same tag as some faceless stranger who lives hours away becuz he feels he owns the deer on my land as much as I do, yet he doesn't pay one cent of rent or child support to the deer's landlord???

Most jurisdictions in North America allow landowners to be compensated in some manner (mostly in the form of some sort of paid hunting access) for providing habitat for wildlife on their land. Other than a few landowner tags (which have no financial benefit) to harvest a mule buck or doe, or an antlerless elk, landowners in Alberta have no other means for legal compensation. That is pretty small price for general Joe Hunter to pay compared to what most other jurisdictions are doing.

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

The suggestion was in response to the statement that landowners should only get antlerless tags only if they can prove they let Joe Public hunt on their land

I think you missed the sarcasm!!!

What many of you need to get over is the perceived sense of social injustice that I may actually get to shoot a few more mule bucks on my own land in my lifetime than you will get to shoot on my land.

Nothing stopping you from purchasing land and becoming a landowner yourself,,, oh wait, but you can't afford to that,,, so lets just get rid of landowner mule buck tags cuz you don't think it's fair.

Yep,,, but also ask yourself,,,, it is really fair,,,, that I as landowner who willingly provides the habitat and the forage that sustains larger numbers of ungulates and other wildlife that would otherwise not be there at all if I got rid of all game attracting habitat on my farm,,, have to compete for the same tag as some faceless stranger who lives hours away becuz he feels he owns the deer on my land as much as I do, yet he doesn't pay one cent of rent or child support to the deer's landlord???

Most jurisdictions in North America allow landowners to be compensated in some manner (mostly in the form of some sort of paid hunting access) for providing habitat for wildlife on their land. Other than a few landowner tags (which have no financial benefit) to harvest a mule buck or doe, or an antlerless elk, landowners in Alberta have no other means for legal compensation. That is pretty small price for general Joe Hunter to pay compared to what most other jurisdictions are doing.

You may have good intentions with your Antlered Mule deer tag, but others out there do not.

I could spend $120,000 on 20 Acres out by Milk river, grow nothing but Alfalfa and Imperial Deer food, then get a landowners Antlered Mule deer license and shoot a big one every year.

If the intention is to stop deer from eating ruling your crops then may 2-3 Antleress tags would suffice? There is no reason to have a Antlered tag for Mule deer for landowners. Especially since it seems to be the overwhelming choice over the Antlerless tag.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

I'm with lefty on the priority points system. There are a ton of guys that will 999 certain hunts until they are too old or no longer have the ability to take the draw. They will retire from the hunting game with a lots of priority points in the bank. I'm ok with that

How about not applying if you don't want the tag that year?

Initially the 999 option did reduce the draw times as 999 hunters do effectively remove themselves from the draw for that year but the 999 option encourages greater numbers of applicants through "shotgun applications" for several species and priority building / hoarding. There are more overall participants in the draws building priority becuz of the 999 option. As the use of the 999 option increases so does the pool of potentially higher priority applicants that will eventually come into the draw .

Hunting draws are subject to the laws of supply and demand. OPEC can stockpile their oil supply in an attempt to keep the price up, but eventually that oil has to come to market sometime and the price will invariably crash.

Many of you guys are focussing only on the supply side of the equation when you fixate on non res and landowner tags,,, demand is the other half of the equation that needs to be addressed as well.

[GFY]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

The suggestion was in response to the statement that landowners should only get antlerless tags only if they can prove they let Joe Public hunt on their land

I think you missed the sarcasm!!!

What many of you need to get over is the perceived sense of social injustice that I may actually get to shoot a few more mule bucks on my own land in my lifetime than you will get to shoot on my land.

Nothing stopping you from purchasing land and becoming a landowner yourself,,, oh wait, but you can't afford to that,,, so lets just get rid of landowner mule buck tags cuz you don't think it's fair.

Yep,,, but also ask yourself,,,, it is really fair,,,, that I as landowner who willingly provides the habitat and the forage that sustains larger numbers of ungulates and other wildlife that would otherwise not be there at all if I got rid of all game attracting habitat on my farm,,, have to compete for the same tag as some faceless stranger who lives hours away becuz he feels he owns the deer on my land as much as I do, yet he doesn't pay one cent of rent or child support to the deer's landlord???

Most jurisdictions in North America allow landowners to be compensated in some manner (mostly in the form of some sort of paid hunting access) for providing habitat for wildlife on their land. Other than a few landowner tags (which have no financial benefit) to harvest a mule buck or doe, or an antlerless elk, landowners in Alberta have no other means for legal compensation. That is pretty small price for general Joe Hunter to pay compared to what most other jurisdictions are doing.

Who says I can't afford it ? Who says I don't own a quarter ?I have stated that hunting should not be a rich man sport. Not everybody has money to burn. You state about other jurisdictions in north America . But there is no other jurisdiction in Canada that gives landowners tags . So again who give s sh!t what Americans do . They have to pay to hunt to . I bet you are pushing for that as well aren't you as all farmers are poor? I will make sure that all landowner tags get taken so people like you will wait your turn like everybody else . I am also going to try and get the old rule brought back if you post your land you can't hunt it either .

[rednuck]

Originally Posted by GFY

I will make sure that all landowner tags get taken so people like you will wait your turn like everybody else .

Will you do the same for bowhunters? why should they get to shoot a mule deer buck every year when you can't.

[GFY]

Originally Posted by rednuck

Will you do the same for bowhunters? why should they get to shoot a mule deer buck every year when you can't.

Go buy a bow . Everybody is on the same playing field there . I am sick of hearing how bow hunters kill all the big deer . Not true at all. I will be making sure archery draws come out as it was promised to come out when the new system did . Another screw up for the ABA .

[rednuck]

Originally Posted by GFY

Go buy a bow . Everybody is on the same playing field there . I am sick of hearing how bow hunters kill all the big deer . Not true at all. I will be making sure archery draws come out as it was promised to come out when the new system did . Another screw up for the ABA .

Go buy some land, everyone is on the same playing field there. I am sick of hearing how landowners kill all the big deer, not true at all.

[Pikebreath]

Many 999 users hoard their priority to take advantage of newly opened seasons in new zones effectively jumping ahead of many local hunters who did not apply and build priority for that draw becuz there had not been a season for that species in their zone.

Case in point, the expanding elk populations across the prairie and parkland zones has created several new seasons in recent years but few locals are able to participate for several years becuz they haven't built priority.

Further to that,, in time,''priority builders / hoarders can effectively jump ahead of those hunters who do not use the 999 option and do not apply in the years they do not want a tag for that species. Priority building comes in especially handy when tag numbers are reduced as the priority hoarders can pretty much guarantee themselves a tag now. Do this for enough different draws and the priority builders can effectively pull a special licence draw of some sort most every year.

Yes,,, 999 allows hunters to manage their draws and pull tags at their convenience and avoid pulling multiple tags in any one year,,, which is a good thing for those who use the 999 , but not every one uses the 999 option just to build priority for multiple species and draws.

[elkhunter11]

Initially the 999 option did reduce the draw times as 999 hunters do effectively remove themselves from the draw for that year but the 999 option encourages greater numbers of applicants through "shotgun applications" for several species and priority building / hoarding. There are more overall participants in the draws building priority becuz of the 999 option. As the use of the 999 option increases so does the pool of potentially higher priority applicants that will eventually come into the draw .

Before the 999 application was an option, most of us simply applied with someone that we knew didn't have enough priority to draw the tag. It took a little more effort, but the results were the same.

Many 999 users hoard their priority to take advantage of newly opened seasons in new zones effectively jumping ahead of many local hunters who did not apply and build priority for that draw becuz there had not been a season for that species in their zone.

Case in point, the expanding elk populations across the prairie and parkland zones has created several new seasons in recent years but few locals are able to participate for several years becuz they haven't built priority.

Further to that,, in time,''priority builders / hoarders can effectively jump ahead of those hunters who do not use the 999 option and do not apply in the years they do not want a tag for that species. Priority building comes in especially handy when tag numbers are reduced as the priority hoarders can pretty much guarantee themselves a tag now. Do this for enough different draws and the priority builders can effectively pull a special licence draw of some sort most every year.

Yes,,, 999 allows hunters to manage their draws and pull tags at their convenience and avoid pulling multiple tags in any one year,,, which is a good thing for those who use the 999 , but not every one uses the 999 option just to build priority for multiple species and draws.

And just what is stopping the people that chose not to use the 999 option from using it? They can pay their $4 and build priority just as easy as the rest of us. If they are too cheap to pay the $4, or they don't have the fore thought to plan ahead, too bad for them.

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by rednuck

Will you do the same for bowhunters? why should they get to shoot a mule deer buck every year when you can't.

The prarie zones are all on draw for Antlered Mule deer, the cry babies made sure of that.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by GFY

Who says I can't afford it ? Who says I don't own a quarter ?I have stated that hunting should not be a rich man sport. Not everybody has money to burn. You state about other jurisdictions in north America . But there is no other jurisdiction in Canada that gives landowners tags . So again who give s sh!t what Americans do . They have to pay to hunt to . I bet you are pushing for that as well aren't you as all farmers are poor? I will make sure that all landowner tags get taken so people like you will wait your turn like everybody else . I am also going to try and get the old rule brought back if you post your land you can't hunt it either .

Why don't you post your own name?, that way your hate for land owners will only get you denied access and not everyone they don't personally know...

[GFY]

Originally Posted by rednuck

Go buy some land, everyone is on the same playing field there. I am sick of hearing how landowners kill all the big deer, not true at all.

Lol . They don't . If they do it is not on there land. I hve bought land and will never use the tag. Ain't fair to everybody else . Why is it e ery other province does not have these tags? No complaining there either .

[rednuck]

Originally Posted by deerguy

The prarie zones are all on draw for Antlered Mule deer, the cry babies made sure of that.

There are still 20 in the 100's where this is not the case(this year at least).

[GFY]

Originally Posted by hal53

Why don't you post your own name?, that way your hate for land owners will only get you denied access and not everyone they don't personally know...

Lol . Why is it things were just fine before the changes and landower tags? Everybody is just worried about what they can get. I want to see hunting for everybody and the kids like it use to be . Now it is all about greed .

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by GFY

Who says I can't afford it ? Who says I don't own a quarter ?I have stated that hunting should not be a rich man sport. Not everybody has money to burn. You state about other jurisdictions in north America . But there is no other jurisdiction in Canada that gives landowners tags . So again who give s sh!t what Americans do . They have to pay to hunt to . I bet you are pushing for that as well aren't you as all farmers are poor? I will make sure that all landowner tags get taken so people like you will wait your turn like everybody else . I am also going to try and get the old rule brought back if you post your land you can't hunt it either .

Like it not, landowners hold the keys to the playground,,, and anti-landowner sentiment will most certainly close more gates and open the possibility to paid hunting as the solution to those locked gates.

I do not want see paid hunting in this province any more than you do,,,, but I do see a need for distinction in allocation priority when it comes to "residency status". We currently make distinctions between non res alien, non resident, resident and resident landowners when it comes to allocations.

Yes we need to examine those allocations as to how they are distributed, but to completely eliminate allocations just becuz it doesn't seem fair from your personal perspective, without considering the implications and future possible ramifications is hardly wise.

Is a handful of mule deer buck tags really worth all this spiteful rhetoric?

[flyguyd]

Originally Posted by deerguy

You may have good intentions with your Antlered Mule deer tag, but others out there do not.

I could spend $120,000 on 20 Acres out by Milk river, grow nothing but Alfalfa and Imperial Deer food, then get a landowners Antlered Mule deer license and shoot a big one every year.

If the intention is to stop deer from eating ruling your crops then may 2-3 Antleress tags would suffice? There is no reason to have a Antlered tag for Mule deer for landowners. Especially since it seems to be the overwhelming choice over the Antlerless tag.

Not unless you add about 140 acres to that little parcel you wont

[hal53]

Originally Posted by GFY

Lol . Why is it things were just fine before the changes and landower tags? Everybody is just worried about what they can get. I want to see hunting for everybody and the kids like it use to be . Now it is all about greed .

Yup, you're right, pretty sad that some greedy people are ticked off that land owners get to hunt their own land.....

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by GFY

Lol . Why is it things were just fine before the changes and landower tags? Everybody is just worried about what they can get. I want to see hunting for everybody and the kids like it use to be . Now it is all about greed .

BTW, before we had mule bucks on a draw and landowner tags, we had the 3 point rule, which if you are old enough to remember was the epitome of mule deer mismanagement in this province.

[GFY]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Like it not, landowners hold the keys to the playground,,, and anti-landowner sentiment will most certainly close more gates and open the possibility to paid hunting as the solution to those locked gates.

I do not want see paid hunting in this province any more than you do,,,, but I do see a need for distinction in allocation priority when it comes to "residency status". We currently make distinctions between non res alien, non resident, resident and resident landowners when it comes to allocations.

Yes we need to examine those allocations as to how they are distributed, but to completely eliminate allocations just becuz it doesn't seem fair from your personal perspective, without considering the implications and future possible ramifications is hardly wise.

Is a handful of mule deer buck tags really worth all this spiteful rhetoric?

exactly . If landowners loose them antlered tags is it just that big of a deal. Exactly no it ain't for 90% of landowners .

Originally Posted by hal53

Yup, you're right, pretty sad that some greedy people are ticked off that land owners get to hunt their own land.....

hunt all you want . Lock it down . I don't care As long as you have to wait in line like everybody else

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

BTW, before we had mule bucks on a draw and landowner tags, we had the 3 point rule, which if you are old enough to remember was the epitome of mule deer mismanagement in this province.

Yes I do remember that and I agree that was missmanagmebt for bucks but again it was not about the greed of big horns like it is today. It was about hunting for meat for the freezer . Two totally different things .

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by hal53

Yup, you're right, pretty sad that some greedy people are ticked off that land owners get to hunt their own land.....

Not at all. But they shouldn't be able to hunt the more desirables ( antlered mule deer) EVERY year. I'd be happy to give them 3 antlerless mule deer landowner tags. Not a problem.
I would even agree to 2 priority points for every draw year on antlered MD.
Some zones the LO could hunt every other year. Some zones every 4.

EVERY year for high priority draws is too much.

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by flyguyd

Not unless you add about 140 acres to that little parcel you wont

I need 160 acres of deer plot to grow a big deer?

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by GFY

Lol . They don't . If they do it is not on there land. I hve bought land and will never use the tag. Ain't fair to everybody else . Why is it e ery other province does not have these tags? No complaining there either .

Yes but most provinces allow some kind of trespass or access fee to be charged if so desired by the landowner.

Saskatchewan is the expectation, but Saskatchewan does allow paid high fence hunt farm hunting of big game,,,

And hunting big game over bait,,,

And an orange and / or white requirement during rifle season,,,

And a preference for family members for Non Res Canadian whitetail tags,,,

And a priority system with limited priority,,,

And generally shorter big game seasons,,,

And more wide spread CWD,,,

And things like earn a buck programs where you have to shoot mule does first to be able to shoot a mule buck,,,

And no afternoon hunting of grey geese until after Oct 15,,,,

Yep,,, things are so done so much better and fairer in Saskatchewan!!!

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Yes but most provinces allow some kind of trespass or access fee to be charged if so desired by the landowner.

Saskatchewan is the expectation, but Saskatchewan does allow paid high fence hunt farm hunting of big game,,,

And hunting big game over bait,,,

And an orange and / or white requirement during rifle season,,,

And a preference for family members for Non Res Canadian whitetail tags,,,

And a priority system with limited priority,,,

And generally shorter big game seasons,,,

And more wide spread CWD,,,

And things like earn a buck programs where you have to shoot mule does first to be able to shoot a mule buck,,,

And no afternoon hunting of grey geese until after Oct 15,,,,

Yep,,, things are so done so much better and fairer in Saskatchewan!!!

Yes they are. Can we not pick the good, and not the bad???

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by huntwat

I would even agree to 2 priority points for every draw year on antlered MD.
Some zones the LO could hunt every other year. Some zones every 4.

EVERY year for high priority draws is too much.

That is the first reasonable suggestion for changes to antlered mule deer landowner allocations I have read in this thread.

Would you be okay with applying that to all draws?

On that vein, how about allowing non landowning residents the opportunity to get a one time, one priority point bump if they live in the zone, or have landowning family members / friends living in that zone willing to transfer that priority point bump to them?

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

That is the first reasonable suggestion for changes to antlered mule deer landowner allocations I have read in this thread.

Would you be okay with applying that to all draws?

On that vein, how about allowing non landowning residents the opportunity to get a one time, one priority point bump if they live in the zone, or have landowning family members / friends living in that zone willing to transfer that priority point bump to them?

No and No.
That being said, priority points should be able to be handed over or inherited by immediate family.

[deerguy]

Originally Posted by huntwat

No and No.
That being said, priority points should be able to be handed over or inherited by immediate family.

You telling me my non hunting family should be able to build priority point then give them to me?

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by deerguy

You telling me my non hunting family should be able to build priority point then give them to me?

If they have their wincard are they considered non- hunters???

[hal53]

Originally Posted by huntwat

If they have their wincard are they considered non- hunters???

Every person in the province that fishes has a WIN