Five reasons to BAN Spears and Atlatls

[Pudelpointer]

I am going to bump this in the hope that AA's Atlatl thread doesn't get sidetracked. However, as I reviewed the last page if this thread, it seems to have been hijacked as well.

Here is hoping that it can get back on track.



In my last post on AA's thread I stated that primitive weapons do not need regulation. I stand by that.

Legislating them is a waste of time; much as legislating what a "authorized arrow" is for big game hunting. The law says that. An authorized arrow has a minimum length (iirc.... 25" or something) and a cutting point of at least 7/8" and cannot be designed to resist extraction. Okay, I can agree with the last part, however the rest is kind of silly in a way. Nothing in the regulation stated that the cutting edge must be sharp, much in the same way that nothing is mentioned about bullet construction. There is nothing illegal about shooting a moose with a 75 gr Vmax out of a .243.

As others have pointed out on this thread and others, the "legal minimums" are based on ethics. I believe that the vast majority of all hunters are looking to make a clean, quick kill. Yes some people use inappropriate bullets, yes some people use dull broadheads. Hopefully they educate themselves and make better choices, but regulating these things is a waste of time.

If someone chooses to limit themselves by hunting with a spear or atlatl they are unlikely to make a broadhead choice that is not effective, or choose a dart that is too light to penetrate, or.... whatever else you could possibly regulate around their use.

If you are wondering why I am hung up on this, it is because I am afraid it won't stop with setting minimums.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Pudelpointer

I am going to bump this in the hope that AA's Atlatl thread doesn't get sidetracked. However, as I reviewed the last page if this thread, it seems to have been hijacked as well.

Here is hoping that it can get back on track.



In my last post on AA's thread I stated that primitive weapons do not need regulation. I stand by that.

Legislating them is a waste of time; much as legislating what a "authorized arrow" is for big game hunting. The law says that. An authorized arrow has a minimum length (iirc.... 25" or something) and a cutting point of at least 7/8" and cannot be designed to resist extraction. Okay, I can agree with the last part, however the rest is kind of silly in a way. Nothing in the regulation stated that the cutting edge must be sharp, much in the same way that nothing is mentioned about bullet construction. There is nothing illegal about shooting a moose with a 75 gr Vmax out of a .243.

As others have pointed out on this thread and others, the "legal minimums" are based on ethics. I believe that the vast majority of all hunters are looking to make a clean, quick kill. Yes some people use inappropriate bullets, yes some people use dull broadheads. Hopefully they educate themselves and make better choices, but regulating these things is a waste of time.

If someone chooses to limit themselves by hunting with a spear or atlatl they are unlikely to make a broadhead choice that is not effective, or choose a dart that is too light to penetrate, or.... whatever else you could possibly regulate around their use.

If you are wondering why I am hung up on this, it is because I am afraid it won't stop with setting minimums.

X2 Next thing you know we will all have to use one off these.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...62788935,d.cGU

[abhunter8]

Wow, this really pi$$es me off that the ABA would throw another group under the bus to further their cause! Why not spend that effort promoting themselves and the sport of hunting!!

[Bassett]

People wound enough animals with guns let alone spears. Most guys probably don't want them because they can't throw it from their truck.

[kirbstomps]

if this goes through, bow hunting is next....

[HunterDave]

I find it funny that by proposing a ban on these weapons the ABA actually promoted the use of them. Like many people that I've seen posting, I'd never heard of an atlatl before and now I'm reading posts from people that want to make and try them. Well done ABA!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by kirbstomps

if this goes through, bow hunting is next....

It's a bowhunting organization, the ABA, that wants the ban. Funny eh?

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

It's a bowhunting organization, the ABA, that wants the ban. Funny eh?

As I posted in the other thread, im pretty sure its a certain few executive members rather than the entire club that proposed the ban...

[460ford]

Pretty sad on Brent watsons and the ABA part. I talked to Ian Stuart concerning archery mule deer going to draw. He couldn't wrap his head around the fact that opportunity loss of any kind is bad.

[Tox]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcbride View Post
From what you are saying we should all be using one of these.
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...62788935,d.cGU

That's too cool. And with no rules against using drones the only thing we legally have to do is get out of the truck.
__________________
Some people without a brain do an awful lot of talking, don't they? - scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by abhunter8

Wow, this really pi$$es me off that the ABA would throw another group under the bus to further their cause! Why not spend that effort promoting themselves and the sport of hunting!!

Exactly...stay united not divided!

[Pathfinder76]

The ABA are sitting in a glass house throwing stones.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by chuck

The ABA are sitting in a glass house throwing stones.

I think they are using catapults and ballistas

LC

[stemorholake]

Originally Posted by North of Owlseye

"Reasons" 1, 2 and 4 are not reasons, they are not arguments, they are absurd.
1. Few use them - so what? Hardly a justification for banning them.
2. They are primitive - so it the logic that says this is a 'reason' for banning them.
4. Hard to justify their use to non hunters - no one cares. Its hard to justify any hunting or hunting weapon to non hunters.

Absolutely right...if spears are so primitive then bows must be also!!! And about non hunters...they hate us anyways so yes who cares...if you want to spear. Have at it!!

[mikhughe]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Some people spear bears.

LC

Not something I would want to do ever. I can just imagine a big, angry mean bear with a spear sticking out of it and it's coming for you.

[Pudelpointer]

Originally Posted by mikhughe

Not something I would want to do ever. I can just imagine a big, angry mean bear with a spear sticking out of it and it's coming for you.

Then don't. Your choice.

[calgarychef]

Ok, you've got a carbon arrow weighing 500 grains with your latest whiz bang broad head that's the legal 7/8 width, or chuck a three pound spear with a blade a couple of inches wide and a foot long which is going to kill the bear faster?

The answer is they both kill the bear.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by mikhughe

Not something I would want to do ever. I can just imagine a big, angry mean bear with a spear sticking out of it and it's coming for you.

It would sure separate the men from the boys in a hurry.

Maybe it ought to be mandatory that before a person can own one of those cannons without wheels they must first kill a bear with a spear.


Kidding!

Hey look, it's just a fad. A flash in the pan. Who wants to go one on one with a bear anyway? What would be the point?
About all that would accomplish is it'd thin out the wacko population.

Hey, maybe it a good idea! We should promote spear hunting!

As for me, I don't need to kill anything to prove that I'm a man. In fact I don't need to prove I'm a man to anyone except me. And I know what I am.

And I'm with you, there is no way I'd go against a bear with nothing but a spear. I'm not too fond of pain.

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It would sure separate the men from the boys in a hurry.

Maybe it ought to be mandatory that before a person can own one of those cannons without wheels they must first kill a bear with a spear.


Kidding!

Hey look, it's just a fad. A flash in the pan. Who wants to go one on one with a bear anyway? What would be the point?
About all that would accomplish is it'd thin out the wacko population.

Hey, maybe it a good idea! We should promote spear hunting!

As for me, I don't need to kill anything to prove that I'm a man. In fact I don't need to prove I'm a man to anyone except me. And I know what I am.

And I'm with you, there is no way I'd go against a bear with nothing but a spear. I'm not too fond of pain.

wow , another useful post showing someone knows nothing about what they are commenting on. I would rather use a spear, then hunt a bear from a tree stand when it runs up the tree at me. this type of hunting has been proven way longer then the rifle has been around. is a rifle safer ? or more convenient? ...no worries its a fad

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by mikhughe

Not something I would want to do ever. I can just imagine a big, angry mean bear with a spear sticking out of it and it's coming for you.

They actually hunt them from a tree stand and drop the spear into the bear from above.

LC

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

They actually hunt them from a tree stand and drop the spear into the bear from above.

LC

some do , far from all

[Tox]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Ok, you've got a carbon arrow weighing 500 grains with your latest whiz bang broad head that's the legal 7/8 width, or chuck a three pound spear with a blade a couple of inches wide and a foot long which is going to kill the bear faster?

The answer is they both kill the bear.

This is where I have an issue with this. I am not against the use of these tools but as the regs. are written you can hunt with a bow with a min. draw weight. An arrow of minimum length, and a broad head of minimum width.
There is nothing written to say atlatl's and spears are illegal, nothing. So as I understand it, I can sharpen a stick and call it a spear? Is an atlatl considered a spear? an arrow? Dart? Can I use a legal arrow and broad head in conjunction with my slingshot?
On another note I agree to some extent that the image we as hunters portray is very important. Some may not care what others think but I for one do not prefer to be thought of as a barbarian by anti-hunters, fence sitters or to a lesser extent other hunters. JMHO

[Boots270]

It seems a fair amount of people have not read through this thread nor researched in any way. AA's atlatl has about equal specs to my 53# longbow.
It's not just chucking a pointy stick like we did as kids. It's a forceful killing tool.

No one can please all the people.
It's not humanly possible.
So stop letting anti's sway your mind.

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Tox

This is where I have an issue with this. I am not against the use of these tools but as the regs. are written you can hunt with a bow with a min. draw weight. An arrow of minimum length, and a broad head of minimum width.
There is nothing written to say atlatl's and spears are illegal, nothing. So as I understand it, I can sharpen a stick and call it a spear? Is an atlatl considered a spear? an arrow? Dart? Can I use a legal arrow and broad head in conjunction with my slingshot?
On another note I agree to some extent that the image we as hunters portray is very important. Some may not care what others think but I for one do not prefer to be thought of as a barbarian by anti-hunters, fence sitters or to a lesser extent other hunters. JMHO

Some anti's think that hunting is barbarian no matter which weapon is used. Some anti's think rifle hunting is barbarian because it doesn't give the animal a chance. Some anti's think that bows are barbarian because there are better way's to kill an animal. And so on, and so on. We will never be able to please everybody. But, once we try to please one group the other groups will want the same. We as hunters should be supporting each others hunting methods as your hunting method could be next on the chopping block.

[Tox]

I don't discredit AA findings/specs. Based on his pictures and story I would say it was an effective tool. BUT, what's to say someone doesn't just use a pointy stick. We believe any hunter/outdoorsman would do the "ethical" or right thing but some amazing things happen out in the woods.
Do I care what the anti's think? NO. Should I? Probably. I don't believe you can defend against them if you ignore them. The only group you stand a chance with is the fence sitters that haven't decided yet.

[bhguy]

Originally Posted by Tox

I don't discredit AA findings/specs. Based on his pictures and story I would say it was an effective tool. BUT, what's to say someone doesn't just use a pointy stick. We believe any hunter/outdoorsman would do the "ethical" or right thing but some amazing things happen out in the woods.
Do I care what the anti's think? NO. Should I? Probably. I don't believe you can defend against them if you ignore them. The only group you stand a chance with is the fence sitters that haven't decided yet.

I don't disagree with what your saying in some points...why do have to live in fear of anti's. maybe if we all grew a pair instead of hiding on forums (not meant at you!!) then life would be a lot easier and the dark looming cloud that WE put on ourselves would be gone.

if I were never on here I would say, there is little to no resistance to hunting.i have really never ran into any real life issues, the odd debate, which is always encouraged. there is the old saying if you look for it you will find it, how much of this anti stuff is fueled by our own fears vs reality?

[Tox]

Originally Posted by abhunter8

Wow, this really pi$$es me off that the ABA would throw another group under the bus to further their cause! Why not spend that effort promoting themselves and the sport of hunting!!

Really, The ABA defends against crossbows invading archery seasons, muzzleloaders taking part of the archery season and so on. Every year. It seams they have no problem thowing bowhunters under the bus while the ABA is promoting bowhunting and the sport of archery.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by bhguy

some do , far from all

Didn't realize I was speaking in absolutes

LC

[Boots270]

Well stated bh and mcbride.

But Tox!!....I'm afraid you are not comprehending what is being said.
Pointed sticks????
I'm not even going to get into it.
You have a touch of anti in your comments. Or unfounded fears and disillusionment.

As stated.....get out and hunt and enjoy it.
Others will follow. Leave the others behind.

I'm going to go shoot some arrows at my defenseless target now. Poor thing

[The Spruce]

Well, ABA no more for me. Any hunting/outdoors group that singles out another will never get support from me. Arrows cause alot of lost animals every hunting season, this is the wrong group too point fingers. It is truely a sad day when we publicly attack one another at the highest levels. This will also leave me to truely question anyone that agrees with and supports the ideals of this group.

Spruce