Possible Causes of Horizontal Stringing

[6.5 shooter]

Just a thought here but if the front sling stud is in the rifle try removing it so the rifle can recoil freely with out hitting the front bag.

Just as a note, I was at the range a couple years ago shooting beside a guy who had a ton of money invested in a rifle and he was complaining that the rifle always would shoot two rounds nearly into the same hole but one round would always be outside of the group. So I sat back and watched him shoot his rifle ..... He would fire the rifle but would leave his sling on and use it as a hand hold, when he would fire the rifle on most shots he would have a fairly loose grip on the sling but, when he would bear down for his third shot he would pull down really hard on the sling causing the rifle to throw that shot.

I pointed this out to him and he stopped using the sling and his groups improved dramatically ....... just a thought!

I shot beside him last night and the same rifle is shooting one inch groups at 300 yds. So might want to have a buddy watch you to see how you shoot the rifle and if your making a small but similar mistake.

[NoKlu]

The OP has a buddy he takes shooting and they are both getting the same results with the rifle.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by NoKlu

The OP has a buddy he takes shooting and they are both getting the same results with the rifle.

And they are both using the bag right under the scope?
There is a whole lot of potential for horizontal stringing when the forward rest is that far back.
Cat

[densa44]

How good is your own ammo? Are the groups tighter? If so you may have more than one variable.

I admire your persistence.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by densa44

How good is your own ammo? Are the groups tighter? If so you may have more than one variable.

I admire your persistence.

Bad ammo normally causes vertical stringing or random groups, but not horizontal stringing, I doubt very much if it is the ammo .
Cat

[spurly]

You mentioned, that everything is tight.If you only checked this with a screwdriver, then the screw, may be tight, but if they are a thou. or two too long, they will not hold the base as tight as needed, this is why I recomend, checking for tightness using a bore sighter, and looking for movement between the two sets of reticles. If one base is loose, this will cause 2 distinct groups with any ammo.

[NoKlu]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

And they are both using the bag right under the scope?
There is a whole lot of potential for horizontal stringing when the forward rest is that far back.
Cat

I totally agree that could be some of the problem. I use a rock on the front end of my set up and if I forget to tighten the set screw the groups are all over the place. It's kind of a moment when discover I just wasted a bunch of ammo with a loose set screw.

[J-hawk]

What an interesting read! A lot of good suggestions from a lot of sources. I have developed loads for many rifles from .220 SWift through .338 Win Mag (my personal favorite caliber) and have run across most of the problems listed here at one time or another and one not mentioned as well. Now the question here is how to approach and solve the problem. First, I recommend putting your sandbags under the heel of the stock at the rear and under the stock where your front hand will be not under the action. That will more closely replicate the forces on the stock when shooting in the field. In your earlier post you mentioned some significant winds from your back. If you are certain there were no swirling conditions down range you should have been OK. I once encountered a range that had significant cross winds down at the target but not noticable at the bench due to a berm and tree line.

Once you have eliminated the shooter as the cause I would recommend the next thing to address is the scope. Pull one off another rifle that shoots well and try it. If it is still stringing horizontally, remove the scope and the bases. Make sure the screws are not too long then thoroughly degrease everything - screws, bases and receiver. Now put a thin coat of epoxy on the underside of the bases then Loctite the screw threads and torque to the proper specifications. This will provide a perfect mating between the bottom of the bases and the receiver. Now reinstall a trusted scope and try again.

Still having the problem - try shimming the forend of the stock as mentioned earlier. This will let yhou know if you have a bedding issue. Still stringing - now it is time to start bedding. I would start with the action and recoil lug. If the scope or bases are not the problem, most likely it is the mating of the lug to the stock. Any uneven mating will cause this type of problem. Glass bedding is not difficult - I taught myself to do it. One recommendation - DO NOT SCIMP on the release agent - but that is a story for another time.

A comment on cold bore shooting - you mentioned your first shot from a cold clean bore was high. This is probably caused by the thin film of oil still in the bore from cleaning. My rifles all do that as well - some will be as much as 2.5 inches high on the first round. A friend of mine is a police sniper and since his first shot is critical and he can't fire a fouling shot he pops two primed cases before his first cold clean shot. His experience is that clears the oil as well as a live round and now he knows where the all important first shot will be true.

The last thing I will mention is I have never had ammo cause this type of problem. Bad ammo will give you significant velocity variatons shot to shot which can blow groups up to horendous proportions - it may be in the vertical or just a circular pattern but never just side to side.

By the way, the problem I encountered that has not been mentioned here was on my brother's .338. It too was stringing horizontally when I volunteered to take a look for him. After trying many of the above fixes I discovered it was still shooting side to side. But shooting a dozen rounds to the same point of aim presented two distinct inch and a quarter groups almost five inches apart side to side. I then went to a professional gunsmith and described all I had tried. His comment was that either there was a burr on the barrel threads or the barrel was bent. Sure enough, it was bent so it was off to Winchester for a new barrel. When I told my brother the final diagnosis his only comment was, "I bet that happened when Clyde rolled on it." Clyde was his horse.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

[Gutshot]

Sorry it’s taken so long to update this thread. Between range closures and running three kids to soccer I haven’t been able to get out shooting. This past Friday I finally managed to get to the range and here’s what I was able to accomplish:






I was using hand loads that my shooting partner built using 180gr Accubonds with 68gr of Reloader 22.

Targets one and two were shot from a lead sled while the third target was shot from a sand bag. For the first two targets I waited a minimum of 2 minutes between each shot to let the barrel cool. The 5 shots on the last target were shot consecutively but not rushed.

As you can see, with the exception of the flyer on target 2, there isn’t a significant amount of horizontal spread in any of the groups. The vertical spread on target three could be the result of several factors, shooter, powder loads, etc. but I’m not too concerned about this now that I know the rifle will shoot moa or less. I’m hoping more trigger time will iron out the inconsistencies

[Gutshot]

Since I started this thread I have:

1. Changed out the Leupold ringmounts for Optilocks - this was as much about aesthetics as is was about performance and something that I had intended to do eventually.
2. I also removed the action from the stock, cleaned all surfaces of grease and remounted the action making sure the recoil lug was pushed firmly against the rear of the bedding block. I never paid any attention to this detail the last time I re-assembled the rifle and it seems there is slight amount of play (less than a millimeter) between the bedding block and recoil lug. I suspect there has to be little play in a production rifle otherwise it would be tough assemble. Regardless, I intend to have the action bedded eventually.
3. I also checked the crown of the barrel and noticed some copper fouling. I was surprised by this because I clean the rifle after every range session and expected it to be pristine. Never the less, I got most of the fouling out using Barnes CR-10 and a brass brush.
4. The last thing I did was adjust my trigger pull to around 3 lbs. (approx. one full turn from the minimum) and practiced with a snap-cap for about 30 minutes a day, a few times a week.

[sullijr]

Originally Posted by Gutshot

Since I started this thread I have:

1. Changed out the Leupold ringmounts for Optilocks - this was as much about aesthetics as is was about performance and something that I had intended to do eventually.
2. I also removed the action from the stock, cleaned all surfaces of grease and remounted the action making sure the recoil lug was pushed firmly against the rear of the bedding block. I never paid any attention to this detail the last time I re-assembled the rifle and it seems there is slight amount of play (less than a millimeter) between the bedding block and recoil lug. I suspect there has to be little play in a production rifle otherwise it would be tough assemble. Regardless, I intend to have the action bedded eventually.
3. I also checked the crown of the barrel and noticed some copper fouling. I was surprised by this because I clean the rifle after every range session and expected it to be pristine. Never the less, I got most of the fouling out using Barnes CR-10 and a brass brush.
4. The last thing I did was adjust my trigger pull to around 3 lbs. (approx. one full turn from the minimum) and practiced with a snap-cap for about 30 minutes a day, a few times a week.

CR 10 will eat your brass brush just use a patch and let it sit, repeat until blue is gone.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by sullijr

CR 10 will eat your brass brush just use a patch and let it sit, repeat until blue is gone.

Good to know - thanks for the tip.

[sikwhiskey]

Wipe out works great for copper. No more brushing.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Gutshot

Since I started this thread I have:

1. Changed out the Leupold ringmounts for Optilocks - this was as much about aesthetics as is was about performance and something that I had intended to do eventually.
2. I also removed the action from the stock, cleaned all surfaces of grease and remounted the action making sure the recoil lug was pushed firmly against the rear of the bedding block. I never paid any attention to this detail the last time I re-assembled the rifle and it seems there is slight amount of play (less than a millimeter) between the bedding block and recoil lug. I suspect there has to be little play in a production rifle otherwise it would be tough assemble. Regardless, I intend to have the action bedded eventually.
3. I also checked the crown of the barrel and noticed some copper fouling. I was surprised by this because I clean the rifle after every range session and expected it to be pristine. Never the less, I got most of the fouling out using Barnes CR-10 and a brass brush.
   
4. The last thing I did was adjust my trigger pull to around 3 lbs. (approx. one full turn from the minimum) and practiced with a snap-cap for about 30 minutes a day, a few times a week.

So really curious to know, did these measures fix the horizontal stringing and did you do them one at a time then test, so you could tell which one actually fixed the issue?

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by sikwhiskey

Wipe out works great for copper. No more brushing.

Yeah, I've read that in various threads. Does anyone know where to buy it in Edmonton? I've checked at Cabelas, Wholesale Sports and Can Tire but no luck - maybe P & D???

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by Dean2

So really curious to know, did these measures fix the horizontal stringing and did you do them one at a time then test, so you could tell which one actually fixed the issue?

Yes, the horizontal stringing issue is resolved and I'm sorry to say that I didn't test each change to see which was the root of the problem.

I had a real bee in my bonnet to get this resolved and with the Spruce Grove gun range closed for maintenance I just kept tinkering. I'd be happy to provide a break down of what I thought was the issue but, having made so many changes at once, it would be mostly speculation. PM if you want the long winded version but here's a summary of what I thought made the difference:

1. Adjusting trigger pull and practicing - 60%
2. Cleaning and re-installing the action - 30%
3. Cleaning copper fouling out of the barrel crown - 10%
4. Change out scope rings - 0%

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Gutshot

Yeah, I've read that in various threads. Does anyone know where to buy it in Edmonton? I've checked at Cabelas, Wholesale Sports and Can Tire but no luck - maybe P & D???

P&D for sure sells it.....if they have any in stock is another story.

LC