Possible Causes of Horizontal Stringing

[Robmcleod82]

He said his friend had the same results, if I was you I would bed the thing it can't really hurt anything, I find synthetic stocks do funny things sometimes I would also level up between any ribs in the stock to help make it a little more rigid, I did a fiends rem 700 Sps Tupperware stock like that and the results were really good. I used short strand automotive fiberglass filler fore the forend ribs. Epoxy bed the action and recoil lug.

[catnthehat]

I missed the part where he said is shooting partner had the same results!
At times the 85's will yaw in the action a bit, I haven't seen it a lot, but it does happen, it could be that is what is happening.
A good look in there should be able to discern if it is in fact moving around, shingy spots whould be present.

Maybe try moving your front rest forward a bit as well.
Cat

[SkytopBrewster]

Not sure if the sako has the same goofy recoil lug as my tikka, slot in the reciever that the lug fits into, could the lug not be fitted back into the slot maybe? Mine can be a littly finiky to get back into the slot at times.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I am not sure if the stock is of similar design but mine had two oval holes behind the bedding block on either side. They were trying to save wieght but with a flat head screw driver in front of the block I was getting flex at these points.

I'll take the rifle apart again this evening and post a picture. Now you've got me curious to see if there are holes behind the bedding block.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by densa44

We are down to 2 options I guess the ammo and you. My barber thinks that the ammo is very poor, he has even complained to the manufacturer. He is starting to reload.

Are all the cold barrel shots in the bull?

The first cold bore shot out of a clean barrel was about an inch high, the rest of the cold bore shots were on the money (for the most part).

I've been using a lot of different factory ammo so far. Started with Fed Powershock 180gr, then tried Fusion 150 gr, back to Powershock 180 gr and finally Winchester Supreme Elite XP3 180 gr. I also shot two different hand load recipes with Nosler Ballistic Tip 180 gr, the first had 67 grains of Reloader 22, the second had 68 grains of Reloader 22. Of all the ammo I've shot to date, the hand loads with 68 grains of powder shot the best and the Winchester XP3 shot the best for the factory ammo but at $58/box I would expect them to perform better than the Powershock.

[catnthehat]

post deleted
Cat

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The Leupold Ringmounts are plenty strong if they are installed properly. If the bedding area is clean and dry, and the action screws are torqued properly, I would let a proven shooter try the gun, before doing any work on the gun.

I've heard a lot of different opinions about the Leupold Ringmounts. I'm not convinced they are the root of the problem either but it's obvious that the Sako Optilocks appear to be far sturdier and I can't help wondering if that's what's needed for a magnum cartridge...

As mentioned in a previous post, I wiped most of the grease out of the stock when I bought the rifle but... I didn't wipe it all out. I wasn't sure that I should be cleaning all of it out and mostly just removed what I thought was excess. Do you think I should give the stock and the action a good cleaning and get ALL the grease out? Do you think the grease could be causing the action to slip around after each shot?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Gutshot

I've heard a lot of different opinions about the Leupold Ringmounts. I'm not convinced they are the root of the problem either but it's obvious that the Sako Optilocks appear to be far sturdier and I can't help wondering if that's what's needed for a magnum cartridge...

As mentioned in a previous post, I wiped most of the grease out of the stock when I bought the rifle but... I didn't wipe it all out. I wasn't sure that I should be cleaning all of it out and mostly just removed what I thought was excess. Do you think I should give the stock and the action a good cleaning and get ALL the grease out? Do you think the grease could be causing the action to slip around after each shot?

ANY oil at all between a stock and action is no good for accuracy.
Cat

[AMisler]

Sako's from the factory are 1" moa guaranteed, aren't they?

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

ANY oil at all between a stock and action is no good for accuracy.
Cat

Thank you Cat! will make sure to get er good and clean before my next session at the range

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by AMisler

Sako's from the factory are 1" moa guaranteed, aren't they?

That's their claim... and that's why I bought a Sako. I'm not saying that my sako won't shoot moa or better but it hasn't yet and I'm just looking for help to figure out why. Could be it's just me...

[NoKlu]

That guarantee means right out of the box,no foolin around. Take it back.

[elkhunter11]

Just curious if you have ever used a proper copper solvent in the barrel?

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Gutshot

I checked the gap between the barrel and stock last night - used a paper bill($). The gap seems fine - the paper slid effortlessly all the way past the chamber to the action. Think it's safe to say that's not the issue.

I think this gun can shoot, it's most likely me but if I can't get a decent group at the range tomorrow I'm going to pick up a bedding kit and a new set of rings.

My wife is going to be sooo happy with me

I don't think anyone mentioned this, but I'd try loosening one action screw at a time and see if you can perceive any movement whatsoever between the metal and the stock. Put your rifle upside down in a rest and just alternate tightening and loosening the screws. If you detect any movement at all (your fingertips are good into the .0001's), I'd say you're going to be learning the black art of bedding.

You might want to think about telling your wife that if you bought another rifle you'd be able to determine whether it's you or your gun. Just trying to be helpful. note: that test only works, of course, in a different calibre.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by NoKlu

That guarantee means right out of the box,no foolin around. Take it back.

I think I need to make sure it's not me or my sight/rings that are causing the problem before I get Sako involved - think I'll do a little more shooting first.

[NoKlu]

It says in the Sako Manual that if you use handloads all warranty's are void so if you do talk to the seller leave the handload part out. If the best it will shoot is 3" I would return it. Why waste the ammo? Put on a set of the optilocks and try it out.

[spurly]

1. Have you tried a different scope, to eliminate it being a scope issue.

2.If you have access to a bore sighter, mount it in the barrell, andput your rifle into a gun vise or otherwise solid rest. while looking through your scope at the grid of the boresighter, put your hand on your scope, and wiggle it back, and forth. If there is any movement between the yuor reticle, and the boresighter grid, you have something loose.
3. Make sure when you put your rifle back together, that your box magazine is floating, not binding.
4. something you could also try is take the action out of the receiver, and put 2 shims, about the thickness of a credit card, one at the front of the action, one at the rear of the action, this will lift the action out of the stock slightly,and float, your barrell a bit more.
5 .you could also try shimming your barrell the same way, about an inch away from the tip of the forend, to add up pressure.

do these things, one at a time, so you have a process of elimination, and if something helps, then you have a better idea of how to proceed. I ussually always shim first, because it is temparary, but may lead you in the right direction to make a more permanent fix.
I think in the end, glassing the action will be the best result, but, I would recomend these ideas first, one at a time.
hope this might help.

[skinnykid]

So, I've read most of this thread... While it seems to be a consistant issue between rounds and shooters, I'm not disputing that it could be the rifle, definitely play with it a bit and see if it gets better. One thing I would also try, is a lead sled... I personally haven't had the best of luck when it came to shooting off of sand bags... Not going to lie, my very first thought was trigger control and body position behind the rifle. Usually horizontal stringing is an indication of such. Whereas vertical stringing usually points to ammo... When I got my 338, I had similar issues. Turned out to be the nut behind the wheel... Something to think about, that's all.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by Gutshot

I'll take the rifle apart again this evening and post a picture. Now you've got me curious to see if there are holes behind the bedding block.

Here's a couple pictures of the inside of the stock. Notice all the excess oil? I cleaned that all up before I remounted the action.

The recoil lug fits into a machined block of metal - I'm assuming it's aluminum. This block is really solid but with the action screws out I can definitely feel a small amount of play (approx. 1/16") between the action and the stock.

[elkhunter11]

Just curious as to all of the excess oil,do you by chance spray a gun lubricant onto the gun? If you do, this will be a reoccurring situation. Spray the oil onto a rag, and then wipe the rag over the barreled action. Whatever you do, do not spray any lubricant on the trigger mechanism.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by spurly

1. Have you tried a different scope, to eliminate it being a scope issue.

No, not yet

Originally Posted by spurly

2.If you have access to a bore sighter, mount it in the barrell, andput your rifle into a gun vise or otherwise solid rest. while looking through your scope at the grid of the boresighter, put your hand on your scope, and wiggle it back, and forth. If there is any movement between the yuor reticle, and the boresighter grid, you have something loose.

Nothing is loose

Originally Posted by spurly

3. Make sure when you put your rifle back together, that your box magazine is floating, not binding.

Done

Originally Posted by spurly

4. something you could also try is take the action out of the receiver, and put 2 shims, about the thickness of a credit card, one at the front of the action, one at the rear of the action, this will lift the action out of the stock slightly,and float, your barrell a bit more.

Will take this under consideration

Originally Posted by spurly

5 .you could also try shimming your barrell the same way, about an inch away from the tip of the forend, to add up pressure.

I'm not sure what this would accomplish - wouldn't this defeat the purpose of having a free-floated barrel?

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just curious as to all of the excess oil,do you by chance spray a gun lubricant onto the gun? If you do, this will be a reoccurring situation. Spray the oil onto a rag, and then wipe the rag over the barreled action. Whatever you do, do not spray any lubricant on the trigger mechanism.

Actually I've never oiled any part of this rifle other than a little bit of oil on the bolt. The oil you see in the pictures is from the factory, in fact, there was a lot more oil than that when I brought the rifle home but I gave it a quick wipe and put it back together.

An earlier post from Cat led me to the conclusion that I better clean that up before my next visit to the range.

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Just curious if you have ever used a proper copper solvent in the barrel?

Yes, I've been using Barnes CR-10.

[Robmcleod82]

some rifles like a pressure point on the barrel, I have never seen one that didnt shoot better with a floated barrel but I know they are out there.

[gopher]

Might just be a POS.

[NoKlu]

A 3" group out of a rifle,new or used, would put it in the POS category for me. You would think if they had a MOA guarantee they would supply a target with the cartridge used with the rifle.

[DelQ]

Gutshot, lots of solid advice. Hope your next range visit provides some more insight.

[elkhunter11]

A 3" group out of a rifle,new or used, would put it in the POS category for me. You would think if they had a MOA guarantee they would supply a target with the cartridge used with the rifle.

Then again, some rifles do come with a factory test target, and the buyer simply doesn't have the equipment or the skills to duplicate the factory group, and he becomes upset as a result. Lets face it, some people are simply not capable of shooting submoa groups, or they don't use a proper rest. I am not saying that this is the situation here, but it does happen.

I haven't seen it asked here yet, but to the OP, have you fired other magnum rifles, and what were your groups like? In order to fairly judge a rifle, you should have a reference point as to the shooter's ability. As well, I would try another scope .

[Gutshot]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

...

I haven't seen it asked here yet, but to the OP, have you fired other magnum rifles, and what were your groups like? In order to fairly judge a rifle, you should have a reference point as to the shooter's ability. As well, I would try another scope .

Fair enough...

I have shot several magnum cartridges before but never in the context of trying to shoot for ultimate accuracy - most groups were in the 2" to 3" range @ 100yds. As a matter of fact, I was quite concerned about whether I'd even be able to shoot a magnum accurately before I bought the Sako. I didn't want to spend that much money only to find out I couldn't handle the recoil. I shot a 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 270 WSM and two different 300 WSM's before deciding to pull the trigger so to speak. Honestly, I was quite surprised the first time I shot my Sako at just how manageable the recoil was - even my hunting/shooting buddy commented on how nice it was to shoot (he owns the 300 Win Mag).

In terms of basic shooting ability, I've been able to shoot sub-moa groups with my old .308 for years.

I have a Millet tactical scope that I'd love to shoot on this rifle but I'd need to get some 30 mm rings first. I have no other scopes aside from the Millet and the Leupold that's on the rifle already - I may have to borrow a scope from my shooting buddy who has a spare.

There's been a lot of great questions and suggestion offered on this thread and I am grateful for everyone's interest, opinions and expertise. I'll be the very first to admit that the fault could lie in me and not the gun or accessories. That said, I'm not gonna give up, IF the fault lies in my form, technique or ability I'm going to conquer it!

Can't wait to get to the range to try again....

[NoKlu]

The Sako site claims that rifle was thoroughly tested for accuracy.I would contact them and ask what they were using for ammo. I just bought a .223 Brno and it was shooting 1" with several types and weights of ammo until I tried America Eagle 50 grain. The thing put 3 in the same hole. They were so tight the only way I could tell was a slight elongation of the hole. Yes there was luck involved for it to be so tight but other groups are less than 1/2" with that ammo. Of course that ammo is rare as hens teeth and I only had the one box. Could be yours is finicky with the weights as well. Move your front bag out to the front swivel as Cat suggested and take your shooting buddy along to eliminate you own shooting habits. Good luck.