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  #31  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:45 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Basically about the size of a FN 320 nodwell but with an articulating trailer on it as well. Flat decks front and back. Big winch. That was about 20 years ago and the bill started out at $5000 just to start it.
I imagine that the trailer of the "sow" is hydraulically powered, am I correct? Basically, don't get stuck... Thank you for the info!
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  #32  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:52 PM
Tfng Tfng is offline
 
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I imagine that the trailer of the "sow" is hydraulically powered, am I correct? Basically, don't get stuck... Thank you for the info!
Grouse hunter it's not if but when you get stuck imo. Cool thread though!
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  #33  
Old 01-09-2017, 08:44 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Grouse hunter it's not if but when you get stuck imo. Cool thread though!
Overconfidence is the downfall of many operators. I think resisting the urge to see what a rig can do will result in less unpleasant situations. Also one can choose a longer, yet safer route vs going through the middle of a swamp. There are a number of threads on various off road vehicle forums which address "safe and sane" off-roading. Once I have my rig fully set up for hunting and loaded with gear, I'll take it to one of the local off road parks and test it's capabilities in a setting where it can be recovered when stuck. That should give me a good idea as to what the vehicles' threshold is. With proper training and recovery gear, I should be well on my way to moose camp!
It is a great thread, because of knowledgeable contributions. I'm certain that I'll review it a number of times in the future.
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  #34  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:01 PM
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http://foremost.ca/foremost-mobile-e...s/nodwell-320/

Click on middle pic in gallery. Ran that particular machine up in the arctic one winter many years ago.
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  #35  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:15 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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http://foremost.ca/foremost-mobile-e...s/nodwell-320/

Click on middle pic in gallery. Ran that particular machine up in the arctic one winter many years ago.
The drilling rig? What's your opinion on getting stuck, as in is it inevitable or avoidable? Did you ever travel solo, or was it always in a convoy? Do you remember your fuel use per hour of operation while traveling?
Foremost makes some impressive machines. I once saw a Commander around Lodgepole. It was the last thing that I expected when I turned a corner on a lease road...
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  #36  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:15 PM
trackrig trackrig is offline
 
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Grouse Hunter,

You asked about fuel consumption. With as much mud as we're in out there, the 110 uses about a gal of diesel per mile. Usually we're in 2nd gear 80% of the time. There's a bit of 1st gear and some 3rd gear. I have hit 4th and 5th for very short stretches just to see if they're still there.

In a gas CF60 exactly as I'm getting, on the way into our hunting area I got under a mile per gal. I wasn't familiar with the smaller rig and the gas engine, I was running it in too low of a gear. As I got more familiar on the way out I was running it in higher gears and probably got 1.25 mpg. A friend who hunted back in there with an RN60 with a Ford straight 6, always got less than 1 mpg.

Here's my Brother's RN160 on the trail.



Look at how much water and mud I'm pushing in front of me. This is why a straight 6 gas engine in a RN110 doesn't work back there. You have to spend too much time in first gear.



This is the field where I broke through the tundra and put the front bumper under. When you get out and walk, you can feel the tundra shimmy under your feet.



The only other two rigs that come out that far. They stay for three weeks and have the meat flown out because they're back about 50 miles from the highway.



Pushing more mud and water.



Now imagine slipping a track down in that if you don't have another rig with you.

Bill
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  #37  
Old 01-10-2017, 06:27 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Great pictures trackrig! Beautiful scenery in your parts. Thank you for the fuel consumption information. I understand that traveling with two units is much safer. I don't think that I'll be able to find a hunting partner with comparable equipment and one that I can tolerate in camp for a couple of weeks!
I'd imagine that it gets pretty expensive to fly the meat out for the group which you mentioned. I assume it's by helicopter.
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  #38  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:23 PM
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No - not by helicopter. Fish & Game would confiscate both the helicopter and track rig if they used one. There's a huge strip back there they can put Hercs in on and several of the mines have strips big enough to put DC-6s in on loaded with fuel.

About 15 years ago there was a huge snow storm and cold weather that hit the interior of the state during moose season. The lakes were just about to the freezing point then the snow helped them to freeze. There were a lot of stranded hunters that had gone in by float planes and couldn't get out.

The helicopters wouldn't go get them until the Governor signed a special decree and the F&G said they wouldn't go after the helicopters.

Bill
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  #39  
Old 01-14-2017, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouse_hunter View Post
The drilling rig? What's your opinion on getting stuck, as in is it inevitable or avoidable? Did you ever travel solo, or was it always in a convoy? Do you remember your fuel use per hour of operation while traveling?
Foremost makes some impressive machines. I once saw a Commander around Lodgepole. It was the last thing that I expected when I turned a corner on a lease road...
That rig used a ton of fuel, but it has a 600hp engine running hydraulics and a 1200 cfm screw compressor. With no weight on them (just a deck) the chances of getting stuck are a lot less than carrying an extra 30-40000 lbs.

This one should keep you safe from getting stuck


16105912_10154047275467041_4669985304559376914_n.jpg
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  #40  
Old 01-14-2017, 04:37 PM
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Great thread guys. Love the info and pics. Just something about running on tracks that gets in a guys blood


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #41  
Old 01-15-2017, 01:21 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Worked for TVS for a couple of yrs, late 70's, it was a lot of fun learning about that stuff. Didn't pay well, but it was very educational.
They had stuff all over the planet. Russia, Venezuela, France, Australia, Indonesia, Hawaii, Syria. Used to have a Czech fella packing Russian orders, they'd come round to inspect the orders. He used to pack all sorts of stuff in their orders, he detested the Russians, he caught a bit of grief, a few times, over some of the stuff he put in there, and some of the things he said to them.
They built stuff with Dodge cabs for a long time, Chrysler gas pots, Ford gas pots, one version Cat, lots of Detroit. Lot of US surplus stuff. Some cool old pcs of equipt, some colourful customers and a lot of laughs.
Seems to me the OC15 originated in the Sherman tank and the M24 was from the Patton tank.
Got to ride in a Commander one day going down Blackfoot to the Stampede grounds to the Oil Show, that was a hoot.
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  #42  
Old 01-15-2017, 07:52 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouse_hunter View Post
Overconfidence is the downfall of many operators. I think resisting the urge to see what a rig can do will result in less unpleasant situations. Also one can choose a longer, yet safer route vs going through the middle of a swamp. There are a number of threads on various off road vehicle forums which address "safe and sane" off-roading. Once I have my rig fully set up for hunting and loaded with gear, I'll take it to one of the local off road parks and test it's capabilities in a setting where it can be recovered when stuck. That should give me a good idea as to what the vehicles' threshold is. With proper training and recovery gear, I should be well on my way to moose camp!
It is a great thread, because of knowledgeable contributions. I'm certain that I'll review it a number of times in the future.
If I could add my uneducated opinion, I would say that the wheeled unit would probably do 90% of what you need it to. I would guess that ground pressure on it would be probably less than some quads. Which means that there are limits. A skid steer unit while having all kinds of traction in a straight line, tends to tear things up and dig unless you are conservative with steering input.

If it was me, I would be tempted by the wheeled unit by the fact that there is a little less maintenance, no track to throw in the middle of the bush and you would get better speed. And I'm guessing twice the mileage on decent ground.

Where the muskeg is decent, I've had my little Sidekick on it, with the moss brushing the frame. A little larger than stock tires, and open diffs. Stopped with water around the tires and tested the ground by plunging a stick 6" into it and not hitting anything solid...

And where it's ugly, almost nothing will go.

Ever consider an Argo Centaur? With or without tracks it would probably go everywhere the big 4 wheeler would. Operating costs would probably be a bit lower, too. And pretty hard to stop with tracks.
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  #43  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:16 AM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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As to whether the rops is needed; probably not very likely to tip it over, but when you are going over rough terrain, anything is possible.
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  #44  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
That rig used a ton of fuel, but it has a 600hp engine running hydraulics and a 1200 cfm screw compressor. With no weight on them (just a deck) the chances of getting stuck are a lot less than carrying an extra 30-40000 lbs.

This one should keep you safe from getting stuck


Attachment 129746
This machine has been stuck .
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  #45  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:11 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Thank you for more great info guys! Tactical Lever, the tires for the Nodwell that I linked are $22,000 for the budget Firestone AG option... I think that it'll do everything that I want it to, since I don't really go into pure muskeg. And even if I were to venture in that type of an environment, I'd drive over bushes and other small vegetation in order to "build a road" for the vehicle while navigating the circumference of a "mud hole".
The idea of changing a 5'x4' AG tire on my own seem daunting at best. A crane is a must, even then I can imagine that it would be a task and a half.
Has anyone here had any experience with Bombardier Muskeg? Even though I don't want to support the sinkhole which is Bombardier with my money, these machines seem to be reasonably sized and well designed. Also, there's one available locally, even though the dealer is asking an arm and a leg for it...
I would really appreciate more personal experience being shared in this thread. I sent a pm to trackrig with this question, yet he hasn't answered it in almost a week...
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  #46  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:20 PM
Tfng Tfng is offline
 
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Grouse hunter what do you think of building a rig on ballon tires similar to what positrac is looking at doing? Maybe a 6x6 for more load capacity? Maybe have a trailer with the same tires on it?

Sorry I can't help out with personal experience but it seems to me something like that would be easier to deal with all around.
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  #47  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:46 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Grouse hunter what do you think of building a rig on ballon tires similar to what positrac is looking at doing? Maybe a 6x6 for more load capacity? Maybe have a trailer with the same tires on it?

Sorry I can't help out with personal experience but it seems to me something like that would be easier to deal with all around.
There are a number of 4x4 and 6x6 off road vehicles using the Arctictrans and custom flotation tires that have been manufactured in Russia. A lot of them are budget, home-made units which use parts from an assortment of passenger vehicles. It's definitely doable. http://lunohodov.net/ is an excellent information source with thousands of documented builds. For some reason it is offline at the moment, I hope that it comes back since it is an indispensable cache of off-roading knowledge which can be translated using Google Translate. In Russia they don't build roads, they make bigger tires!
I don't think that one could build a skid steer 6x6 machine. The SHERP unit which positrac referred to is basically a floating skid steer.
I can't weld whatsoever so building a unit myself is out of the question. I'm looking at existing pieces of equipment which could be modified to fit my needs. I'd need to modify the body of every vehicle which I've linked in this thread, and would have to pay someone to do it... The best I can do when it comes to equipment is changing fluids and greasing, otherwise it is out of my area of expertise. I do know a little bit on a relatively small number of unrelated subjects
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  #48  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouse_hunter View Post
Thank you for more great info guys! Tactical Lever, the tires for the Nodwell that I linked are $22,000 for the budget Firestone AG option... I think that it'll do everything that I want it to, since I don't really go into pure muskeg. And even if I were to venture in that type of an environment, I'd drive over bushes and other small vegetation in order to "build a road" for the vehicle while navigating the circumference of a "mud hole".
The idea of changing a 5'x4' AG tire on my own seem daunting at best. A crane is a must, even then I can imagine that it would be a task and a half.
Has anyone here had any experience with Bombardier Muskeg? Even though I don't want to support the sinkhole which is Bombardier with my money, these machines seem to be reasonably sized and well designed. Also, there's one available locally, even though the dealer is asking an arm and a leg for it...
I would really appreciate more personal experience being shared in this thread. I sent a pm to trackrig with this question, yet he hasn't answered it in almost a week...
"bombies" are tough but they are rough. I would suggest using solid tires rather than air filled. Changing tires on them are not fun. There are no wheel nuts on most, rim comes off my removing bearings. They are overall a good unit though
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  #49  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:59 PM
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"bombies" are tough but they are rough. I would suggest using solid tires rather than air filled. Changing tires on them are not fun. There are no wheel nuts on most, rim comes off my removing bearings. They are overall a good unit though
Thank you for the reply! I didn't realize that the tires on those units were air filled. I'd imagine "perma-filled" tires would be much more practical. Have you ever had any experience throwing a track off one of them? The tracks are mounted directly under the body and seem to be less accessible than they would be on a Nodwell.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:03 PM
Tfng Tfng is offline
 
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I must have forgotten what he was building. I was thinking he was building a unit like the one on stonetusk.ca

I was thinking a 6x6 with conventional steering. It would take some figuring to convert the front drive axle to have a through shaft to the rear axle though. I've got many other things I need to spend money on but I've enjoyed thinking about it.

I can see your reluctance to build something from scratch if you're paying by the hour to have it done.
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  #51  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by grouse_hunter View Post
Thank you for the reply! I didn't realize that the tires on those units were air filled. I'd imagine "perma-filled" tires would be much more practical. Have you ever had any experience throwing a track off one of them? The tracks are mounted directly under the body and seem to be less accessible than they would be on a Nodwell.
About the only way to lose a track is by ripping one off. No difference than a nodwell. Rare to ever have one come off, unless you rip it. Actually never have seen one come off myself, but did rip one off one time.
Of course these were always never machines with a front idler/tightener. The old ones didn't have that
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  #52  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:17 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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About the only way to lose a track is by ripping one off. No difference than a nodwell. Rare to ever have one come off, unless you rip it. Actually never have seen one come off myself, but did rip one off one time.
Of course these were always never machines with a front idler/tightener. The old ones didn't have that
That's what I figured regarding the tracks! The machine in Acheson is a 2005 Muskeg HY. Seems pretty sophisticated. Thank you for the feedback.
The Muskeg is small enough to pull behind a heavy duty pick up and to maneuver in the trees which definitely beats having to own a lowboy and cutting trees down to get through the woods.
Tfng, are you planning to leave the middle axle inactive and to engage just the front and back ones? Just trying to understand your design.
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  #53  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:29 PM
Tfng Tfng is offline
 
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Set it up just like a big truck. Steer axle is driven, second axle with a power divider which will drive that axle as well as provide an output to the third axle. Selectable lockers all around and you've got a true 6x6. Having one of the rear axles not driven would be much simpler though.

The power divider would have to be custom built to avoid having to go to a very heavy but commercially available rear end.

I don't really have a design at this point, just ideas.
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  #54  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:52 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Set it up just like a big truck. Steer axle is driven, second axle with a power divider which will drive that axle as well as provide an output to the third axle. Selectable lockers all around and you've got a true 6x6. Having one of the rear axles not driven would be much simpler though.

The power divider would have to be custom built to avoid having to go to a very heavy but commercially available rear end.

I don't really have a design at this point, just ideas.
That's pretty neat! Most 6x6 Unimogs use a hydraulically driven 3rd axle in order to reduce the stress on the drive train. I've heard mixed responses about that kind of a set up.
One way or another, a vehicle with flotation tires needs to have a tire pressure control system for various types of terrain. It's interesting that the Sherp uses the exhaust from the Kubota engine to inflate the tires. Apparently, the axles are pressurized, which is how each tire is inflated.
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  #55  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:48 PM
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Grouse Hunter,

I typed out a long reply about Muskegs with a lot of pictures, but the forum ate it somehow. Basically I think they're good machines.

Here's a RN60 that I slipped a track on. Because we had another Nodwell to anchor the com-a-longs to, we had it back on in an hour. Don't know why it came off. It was a good section of trail.



I'm off to the airport and will be gone for three weeks. If I get a chance I'll try to resend the info on the Muskegs.

Bill

Last edited by trackrig; 01-15-2017 at 10:56 PM.
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  #56  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:18 PM
grouse_hunter grouse_hunter is offline
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Trackrig, that looks unpleasant to say the least. I must compliment the man in the picture. Belt and suspenders?! He is ready for anything I'm looking forward to your Muskeg opinion once you get back!
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  #57  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:23 PM
Tactical Lever Tactical Lever is offline
 
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Default Tires vs. track

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Originally Posted by grouse_hunter View Post
Thank you for more great info guys! Tactical Lever, the tires for the Nodwell that I linked are $22,000 for the budget Firestone AG option... I think that it'll do everything that I want it to, since I don't really go into pure muskeg. And even if I were to venture in that type of an environment, I'd drive over bushes and other small vegetation in order to "build a road" for the vehicle while navigating the circumference of a "mud hole".
The idea of changing a 5'x4' AG tire on my own seem daunting at best. A crane is a must, even then I can imagine that it would be a task and a half.
Has anyone here had any experience with Bombardier Muskeg? Even though I don't want to support the sinkhole which is Bombardier with my money, these machines seem to be reasonably sized and well designed. Also, there's one available locally, even though the dealer is asking an arm and a leg for it...
I would really appreciate more personal experience being shared in this thread. I sent a pm to trackrig with this question, yet he hasn't answered it in almost a week...
Wow, that's a lot for tires. (Can you tell I've never bought one that big?) I mentioned that a tire might be easier to deal with, as you probably wouldn't be changing it on the trail, but fixing it on the rim. In my very limited experience I "helped" with putting on track on a track hoe. It wasn't bad IIRC on flat ground using the machine to lift itself up, and rotating the track to feed it back on. Of course it didn't completely come off. With a tired machine, even if you are rolling on 3 good ones, you can still make progress to a better spot to fix. With tracks, alone you are pretty much done and are doing it there. Just my opinion (or educated guess), and guys with a lot more experience with machines like that might be able to support or refute it.

Those tires probably last quite a while, but it's going to be painful replacing them. For that kind of price you would probably have a nice new Centaur half paid off. Although I would probably have a look for a used one. With one of those, you can run on tires or get the tracks over top of the tires. Have you considered one?

Speaking of big machines and muskeg, you might want to factor in a couple really big hydraulic winches. Dad nearly lost a wide track D8 once in the muskeg. All he had to winch onto was one little tree, probably less than 5" (he put his hands kinda like "this" to tell the story).
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  #58  
Old 01-16-2017, 08:15 PM
angery jonn angery jonn is offline
 
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Did you figure out the part number?
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  #59  
Old 01-16-2017, 08:49 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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for Tfng;

We sent some 6x6 units to China that had "spaghetti driveline" setups in them. Steer axle was driven off the pinion on the front rear axle, driveline ran back up under the transmission and down to the front axle, no transfer case. They were 44,000 rated Rockwell SSHD's, a normal highway truck axle with a special pinion on that came out the front, with a yoke on it to a 16,000lb rated drive/steer axle. So, that stuff exists.

Even more fun;
There are tandem axles in Europe that have dual crown & pinion setups in each axle, one driveline to the front one, two thrushafts on the front one, each wheel has its own crown and pinion driving it. And they drove steer axles off the front axle as well.
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  #60  
Old 01-17-2017, 01:02 PM
justletmehunt justletmehunt is offline
 
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Has anyone ever seen or tried out these? I believe they're built in central Alberta.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOGhdSHQdo4
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