PCL general contractors. Safety overload

[Burglecut83]

Has anyone here worked on a PCL jobsite in Alberta lately.
I have been working on a couple in the Edmonton area the past 2 years. It seems to me they act like Nazis. One week something is "legal" and safe... the next week someone decides its not. Got safety people that are scared to speak their own mind because they have kids at home to feed. Its quite the culture they have going there. There was a safety audit today and they are such anal nazis about every little thing I decided to give my guys the day off with pay just so I dont get shut down for a week with reduculous investogations about why some guy forgot his safety glasses on the workbench while looking at some plans. I have never had a major safety incident in my 15 years doing construction and do my best everyday to ensure proper equipment is available and training on how to use it. I just am at my wits end with these guys. You cant even question them or offer solutions other than their own. They dont seem to want to work with you just make everything as difficult as posisble.

Does anyone share my frustrations or have any examples of their rediculousness to add?

[play.soccer]

Are you at NWR? Lol

SRLs to climb permanent ladders sucks. Fecto goggles suck. PCL has quite the culture because all anyone worries about is their shares. "Muh shares muh shares"

[Newview01]

I didn't bid on a huge project in Lethbridge because of their overbearing safety policies / requirements. Out of the 5-6 companies they asked I believe only 2 submitted a price because of safety.

[nast70]

We recently bid on a PCL project with a couple other companies in our field. This was our 3rd PCL job, we lost our shirts on one of the previous ones because of the extra extra time spent on orientations. Our labor costs on the last one were 3 times what would be normal, because of the orientation. Our project literally would be 20 minutes of work, after a 60 minute orientation. I get that guys have to watch out for each other, but some stuff is getting pretty ridiculous. I have heard that a Chrysler dealership in the city has all techs REQUIRED to wear gloves. Have you look under the hood of some of these cars? unless you are a 12year old you wont be getting your hand anywhere near the inside of a motor. with gloves, its pretty impossible.

[Newview01]

Stuart Olson now requires ALL people on their sites to wear gloves. One of their firemen told me that since then hand injuries had increased on the job he was on.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Stuart Olson now requires ALL people on their sites to wear gloves. One of their firemen told me that since then hand injuries had increased on the job he was on.

Same as Graham

[Reaver]

In my 18 years in the trades, things have gone from reasonable to ridiculous on a lot of jobs sites. To be fair though, I've worked in some down right dangerous shops and sites. But, for the most part it seems as though safety is always having to cater to the lowest common denominator.

The best part about a lot of these safety people is they've barely, if ever worked on a job site, aside from being safety. And they get to decide how you should do your job in a safe manner.

[I_forget]

I guess none of you have worked at big oil sands sites. Suncor multiple days of orientation, an hour on bears alone. As far as removing glasses to read prints? Don't even think about it. Shell Scotford you're fired if you're not tied off while reaching out to grab material from the gin wheel

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by I_forget

I guess none of you have worked at big oil sands sites. Suncor multiple days of orientation, an hour on bears alone. As far as removing glasses to read prints? Don't even think about it. Shell Scotford you're fired if you're not tied off while reaching out to grab material from the gin wheel

No wonder they struggle to profit at $50 a bbl.

[Mayhem]

Try working for IOL...

[Burglecut83]

What is IOL? I wouldnt even care about it so much but its so bad that my guys ask to not be put on theor sites because theyre scared if they run into some pcl employee on a power trip they may lose their livliehood. I can see them wanting to remove repeat offenders etc. But a guy havjng an oversight with no past safety infractions in my opinion shoukd get corrected, shown the proper way to work safely, given an opportunity to show theyve learned from their mistakes and allowed to carry on. Not just fired on the spot and banned from all PCL sites. Seems harsh and outrageous to me. Then again who the **** am I?

[MrPants]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Try working for IOL...

It's not that bad, office guys are the worst there, but they leave and don't come out for a couple weeks. My favourite rule there is; if some one is in your truck they need to spot you, but if you are alone then back up solo and it's all good.

It really depends on how a company delivers safety, you can't go around making guys scared for their jobs.

Wearing gloves does reduce hand injuries, and it comes down to the workers the use the stuff properly, or ask for the right PPE to do the job.

We are getting to a point where guys/gals are being picked over with a fine tooth comb and such petty stuff is being brought up.

[lmtada]

Safety has been increasing in every industry. Government implements it after lobbied by safety organizations. Creates new safety industry and more new taxpayers. Government grows. However this Slows down resource extraction. Makes Canadian resources less competitive against foreign countries offering the same resource.
Yes, the hurdles Government buerocrats creates stifles investments. Are we safer?? Maybe save a few lives.
The fun has gone.

[Heyupduck]

well here is my safety story. years ago I was running a swingstage off the roof of red deer provincial building. The roof was sloped the wrong way, and there were virtually no tie backs.

A couple of months later some Govt safety guy is chewing us out for using painters knots as rope grabs - He says he cares about our safety, and we have to use the metal ones. I told him if he cares about safety do something about the provincial building in red deer

"oh that's not my area" - well you don't care about my safety then.....

[sourdough doug]

There is no stopping this (safety) snowball. It is now beyond the point of being stopped. The cost of implementing all that is having to be contended with today is passed on to the consumer and as mentioned, we will soon price ourselves out of a ever smaller market....and then someone will say.."Where did we go wrong ?".....Do da word --Liability --ring any bells ???

[wildwoods]

We've contracted for PCL on a good number of jobs now. It usually depends on the safety person on that particular site as well as the site super. Some are lax, some are awful. I like working there but they definitely do get higher pricing as a result- and they know it.

I heard once that their safety record allows them to bid on the massive infrastructure job for the Gubmint. Makes sense...

Safety is a huge industry. The lobbyists are winning and it only drives costs up. The difference between now and 5 years ago is staggering.

[curtz]

I've been in the oil patch for almost 30 years and it's deffiently gotten stupid. There use to be a saying years ago, ( nobody moves nobody gets hurt ), it almost reality. I think it's all ass covering, I would gladly sign a letter saying that I have safety training and safety supplies and it's my responsibility to use it, if it means being left alone to do my job.

[EZM]

Recently sent a crew down to PCL working on the University site in Lethbridge. There was a fair amount of red tape and orientation, but nothing unusual really compared to other sites. All major contractors are now on the safety bandwagon and it is intrusive and inhibiting in some ways. I don't know if they are worse compared to Suncor or Shell (where we also do some work).

They have been down a couple times since. The first time down, our crews were inspected (some would call it hassled) a few times for various minor things (questions and certification and orientation type stuff) and we ended up billing out twice as many hours as we initially estimated, but were honest with the superintendent as to why there were delays.

I think that the site superintendents know and understand that sometimes you just have to be reasonable. Because of all the safety guys crawling all over the place, he was able to set us up in an adjacent yard (right next to the site) to work on the equipment and avoid the safety guy hassling the crew.

My advice, if you can do the work off site, do it. If you can develop a relationship, do it. Puts less stress on everyone.

Safety is here to stay - PCL is not alone.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by EZM

I think that the site superintendents know and understand that sometimes you just have to be reasonable.

Safety is here to stay - PCL is not alone.

Most of the superintendents I know support the ridiculous safety rules.

There is never a good reason for trades to wear hard hats and high vis when a building is in finishing stages.

[Burglecut83]

I have come across some decent, common sense PCL superintendants. Most PCL people seem like they have been brainwashed to be proper punts. Like they have some sort of aptitude test and if youre not a cranky robotic numbskull with a certain level of jackss scale then you arent even considered for the job regardless of qualifications. Maybe these people are great normal decent people away from work but man sometimes its like they are wanna be cops in the hood in LA trying to shakedown crack dealers. Kinda sad when good skilled men dont want to work their sites because they just dont want to deal with their incredible heaps of bull****.

[fishstix]

Here is a quick one....
A guy i work with had a seagull drop a porkchop bone on his head. Now everyone has to wear a hard hat in that area. What a joke!

[play.soccer]

Pcl has lists of approved ppe right down to gloves. $110 pair of non slip cut proof gauntlet gloves that you bought yourself = can't wear em.

$10 pair of ropers = wear em

[Burglecut83]

Originally Posted by play.soccer

Pcl has lists of approved ppe right down to gloves. $110 pair of non slip cut proof gauntlet gloves that you bought yourself = can't wear em.

$10 pair of ropers = wear em

Is there any logic or reasoning behind this or are they just being difficult do you think?

[play.soccer]

Originally Posted by Burglecut83

Is there any logic or reasoning behind this or are they just being difficult do you think?

No idea, just going off of what QC has told me.

[sewerrat]

Funny that all those company's are so strict and at times very anal about safety , but yet every year we hear that debris is flying off buildings and hurting innocent people down below.

[sprinklerdog]

I felt the glove thing was a bit much. As a supervisor on site who is not touching materials or tools and still required to where gloves is a bit much. There were 2 different projects I was on you weren't allowed to talk on your cell and walk, one or the other but not both!
So much safety is about the idiot working near you. We had a load of pipe and crates that were to be craned off a flat deck and the driver jumped out of his truck wearing flip flops and shorts, no ppe at all. Right in front of the site pm and then wondered why he was thrown off site. Same company sent another driver on another day with same work wear. Company says their drivers have ppe and are safe. Really?
When you need to go up 10' to tie off cause you're working over 3' high on a 6' ladder that is hard to understand. Especially because you're not tied off to get to the anchor point!
The fun has yet to start. Wait until pot is legal and someone tests positive on a work site. As the kids sing..........the wheels on the bus go round and round.....

Geo

[.270fan]

I used to teach safety orientation for a major well servicing contractor just after the IRP 16 came into effect. A lot of the old hands would roll their eyes while the green hands were scared spitless, but all these safety laws and regulations are written in blood....someone got killed or seriously injured so they came up with ways to prevent that from happening again. Yes a lot of it seems like common sense....but common sense isn't all that common any more. Add testosterone, pride, shortcuts, fatigue and inexperience to the mix and bad things will happen.

I lost one of my sons to a workplace accident 3 years ago, he was 16 years old. Under trained and under supervised he was placed shovelling gravel from under an unguarded conveyor and got caught. I was also an EMT and am an EMR/Firefighter still and see the results of carelessness and inattention all the time.

Safety is a pretty personal topic for me, if people would use machinery and tools in the manner they are supposed to be, follow safety policies and procedures and look out for one another, less bad things would happen. My son would still be alive.

[waterninja]

I loved OHS when I contracted out to a huge food store chain. There was never a shortage of work installing all the crazy things that some kid fresh out of school would come up with as a mandatory requirement that store managers had to get have to be up to code. I esp. loved it when they gave OHS personalle the right to issue tickets. If they asked some poor schmuck working at the till where the 3 closet fire extinguishers are located, and the person didn't know, out comes the ticket book. I also loved those "toe tips" that you had to strap over your shoes if you were using a pallet jack or pushing a cart. Next to impossible to wear them without tripping.
I'm all for saftey in the workplace, but things have gotten crazy.

[tacomama]

Originally Posted by .270fan

I used to teach safety orientation for a major well servicing contractor just after the IRP 16 came into effect. A lot of the old hands would roll their eyes while the green hands were scared spitless, but all these safety laws and regulations are written in blood....someone got killed or seriously injured so they came up with ways to prevent that from happening again. Yes a lot of it seems like common sense....but common sense isn't all that common any more. Add testosterone, pride, shortcuts, fatigue and inexperience to the mix and bad things will happen.

I lost one of my sons to a workplace accident 3 years ago, he was 16 years old. Under trained and under supervised he was placed shovelling gravel from under an unguarded conveyor and got caught. I was also an EMT and am an EMR/Firefighter still and see the results of carelessness and inattention all the time.

Safety is a pretty personal topic for me, if people would use machinery and tools in the manner they are supposed to be, follow safety policies and procedures and look out for one another, less bad things would happen. My son would still be alive.

Sorry to hear about your son 270fan.
You brought up many excellent points though about safety on the job.
There is always something behind a certain rule, legislation or company policy and as we all know, common sense is not that common anymore.

I have been in the safety side for the last 3-4 years and before that I was on the tools for over 10 years in my industry.

Too many times people get hurt or even killed because of fatigue, rushing, cutting corners, etc. These rules, while sometimes ridiculous, are there for the workers to keep them safe. Our world is changing and liability and public perception is huge. Many companies have a lot of safety rules because they have to in order to get contracts, which in turn ensures you have a job to go to and make money to feed your family. And as far as I know, most "safety" people in companies actually give a rat's azz about their colleagues and want to make sure they go home at the end of the day.
On the flipside, if your company has rules and PPE requirements and IS PAYING YOU TO FOLLOW THEM, then what is the big deal?

Across all industries, most people are pretty good about following the rules that protect their lives and companies are getting better by protecting their workers. Those who dislike and fight these things probably need to check their ego and leave it at the job site entrance, I am sure they have family and friends that want to see them again...

[Burglecut83]

I guess its the way they treat people. Like no one ever made a mistake in their life. **** just happens sometimes. I guess the simple solution for me is to just not quote any more of their work.