Here we go again... Possible BSL in Edmonton.

[silverdoctor]

Grab your torch and pitchfork.

I spend alot of time in dog parks, and this past summer I broke up 7 dog attacks - not fights but attacks. Large dog on small dog. 3 times I had blood on my hands and arms. Of these 7 attacks, 3 were Labs, one rottie, one husky, and the other 2 were cross breeds. None looked like bully anything.

Owners of the large dogs that attack claim my dog has never done this before - and I believe that for the most. I have no doubt due to the shock and panic the owners exhibit. Here's the problem, I like to know why the attack happened..

I asked all 7 owners if their dog has squeaky toys - all answer yes.
I asked all 7 owners if their dog destroys squeaky toys - all answer yes.

In 3 of these attacks, I seen what happened leading up to the attack, seen the actual attack and the aftermath. What happens?

Large dog approaches small dog, small dog gets nervous and many small dogs squeak or shriek - one can see the moment the switch flips in the large dogs head, and they see a squeak toy that needs to be terminated. It's not just small dogs either - many large dogs can sound squeaky when excited - and I've seen that stimulate aggression as well in other large dogs.

I wish more people would stop to think about what they are doing to their dogs.

We need DNA testing of EVERY dog that attacks to show what breed or combination of breeds that are doing the attacking. It's fair that the owner of the dog that attacks pays for it.

Pit bulls are worst offenders in fatal dog-on-dog attacks,

Edmonton stats show Specifically, American Staffordshire terriers responsible for 23 of the 81 fatal attacks reported since 2013

Sara Ward says she has the proof in black and white that pit bulls should be muzzled in Edmonton.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...atal-1.4348090

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4249925

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Grab your torch and pitchfork.

I spend alot of time in dog parks, and this past summer I broke up 7 dog attacks - not fights but attacks. Large dog on small dog. 3 times I had blood on my hands and arms. Of these 7 attacks, 3 were Labs, one rottie, one husky, and the other 2 were cross breeds. None looked like bully anything.

Owners of the large dogs that attack claim my dog has never done this before - and I believe that for the most. I have no doubt due to the shock and panic the owners exhibit. Here's the problem, I like to know why the attack happened..

I asked all 7 owners if their dog has squeaky toys - all answer yes.
I asked all 7 owners if their dog destroys squeaky toys - all answer yes.

In 3 of these attacks, I seen what happened leading up to the attack, seen the actual attack and the aftermath. What happens?

Large dog approaches small dog, small dog gets nervous and many small dogs squeak or shriek - one can see the moment the switch flips in the large dogs head, and they see a squeak toy that needs to be terminated. It's not just small dogs either - many large dogs can sound squeaky when excited - and I've seen that stimulate aggression as well in other large dogs.

I wish more people would stop to think about what they are doing to their dogs.

We need DNA testing of EVERY dog that attacks to show what breed or combination of breeds that are doing the attacking. It's fair that the owner of the dog that attacks pays for it.





http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...atal-1.4348090

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4249925

Aunt is a very experienced dog handler. Most problems are owner derived problems...however some dogs are unique insofar as the fight or flight or aggression instinct is far higher. Pitbulls are one as an example. Triggers are usually sudden and can be noise or movement related.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Aunt is a very experienced dog handler. Most problems are owner derived problems...however some dogs are unique insofar as the fight or flight or aggression instinct is far higher. Pitbulls are one as an example. Triggers are usually sudden and can be noise or movement related.

This is similar to my thoughts. I can't stand bleeding hearts who say large and typically aggressive breeds are complete angels and its the solely the fault of owners for why it decided to snap and attack one day. That's just blatant ignorance and a big part of the reason why so many people/animals have been injured/killed by dog attacks. Yes, MOST of a dog's behaviour problems are owner derived. No question about it. But most owners are not capable of training a dog--who has been selectively bred to be prone to aggression when challenged and have a strong fight over flight instinct--to be completely docile. And even then, regardless of how well you train your dog, there is always a chance that something suddenly triggers it to attack. Yes, this can be found in all breeds of dogs, small to large, but I haven't heard of a lot of Shih-Tzu's killing people when they decide to snap. Large breed dogs such as Pitbulls or Rottweilers are capable of that.

Worse yet, it seems like there is some large trend to be "counter-culture" and own a dog like a Pitbull terrier (just search #pitbullmom on Instagram...) just to prove that the dog really is an angel. Then every time they're so blown away and shocked when their dog viciously attacks someone or something.

I love dogs, but I don't foolishly view them as big cuddly creatures and not animals that are capable of being highly dangerous and unpredictable. It's not much more different from owning a firearm. You need to respect it for what it is capable of, and treat it in a way that reflects that. Being ignorant and belligerent is when people get hurt or killed.

[silverdoctor]

So, lets look at Ontario, BSL has been in place for years against pitbulls - yet dogs continue to bite. Look up the stats - Shepherds and Labs are now at the top of the list for bites. Rotties are in the top 5.

Pretty crazy isn't it? So, all of you that own Shepherds and Labradors - is it the dog or the owner?


This is why I say DNA test every dog that attacks - and have the owner of the offending dog pay for it. I'm sure the results will make people think - this walks like a duck mentality doesn't work anymore. Montreal forced BSL using 2 "pitbull" attacks - DNA after the fact showed neither had any bully in them. Pretty sad isn't it.

At any given time in a busy dog park, probably 20 percent of dogs can be called bully breeds - these are the bulldogs, cane corso's, the generic "pitbull" etc and I'm willing to bet at least 10 to 15 percent are the generic "pitbull" or crosses. There are alot of pitties in this city and so far, I haven't met an aggressive one in a dog park yet. Tho I have seen many other breeds showing aggression.

Triggers yeah, lets take the large female chocolate lab that attacked 2 small dogs in the span of 10 minutes in Jackie Parker dog park. Didn't see the first one, but i heard it, got there after the fact. I broke up the second one - not hard to see the instant the trigger happened. The shih-tsu ended up with puncture wounds in the neck and a badly shaken owner.

[Ken07AOVette]

Don't need more rules and legislation, we need a big knife on the hip or in the jeans. Big miserable looking dog walks up the right hand is on the knife left hand forward. Into the eyes or chest if the bastard bites me. Both if possible.
Somehow this will get spun into the CC and OC agenda.

[Sundancefisher]

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160...s-in-the-world

Interesting study on domestication.

Foxes have been breed to be domestic.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Don't need more rules and legislation, we need a big knife on the hip or in the jeans. Big miserable looking dog walks up the right hand is on the knife left hand forward. Into the eyes or chest if the bastard bites me. Both if possible.
Somehow this will get spun into the CC and OC agenda.

Come on Ken, nobody needs a knife "like that" https://youtu.be/iQrLPtr_ikE

Seriously, you don't want a folder unless you are good at opening one with a big dog hanging off your arm, I can't see wandering around with my Buck 119 on my belt... and CPS would have something to say about it. City bylaw says "No person shall carry a knife that is visible in a public place."

ARG

[bucksman]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Don't need more rules and legislation, we need a big knife on the hip or in the jeans. Big miserable looking dog walks up the right hand is on the knife left hand forward. Into the eyes or chest if the bastard bites me. Both if possible.
Somehow this will get spun into the CC and OC agenda.

that big miserable dog probably licks kids faces at home but he gets out and sees you showing aggression, if hes going to bite someone, im betting you are his first choice

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

So, lets look at Ontario, BSL has been in place for years against pitbulls - yet dogs continue to bite. Look up the stats - Shepherds and Labs are now at the top of the list for bites. Rotties are in the top 5.

Ontario enacted BSL in 2005.



Interesting stats.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Ontario enacted BSL in 2005.



Interesting stats.

Statistically no other breed (of the top half of the chart) went up or down too much as a % (proportionately) except the pit-bulls .......... where the pit pulls went down by a significant % which, statically is clear whatever methods they used to "control" pit-bull bites has, without question, has worked effectively and reduced this frequency.

***Despite the list being completely different (the bottom half) as it seems very few breeds are repeated.

Clearly this same "control" was not in place for other breeds.

[raab]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Ontario enacted BSL in 2005.



Interesting stats.

These stats are completely useless without knowing how many of each breed there is in the province. For example there could be 80,000 Labs, and a 1000 Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls would then have a MUCH higher probability of attacking/biting someone.

[AdAMxr]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

This is similar to my thoughts. I can't stand bleeding hearts who say large and typically aggressive breeds are complete angels and its the solely the fault of owners for why it decided to snap and attack one day. That's just blatant ignorance and a big part of the reason why so many people/animals have been injured/killed by dog attacks. Yes, MOST of a dog's behaviour problems are owner derived. No question about it. But most owners are not capable of training a dog--who has been selectively bred to be prone to aggression when challenged and have a strong fight over flight instinct--to be completely docile. And even then, regardless of how well you train your dog, there is always a chance that something suddenly triggers it to attack. Yes, this can be found in all breeds of dogs, small to large, but I haven't heard of a lot of Shih-Tzu's killing people when they decide to snap. Large breed dogs such as Pitbulls or Rottweilers are capable of that.

Worse yet, it seems like there is some large trend to be "counter-culture" and own a dog like a Pitbull terrier (just search #pitbullmom on Instagram...) just to prove that the dog really is an angel. Then every time they're so blown away and shocked when their dog viciously attacks someone or something.

I love dogs, but I don't foolishly view them as big cuddly creatures and not animals that are capable of being highly dangerous and unpredictable. It's not much more different from owning a firearm. You need to respect it for what it is capable of, and treat it in a way that reflects that. Being ignorant and belligerent is when people get hurt or killed.

Hit the nail on the head, I'd just like to add some traits are just present in certain breeds border collies herd, bloodhounds track, labs retrieve, Doberman guard.... unfortunately pit bulls fight

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

Thank you for this information Silver. You’re lucky dog has such an awesome owner. I am happy to say that the squeaky toys my GWP has, which is exactly four scattered throughput the house are all in one piece and hardly every touched. A ball on the other hand usually never leaves his face. All but one are soft balls he could easily pop but never does. I don’t go to dog parks with my dog for a reason and that is because people who don’t fully know their dogs let them loose there. It’s not my dog I’m concerned about as he has been around several other dogs of all sizes and breeds and has done very well.

It’s the owner with the happy trigger finger I’m concerned about unfortunately. I say that figuratively speaking of coarse but I don’t have any issues spilling blood at a moments notice in a given circumstance. .

[silverdoctor]

I'm still surprised at how many people treat aggression as a condition that can be fixed.

Aggression itself is generally a symptom of an underlying issue. Think about this...

i've seen older dogs get aggressive due to a mouthful of rotten teeth, do the dental and the dog comes around. I've had toothaches that drove me to near insanity - imagine having a mouthful of them for years, yeah, I'd be grumpy too.
When the ex's dog became aggressive with people and dogs, that was the last symptom I needed to prove he was hypothyroid - and aggression can be a side effect of untreated hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism can be a side effect of spaying and neutering too young - and the dog can't help it. It's medical, and considering we are a pro spay and neuter society...

Aggression can be a side effect of a fearful dog, frustrated dog, bored dogs, dogs with no leadership that feel the human is theirs and they need to protect the property. Lack of socialization, they don't know how to act and correct wrong behaviors. Deeply insecure dogs are some of the most dangerous. The list goes on and on. Fix the underlying issue, and the aggression will go away.

So for people to say that a dog is just aggressive for no reason, I believe there's always a reason.

Originally Posted by ^v^Tinda wolf^v^

You’re lucky dog has such an awesome owner.

i'm the lucky one... He won't be contained, we miss a day at the park and he's restless. I'd love to own large dogs, less hassles, but it is what it is. It's not just dogs we have to worry about - it's coyotes, eagles, hawks etc are all serious predators to small dogs. I'm thankful when owners approach to let me know predators have been spotted nearby.

[3blade]

I got bit on the leg this year. 6' 200 lbs carrying a pack and bear spray - didn't have time to use it. I had walked past this dog and his owner weekly with zero issue. Some kind of large dog, didn't recognize the breed, same story "he's never done anything like that". Got to spend a week on antibiotics. Been charged by mixed breeds, shepards, labs, aussies, and various little ankle biters over the years, some even after I knew them and their owners quite well. Heck my own (long since deceased) dog even tried snapping at me, once.

My view: ALL dogs should be on a leash if they are off the owners fenced property. You don't EVER know what it's going to do. Off leash areas are a cluster waiting to happen.

Obviously this excludes hunting dogs that are actually hunting.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 3blade

I got bit on the leg this year. 6' 200 lbs carrying a pack and bear spray - didn't have time to use it. I had walked past this dog and his owner weekly with zero issue. Some kind of large dog, didn't recognize the breed, same story "he's never done anything like that". Got to spend a week on antibiotics. Been charged by mixed breeds, shepards, labs, aussies, and various little ankle biters over the years, some even after I knew them and their owners quite well. Heck my own (long since deceased) dog even tried snapping at me, once.

My view: ALL dogs should be on a leash if they are off the owners fenced property. You don't EVER know what it's going to do. Off leash areas are a cluster waiting to happen.

Obviously this excludes hunting dogs that are actually hunting.

You said it right there that off leash areas are a cluster waiting to happen, dogs will be dogs, kinda like bars, sooner or later someone's going to get punched...dogs and people....what a cluster!

[raab]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

Grab your torch and pitchfork.

I spend alot of time in dog parks, and this past summer I broke up 7 dog attacks - not fights but attacks. Large dog on small dog. 3 times I had blood on my hands and arms. Of these 7 attacks, 3 were Labs, one rottie, one husky, and the other 2 were cross breeds. None looked like bully anything.

Owners of the large dogs that attack claim my dog has never done this before - and I believe that for the most. I have no doubt due to the shock and panic the owners exhibit. Here's the problem, I like to know why the attack happened..

I asked all 7 owners if their dog has squeaky toys - all answer yes.
I asked all 7 owners if their dog destroys squeaky toys - all answer yes.

In 3 of these attacks, I seen what happened leading up to the attack, seen the actual attack and the aftermath. What happens?

Large dog approaches small dog, small dog gets nervous and many small dogs squeak or shriek - one can see the moment the switch flips in the large dogs head, and they see a squeak toy that needs to be terminated. It's not just small dogs either - many large dogs can sound squeaky when excited - and I've seen that stimulate aggression as well in other large dogs.

I wish more people would stop to think about what they are doing to their dogs.

We need DNA testing of EVERY dog that attacks to show what breed or combination of breeds that are doing the attacking. It's fair that the owner of the dog that attacks pays for it.





http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...atal-1.4348090

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4249925

The problem isnt the dogs, its the idiots who designed the dog park and owners. Large dogs and small dogs should be separated at the dog park because small dogs can instigate the prey drive in large dogs if they haven't been exposed. So dont get mad at the big dog whos just doing what any other dog would do if not properly trained.

The other problem with dog parks is that some dogs are very possessive/territorial and are just not meant to be socialized without a leash on. If you have a possessive dog with it food or toys,I HIGHLY recommend you DONT take it to the dog park. So that could be where you chew toys come into play.