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09-05-2020, 10:33 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
I have no underlying health conditions. Out of a population of well over 4 million, 6 people without underlying health conditions have succumbed to the vid. I like my chances
Fall in line!
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I’m falling in agreement with your take on this.
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An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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09-06-2020, 09:55 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b
No I’m asking an honest question from my outdoor enthusiast peers is all.
The chicken pox vaccine came out in 1984 and was 25 years in the making.
Myself, I’m uneasy about a fast tracked vaccine that could be commissioned in mere months. My question is honest and I’m being sincere. No baiting.
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Good question.
With very limited resources...one guy isolated a strain of live attenuated varicella virus. Technology was very limited and it took a while to adapt it to guinea pigs and then human cultures.
Even with scientific knowledge being hugely inferior comparing 1965 to 2020...he was able to make the first vaccine in 5 years. In 1972...he was in trials.
Fast forward to 2020...and all the different labs working on the same vaccine goal and sharing data...and all the billions of dollars pouring into it..and all the massive leaps in technology and vaccine research....
Yup...fast tracking to 12-18 months is possible. It took him many, many years to just get a virus sample to research on. That came in days for Covid19 because of shared information and improved technology and know how.
It also helps to speed up when phase data one looks great and they continue to phase two by running both phase at the same time to finish getting all data. Then phase two looks great and they start phase three and run both together to get all data. Then phase three is looking great and the start phase 4. And so on.
What that means is all the data gets crunched. Nothing is missed.
I would say that the humans in phased trials are more at risk...however mitigated by scientific understanding of the information received by the prior trial and past knowledge of such processes.
The end result is the same vetted process to you or I getting a vaccine derived from said process.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
Last edited by Sundancefisher; 09-06-2020 at 10:02 AM.
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09-06-2020, 10:20 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Fast forward to 2020...and all the different labs working on the same vaccine goal and sharing data...and all the billions of dollars pouring into it..and all the massive leaps in technology and vaccine research....
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Absolutely!
This is going to change vaccines forever, much like the leaps and bounds in technology that followed WW2 - especially in aviation (think NASA).
Ultimately there will be an enormous net-positive to this whole thing in the years to come.
Personally I won't be rushing out right away to get it but more so because I'm healthy & not in a vulnerable group. Those people should get it first. Ultimately I will though.
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09-06-2020, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,271
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Most important point is who will get vaccine first. Health care workers, elderly, wealthy?? Been described like airplane emergency, when masks fall down.
Put on mask so you can help kids etc, or only those in first class will get masks.
Trump shared the N95 masks with us, no he restricted 3M from exporting contracted masks to Canada.
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09-06-2020, 02:23 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Camrose,Ab
Posts: 995
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maybe
i will be in no rush to get a Vaccine and if it is made mandatory I will be looking for the best human rights Lawyer around !
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Do you mind holden the wheel while i Rockout: Posts contain no guarantee of correct spelling or proper grammar. Whenever you correct somone's grammar Just remeber that nobody likes you .
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09-06-2020, 03:09 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf
Most important point is who will get vaccine first. Health care workers, elderly, wealthy?? Been described like airplane emergency, when masks fall down.
Put on mask so you can help kids etc, or only those in first class will get masks.
Trump shared the N95 masks with us, no he restricted 3M from exporting contracted masks to Canada.
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Health care workers will be the first to receive a vaccine when it becomes available.
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09-07-2020, 09:25 AM
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Suspended User
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Innisfail
Posts: 1,073
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The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.
Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
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09-07-2020, 10:11 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 396
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I am 82 next month, so you are saying, kill us off, OK. LOL. I am saying this in the way it was provided, OK!!! I mean nothing by it, but you are going to miss us when we are gone. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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09-07-2020, 11:15 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Perdue SK
Posts: 1,570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDave
The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.
Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
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Why don't you put an egg in your shoe and beat it?
Free (and planning to outlive you all)
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09-07-2020, 11:21 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: GP AB
Posts: 16,246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDave
The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.
Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
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https://youtu.be/DwD7f5ZWhAk
I'm only 53, I don't think I'm going to jump either. This is not my sort of thing.....
__________________
'Once the monkeys learn they can vote themselves a banana, they'll never climb another tree.'. Robert Heinlein
'You can accomplish a lot more with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.' Al Capone
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09-07-2020, 12:04 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Not a chance - in my age bracket 2 have succumbed to Covid out of 4.5million ish people in Alberta. That if my maths correct is a 0.000047% chance of dying. Even if you are the average age Of Ab deaths of 83 That’s approx 0.005% chance of succumbing to Covid and how many that have passed A severe cold would or did take them out.
When the H1N1 scare was on my wife a 2 daughters took the vaccine
Up until then my wife very rarely got sick- right after receiving the vaccine my wife a daughter’s got extremely sick and continued to get sick for some time after, me no vaccine and not sick.....
How many people young and old have either taken there lives or had their financial positions ruined from this lock down? I’m thinking the true number would make you puke.
On the other side some families that don’t normally make much money they are enjoying the Cerb $$,s and would love to see the country stay locked down indefinitely.
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09-07-2020, 02:02 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K45
Not a chance - in my age bracket 2 have succumbed to Covid out of 4.5million ish people in Alberta. That if my maths correct is a 0.000047% chance of dying. Even if you are the average age Of Ab deaths of 83 That’s approx 0.005% chance of succumbing to Covid and how many that have passed A severe cold would or did take them out.
When the H1N1 scare was on my wife a 2 daughters took the vaccine
Up until then my wife very rarely got sick- right after receiving the vaccine my wife a daughter’s got extremely sick and continued to get sick for some time after, me no vaccine and not sick.....
How many people young and old have either taken there lives or had their financial positions ruined from this lock down? I’m thinking the true number would make you puke.
On the other side some families that don’t normally make much money they are enjoying the Cerb $$,s and would love to see the country stay locked down indefinitely.
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Actually. If you want to use math it would be the number dead out of the number infected in your age bracket.
Social distancing and masks are preventing additional deaths...even in your age bracket.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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09-07-2020, 02:30 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver County
Posts: 180
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How many people have died "with" covid as opposed to "of" covid? Two very important little prepositions.
So much misinformation from all sources. Impossible to know who to trust. Understandable that many of us trust no one, anymore.
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09-07-2020, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhorse Ranch
How many people have died "with" covid as opposed to "of" covid? Two very important little prepositions.
So much misinformation from all sources. Impossible to know who to trust. Understandable that many of us trust no one, anymore.
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Exactly. Can’t make a vaccine for influenza that works properly, can’t cure cancer but they can make a vaccine in 6 months for a virus they don’t understand. Laughable.....
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An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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09-07-2020, 03:03 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDave
The odds of it becoming available to us are slim. If it passes trials, there isn't going to be sufficient quantities. Add in the lack of medical vials and the priority system... Not like America will share with anyone, nor will most other countries.
Besides that, I would if it makes it to me in the next decade. Overall that natural immunity thing will be the best option, as it will remove the elderly and the weak. Mother Nature is doing a cleansing that's over due. Save the CPP for us younger people by killing off the old farts, and free up space in the senior's homes. Enough cranky old people around that we can spare some of them, right?
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I can't tell if you are serious, but I'm not sure where your dislike of seniors stems from, or what you mean by saving CPP for "us younger people". You do realize that the money in the CPP was contributed by those who were/are working. This isn't a freebie, as people have been paying into it since 1965. It's no different than putting monthly contributions into a savings account, people are merely getting back some of the cash that they have contributed over their lifetime.
Your comment would be akin to somebody posting "Save the AISH money for those who are young, healthy and able to work. Let mother kill off the ones who can't/don't work and free up some cash for those who do." SMH.
And I'm a longs ways off from collecting.
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09-07-2020, 03:34 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HVA7mm
I can't tell if you are serious, but I'm not sure where your dislike of seniors stems from, or what you mean by saving CPP for "us younger people". You do realize that the money in the CPP was contributed by those who were/are working. This isn't a freebie, as people have been paying into it since 1965. It's no different than putting monthly contributions into a savings account, people are merely getting back some of the cash that they have contributed over their lifetime.
Your comment would be akin to somebody posting "Save the AISH money for those who are young, healthy and able to work. Let mother kill off the ones who can't/don't work and free up some cash for those who do." SMH.
And I'm a longs ways off from collecting.
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Having read alot of his posts, I’m fairly certain he is being sarcastic lol
__________________
An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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09-07-2020, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b
Exactly. Can’t make a vaccine for influenza that works properly, can’t cure cancer but they can make a vaccine in 6 months for a virus they don’t understand. Laughable.....
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You need a better basic understanding of the science behind your post.
Firstly some viruses change into new strains. In some cases the changes are significant enough to the virus design that you can’t find one weak spot to exploit because it will change by the time a vaccine is developed.
Cancer is not the same as a virus. In fact some viruses and bacteria may cause cancer. Cancer is a change to the DNA in your cells that cause rapid growth and replication.
Viruses are foreign bodies that invade your cells.
To compare curing cancer to finding a vaccine is disconcerting to think you are basing life choices on what you just don’t understand and at the same time spreading your misinformation online that could unfortunately sway others.
You posted early about the chicken pox vaccine and I explained that for your better understanding. You didn’t respond however I assume you gained some insight.
As there are key scientific understandings you lack I would suggest reading authentic sights that explain something better. I fear you are getting information from click bait sites, conspiracy pages and heresay from equally unknowledgeable people.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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09-07-2020, 04:05 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K45
How many people young and old have either taken there lives
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There was an article at Reuters a few days ago: U.S. coronavirus deaths projected to more than double to 410,000 by January
You can read the whole thing, by here is a direct quote from the article:
Although U.S. infections have declined to around 45,000 per day from a peak of around 70,000 per day in July, COVID-19 was the second leading cause of death, the institute said. That would place it behind only heart disease, having surpassed cancer as a cause of death in the United States.
The second cause of death in the US. Probably has potential to become the first.
Also interesting in regards to their forecast, they have been on the low side from the beginning more often than not and that’s the reason Trump had cited this particular model in his “predictions”. For example, their forecast back in April-May for the total number of deaths that would be reached in August was met at the end of May or beginning of June, just under or over 100K (I don’t recall exactly). I don’t have a source for that but that was my personal observation. Also, think of it as that’s 100,000 just 3 months ago and they are currently close to a double of that number. The article mentions that the IHME model has usually been pretty conservative with its forecasts.
Also interesting that according to WHO, 290,000-650,000 die of flu- related causes every year worldwide ( source, if interested). I highlighted “related” because I am assuming not all of them died directly from running nose, but probably of some complications that were caused by the influenza virus, perhaps due to preexisting conditions and whatnot.
If the forecast of the model materializes, the United States alone will have more Covid-related mortalities in 10-11 months than the whole world’s average flu-related deaths in a year. That’s with a few months’ worth of lockdown and, while pretty open now, life still not being back to “normal”. The numbers are pretty staggering.
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09-07-2020, 04:14 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: A bit North o' Center...
Posts: 11,158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
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One of the most classic scenes in the series.
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09-07-2020, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b
Having read alot of his posts, I’m fairly certain he is being sarcastic lol
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Ha ha ha, ok. I'm surprised, usually I pick up on sarcasm a mile or two away, must be having an off day.
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09-07-2020, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: At the lake
Posts: 2,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Actually. If you want to use math it would be the number dead out of the number infected in your age bracket.
Social distancing and masks are preventing additional deaths...even in your age bracket.
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I've been noticing that many have been using interesting math for their arguments.
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09-07-2020, 09:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9
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Tough call
Tough call. Not feeling very comfortable with a vaccine being rushed so fast. It will be a tough call when it’s time. I’m not sure I would take it if it was available today.
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09-07-2020, 09:50 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 9
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Math
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
I've been noticing that many have been using interesting math for their arguments.
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I particularly don’t like the math where the mortality rate is the total deaths over confirmed cases. There are a lot more actual COVID cases than the confirmed cases. And plenty of ways estimate the number of actual cases.
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09-07-2020, 10:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer80
I particularly don’t like the math where the mortality rate is the total deaths over confirmed cases. There are a lot more actual COVID cases than the confirmed cases. And plenty of ways estimate the number of actual cases.
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And also people compare to only recorded flu cases. And there is already a vaccine for the worst flu.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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09-07-2020, 10:52 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the woods
Posts: 8,923
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Nope, I don’t plan to. Most vaccines need years and years of trials. They’re ram tossing this thing through and I fear the cure will end up being worse than the illness to start. Given some time I probably still won’t get it but I’d the option i there for folks and it’s properly vetted.
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I feel I was denied, critical, need to know Information!
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09-08-2020, 12:04 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
Actually. If you want to use math it would be the number dead out of the number infected in your age bracket.
Social distancing and masks are preventing additional deaths...even in your age bracket.
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Nobody knows the number of infected in any age bracket.
As for the rest, got a link to proof of that? Or is that your opinion? lol
Fall in line
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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09-08-2020, 12:06 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Caroline
Posts: 7,274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott h
I've been noticing that many have been using interesting math for their arguments.
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6 people out of 4.5 million. What's your calculator tell you that percentage is?
Waiting....
Fall in line
__________________
Two reasons you may think CO2 is a pollutant
1.You weren't paying attention in grade 5
2. You're stupid
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09-08-2020, 08:09 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood Park Ab
Posts: 6,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher
You need a better basic understanding of the science behind your post.
Firstly some viruses change into new strains. In some cases the changes are significant enough to the virus design that you can’t find one weak spot to exploit because it will change by the time a vaccine is developed.
Cancer is not the same as a virus. In fact some viruses and bacteria may cause cancer. Cancer is a change to the DNA in your cells that cause rapid growth and replication.
Viruses are foreign bodies that invade your cells.
To compare curing cancer to finding a vaccine is disconcerting to think you are basing life choices on what you just don’t understand and at the same time spreading your misinformation online that could unfortunately sway others.
You posted early about the chicken pox vaccine and I explained that for your better understanding. You didn’t respond however I assume you gained some insight.
As there are key scientific understandings you lack I would suggest reading authentic sights that explain something better. I fear you are getting information from click bait sites, conspiracy pages and heresay from equally unknowledgeable people.
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I understand the strain dealio. That’s why I never ran to get in line for the flu shot. How do they know from year to year which strain of flu will be prevalent? They never do so it’s pretty much a placebo make you feel good in your head kinda thing. Meh....
__________________
An awful lot of big game was killed with the .30-06 including the big bears before everyone became affluent enough to own a rifle for every species of game they might hunt.
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09-08-2020, 08:21 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899b
I understand the strain dealio. That’s why I never ran to get in line for the flu shot. How do they know from year to year which strain of flu will be prevalent? They never do so it’s pretty much a placebo make you feel good in your head kinda thing. Meh....
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Maybe you don’t. The strains are tracked and most deadly and common are made into vaccines.
Some people get a flu after a shot and think it didn’t work however may of missed getting the worse ones and instead only caught a mild one.
Some of the vaccines to date may of in fact had some similarities to Covid19 which allowed for some immune response. Studies are on going.
Needless to say however once again you are misinformed about vaccines.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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09-08-2020, 08:30 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Calgary Perchdance
Posts: 18,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi
Nobody knows the number of infected in any age bracket.
As for the rest, got a link to proof of that? Or is that your opinion? lol
Fall in line
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Yes,..yet sadly you won’t read it
Easy read one.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent
Can we leave it to you to understand how social distancing prevents spread?
And you are very correct that everyday more is learned about Covid19 from long term lung and heart damage even in mild cases to treatments.
Some people make a permanent judgement opinion based upon a quote from January that was retracted after further evidence in April.
People will find conspiracy sites on use the quotes they like and never backtrack and instead double down.
__________________
It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust to the changing environment in which it finds itself. Charles Darwin
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