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Old 07-19-2021, 12:39 PM
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Off in the Bushes Off in the Bushes is offline
 
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Default FFP Vs.SFP

So what are the pros and cons for first focal plane vs second focal plane rifle scopes?
What application would you choose one over the other?
I’m still looking for the right scope for my .22 and I want to buy once and cry once and be happy forever. 😎
I’d like to be able to zero at 50m but be adaptable to shoot 150m without guessing the hold over.
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  #2  
Old 07-19-2021, 12:50 PM
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First focal plane is only really advantageous for reticles that have mil or moa hash marks for aiming. The hash marks are valid at any magnification so you don’t need to be fully zoomed in to use them.

The reticle shrinks and expands as you change the power. At low power some poorly designed reticle are almost impossible to use and see.

In sfp the hash marks are only valid at max power and the reticle should always be bold and clear in the brush however you can only use the hash marks for elevation correction at max power.

That’s the jist of it but others can expand from here. Lots of good YouTube videos on the subject with visual explanations which might help.
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  #3  
Old 07-19-2021, 06:47 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is offline
 
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Most of the higher magnification FFP scopes are useless to me because below about 8 power the reticle is so small my old eyes can’t see it.
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Old 07-20-2021, 05:51 AM
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First focal plane, that 150 yd shot can be made using the reticle hash marks at any power. The reticle grows as the power goes up and the hash marks are always accurate.

Second focal plane you will have to turn the scope to the power setting the scope hash marks are accurate at (usually max power). This is because the reticle doesn't grow when the power goes up.

Draw back for first focal plane is the reticle gets tiny at lower powers. Draw back for second focal plane is that the hash marks are only accurate at one power setting. Pick your poison.
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Old 07-20-2021, 06:28 AM
Dubious Dubious is offline
 
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Get 2fp 1fp is not useful on low power you won’t really be able to see much. There’s tons of apps out there these days like sterloc pro that really make it easy and you can ignore the common complaint of 2fp only works on full power. Your also shooting 22lr we shoot gophers pretty regularly with 22 cal rifles, after 100m wind and inconsistent ammo makes shots unreliable and squirrelly everyone uses some variation of a standard 3-9 with hash marks like a Burris fullfield 2 usually permanently set on 5 power amd some variation of bull ammo like the golden bucket, longest shot on a gopher this year was 139m it took more than one shot to do.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2021, 07:02 AM
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FFP has been described well.

SFP is usually accurate for ranging on its highest magnification setting. Bushnell made one that was in the middle of its range at one time. When you get into a good scope that is SFP with a decent reticle then the marks can be used at different mag levels. For example my Nightforce 5.5 x 22 scope is SFP. Mil scope, each hash mark is one mil at 22x. When you drop the magnification to 11x the hash mark will be 2 mil, 5.5x then goes to 4 mil. More calculations involved doing it this way. Need to verify your mag settings on scope for accuracy.
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  #7  
Old 07-20-2021, 07:13 AM
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I have moved to a FFP optic on my main gopher and target 22 and I love it! Its a 4-16 and for everyday gopher shooting it sits somewhere around 8 power though for target or a real tricky gopher I will turn it up. The hashmarks are amazingly useful for adjusting for wind and are a great upgrade from the previous method of "hold a gopher left" or "aim about 2 inches right"
Only downside I see is it gives me false confidence that I can hit gophers way past the effective range of the cheap ammo I'm shooting. At least once an outing you will find me poking at a gopher over 200 yards away just to see if I can.
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  #8  
Old 07-20-2021, 09:49 AM
wallz wallz is offline
 
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I am in the process of going all FFP after using only SF scopes. I have found no hinderances in my uses at all, and almost all of them are using the "mil" instead of "moa". Again that is a mute point, unless you are trying to convert from one to the other. I don't use the hash marks for measurement tho, as I have a great pair of range binos I use for that duty.

The scope I'm currently using for my 22 is the Primary Arms GLX line. 4-16x50 with illuminated mil dot reticle.
Tracks supper awesome, with repeatable movements, and using a 20 moa rail and 20 moa on the scope rings it was easy to dial up to 300 yards, and still had more to go.
Very nice locking dials, with zero stops with nice metal inner parts, down to 25 yard parallax, and decently clear optics. They even come with the scope caps already in the box.

I may be talking into selling it, as I want to upgrade it to more zoom, to use with the new 22 I am saving to build.
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2021, 10:44 AM
Back Country Hunter Back Country Hunter is offline
 
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For the simplest setup for what you are wanting to do I would recommend a FFP scope with a graduated reticle, it is a simple setup that is always ready to use at whatever power you are set at. Something else that is important to me in a scope is to have adjustable parallax, especially if shooting from different positions in the field. I have 2 Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP scopes mounted on .22 rifles and they work well for what I use them for. I find myself using the reticle hash marks more and more for shooting different distances rather than dialing the scope. It is fast and accurate to make adjustments, particularly if the wind changes suddenly which has a big effect on .22 bullets at longer distances. As you start making hits at longer distances you will find it is a little bit addicting so you might as well get a 20 moa rail right away as well.
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2021, 10:59 AM
wallz wallz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes View Post
So what are the pros and cons for first focal plane vs second focal plane rifle scopes?
What application would you choose one over the other?
I’m still looking for the right scope for my .22 and I want to buy once and cry once and be happy forever. 😎
I’d like to be able to zero at 50m but be adaptable to shoot 150m without guessing the hold over.
I had to come back to this one. LOL.

Mid tier cryer would be the Nightforce NX8 or the Eotech vudu. Right in that $2600 range plus taxes.

If you wanted to go to a cry for a long time, money to spend: go up to the Khales: K318i, Zero Compromise 420, or the Tangent Thetta line ups.

$mid 4.5K and up for those, but you would fore ever be happy, without much room to grow for a loooooong time.

I have really wanted to try out the vudu, so I have been researching this for a while. Not just for the 22, but my big boomer set up as well.

I'm an estimator, so I am used to searching online for these things and dreaming big, as I'm a numbers guy. If its out there and available I can find it.

Let us know your $$ range, and we can suggest for you. I love spending someone's money.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2021, 08:55 PM
270person 270person is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallz View Post
I had to come back to this one. LOL.

Mid tier cryer would be the Nightforce NX8 or the Eotech vudu. Right in that $2600 range plus taxes.

If you wanted to go to a cry for a long time, money to spend: go up to the Khales: K318i, Zero Compromise 420, or the Tangent Thetta line ups.

$mid 4.5K and up for those, but you would fore ever be happy, without much room to grow for a loooooong time.

I have really wanted to try out the vudu, so I have been researching this for a while. Not just for the 22, but my big boomer set up as well.

I'm an estimator, so I am used to searching online for these things and dreaming big, as I'm a numbers guy. If its out there and available I can find it.

Let us know your $$ range, and we can suggest for you. I love spending someone's money.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/image...shakeshout.gif

I'm feeling pretty insignificant now with my lowly Leupold Rimfire scopes.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2021, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallz View Post
I had to come back to this one. LOL.

Mid tier cryer would be the Nightforce NX8 or the Eotech vudu. Right in that $2600 range plus taxes.

If you wanted to go to a cry for a long time, money to spend: go up to the Khales: K318i, Zero Compromise 420, or the Tangent Thetta line ups.

$mid 4.5K and up for those, but you would fore ever be happy, without much room to grow for a loooooong time.

I have really wanted to try out the vudu, so I have been researching this for a while. Not just for the 22, but my big boomer set up as well.

I'm an estimator, so I am used to searching online for these things and dreaming big, as I'm a numbers guy. If its out there and available I can find it.

Let us know your $$ range, and we can suggest for you. I love spending someone's money.
http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/image...shakeshout.gif
That term diminished returns seem to resonate with me when I see scopes likes Nightforce, Khales, Tangent and Thetta, Schmit and Bender etc. They are all great glass but I don’t have the eye to see the improvements in glass and clarity etc at that level when compared to lower high quality glass.
Some of the research has lead to not buying a MOA scope with mil dot reticle but a MRAD with mildot. Less calculating involved.
I am getting totally lost in the paradox of choice. It’s allot of money to be spending and I want to get it right but am frozen by paralysis by analysis.
I think get a scope with elevation turrets on a zero stop and just use the Nikon App to set the height changes.
Current budget is around $1000 but could justify up $1400 for the right glass.
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:17 AM
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That budget should put you into some good choices, but hard to pick the ONE.
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:18 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Just picked up a Sightron S-tac3 4-16x42 mrad FFP, illum ret, ( SKU 26017) for under 1000Cdn. Even at low power the reticle is comfortably visible, and the illumination works well for low lite. Been checking it off the porch at different times of day the last few days. Pretty pleased with it.
Am still awaiting US export permit & shipment on a Tract Optics 4-20x50 Toric UHD, that one is about 2000.00 Cdn w/rings and a level on the order. It's bulit on a 50mm LOW chassis w/German glass, see how it works out. They are direct ship from mfgr only, but have been getting very good reviews, and are built on good chassis, with good glass.
If you are looking for one that may well work well for a .22, that Sightron would likely be a good one for it, or perhaps a Delta Javelin, which is a 4.5-30x56 but, it'll run ya about 13-1400 in Canada. There are a lot of choices out there, but if you pick carefully, there are some good deals out there.
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  #15  
Old 07-29-2021, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes View Post
So what are the pros and cons for first focal plane vs second focal plane rifle scopes?
What application would you choose one over the other?
I’m still looking for the right scope for my .22 and I want to buy once and cry once and be happy forever. 😎
I’d like to be able to zero at 50m but be adaptable to shoot 150m without guessing the hold over.
I can get you behind a Bushnell Elite Tactical 6-24x50 and a Sightron S3 6-24x50 if you like, both FFP scopes. PM me if your interested.
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:14 AM
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Personally I am not a big fan of FFP scopes (too busy). If you are shooting fast moving targets (hogs and such) I would vote FFP. For your average shot at a standing target like a gopher @100yards or less I would choose SFP. The target is small, If you miss it is pretty easy to hold half a gopher into the wind. You don't need to count the whiskers on the gophers chin to be able to make ethical shoots out to 100 yards or a bit better, so a good fixed power 6x scope is really all you need. Now if your making shoots on steel for the cash, at extreme range (100yards plus) then I can see the advantages of a FFP scope with a useable reticule.

Good luck in your search. I am starting to get into ELR with the .22 and feel your pain but if your only using this scope to a 100 yards or less then consider a fixed 6x with a nice reticule (fine x hair or small target dot).
All gopher hunting occurs during full sun, so being able to see ones cross hair in the dark is irrelevant.

I did see an ad on utube for a scope which uses both a FFP and a SFP incorporated into one scope. It had a regular FFP reticule which also used something similar to a red dot for the SFP. Not sure how or if it works but they are out there.
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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Old 07-29-2021, 09:38 AM
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Default Just read this in Field and Stream article

For the longest time, “rimfire” + “scope” just meant crappy. The glass was poor. The adjustments were spotty. Drop one or get it really wet, and the scope was toast. But that’s changing fast. Today, some shooters put optics on their rimfires that cost two or three times the price of the rifle. (One of the most popular scopes at the NRL22 Nationals held in May in Las Vegas cost $4,000!) There are still some cheap, low-quality rimfire scopes out there, but there are also some high-end, first-rate options. It’s no surprise that the number one point of confusion for shooters who are new to rimfire competitions is optics.

But here’s the secret: Whether you need a new rimfire scope for competition or hunting, most quality centerfire scopes will do. Some are better suited for small-bore work than others, but you don’t need to spend a college semester figuring out what’s good. When shopping for your next rimfire scope, boil the features down to the following five specs, listed in order of importance, then check out our recommendations below, which range from $174 to, yes, that 34mm, $4,000 tube.
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Trades I would interested in:
- Sightron rifle scopes, 4.5x14x42mm or 4x16x42mm
especially! with the HHR reticle. (no duplex pls.)
- older 6x fixed scopes with fine X or target dot.
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