Chesapeake retriever Question

[madman]

Hello, I'm looking for some opinions from the experienced hunting dog owners and breeders familiar with Chesapeakes or similar on when to neuter my hunting buddy. He's 8 months and 70lbs. He isn't papered and won't be used for breeding. So far he is pretty chill and isn't aggressive with other dogs or people. Nelson is playful and hasn't been displaying any dominance. From what I have read, I should wait until he's fully developed physically, which would be around 16-18 months. Does this sound right? I want him to have a full life with the less chance of disease down the road. He's my first dog.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,

Mad

[FinnDawg]

I don't own a hunting dog but most dogs you can neuter after six months. Ask your veterinarian.

[kingrat]

I was told to wait a year when I got my lab

[arrow dog]

Congrats on getting a chessie. They're great companions. We've always had Chesapeakes, bred them , trialed them, shown them, hunted with them. Strongly advise neutering your pup before two years. Two reasons; chessies tend to become more dominant with other dogs as they mature(even the females) and biggest reason of all is the high rate of testicular cancer in male dogs now(not just the chesapeake breed). He will have less tendency to roam and won't start peeing all over the place marking his territory. Just my opinion after experiences over the years.

[tatonka2]

I bred Chessies for many years. My vet advised neutering before a dog goes through puberty (around 6 to 8 months of age). If a dog is neutered too young, it can affect their growth. They grow too fast and get larger than they would if they were not neutered (that's one reason calves are neutered). If you wait too long, your dog will still exhibit many of the traits of a dog that hasn't been neutered (turning up his leg on tires, mounting things, etc.). A dog may still mount things after they are neutered...every dog is different, but a neutered male just makes for a better companion in most all respects. My daughter's dog was neutered when he was around 7 months old. He still squats to pee like a female does and he's 7 years old.

[Diesel_wiesel]

the vet in Melville sk has a registered male Chesapeake bay retriever
I take my female to see him as well
with talking to him , he wont be using his dog for breeding
but he wont neuter him until he is 32 months old minimum
he said because of hormones and growth issues,

[3blade]

Originally Posted by madman

Hello, I'm looking for some opinions from the experienced hunting dog owners and breeders familiar with Chesapeakes or similar on when to neuter my hunting buddy. He's 8 months and 70lbs. He isn't papered and won't be used for breeding. So far he is pretty chill and isn't aggressive with other dogs or people. Nelson is playful and hasn't been displaying any dominance. From what I have read, I should wait until he's fully developed physically, which would be around 16-18 months. Does this sound right? I want him to have a full life with the less chance of disease down the road. He's my first dog.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,

Mad

I think you are on the right track. A dog used for hunting needs strong muscles, connective tissues and bones. If he isn't showing any issues, let him develop.

Side note on vets: the majority don't understand hunting needs, don't care, or are outright anti-hunting. all of this neuter and spay talk comes from preventing unwanted puppies and producing lap dogs. Not relevant for a dog who's job is pounding through cold water and carrying geese on the way back.

As far as testicular cancer, yes it happens but if you cut them off there's a 100 % chance of endocrine problems. May be noticeable, may not be, for a few years anyway. Dogs are a lot tougher than we give them credit for and often don't show physical symptoms until they are very sick. Hypothyroid, poor immune function, diabetes, poor coat development, prone to injury...that's what endocrine disruption can do.

[Sneeze]

I will never understand our cultures fascination with disfiguring our pets with expensive surgery.

If you are committed to being a responsible dog owner you should take the $500 dollars the vet wants from you and throw it into the wind.

It will be easier on the dog.

I still have mine and I don't bite strangers, mount every female I come across and mark things in the house. I did when I was younger but it was a short stage that I grew out of. I am glad nobody took mine, I quite like them.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

I will never understand our cultures fascination with disfiguring our pets with expensive surgery.

If you are committed to being a responsible dog owner you should take the $500 dollars the vet wants from you and throw it into the wind.

It will be easier on the dog.

I still have mine and I don't bite strangers, mount every female I come across and mark things in the house. I did when I was younger but it was a short stage that I grew out of. I am glad nobody took mine, I quite like them.

lol atta boy sneeze lol

I think MOST guys on here know I run a Chessie so ill try and offer some insight.

Chesapeakes are slower developing dogs versus your standard lab or golden. They take longer to mature mentally and physically. I do agree that Chesapeakes 9 times out of 10, as they mature, inherently become the 'alpha dogs'. Its just bred into them, but at the same time that's kind of the legendary allure to a Chesapeake. I currently have a 4 year old intact male. He wont be losing his nuts, ever. Id recommend letting his testosterone develop him, as I firmly believe you will have a more confident field dog and dog in general.

I will openly object to claims that they become 'aggressive' or hard headed. My intact male is the kindest, gentlest dog ive ever seen around kids and people. Where he WILL drop his balls on the table and assert himself is when other male dogs, often off leash and not in control of by their owners, come strolling up with their tails high in the air while he's heeling at my side. Gunner has an invisible 6 foot safe space while I'm out working him/training him. Best behaved dog on the planet, unless another wanna be alpha enters that safe space without my consent.....and then its like a an angry Doberman on an armed robber. But again, that's what theyre bred for. So in the end, id say let em be.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

lol atta boy sneeze lol

I think MOST guys on here know I run a Chessie so ill try and offer some insight.

Chesapeakes are slower developing dogs versus your standard lab or golden. They take longer to mature mentally and physically. I do agree that Chesapeakes 9 times out of 10, as they mature, inherently become the 'alpha dogs'. Its just bred into them, but at the same time that's kind of the legendary allure to a Chesapeake. I currently have a 4 year old intact male. He wont be losing his nuts, ever. Id recommend letting his testosterone develop him, as I firmly believe you will have a more confident field dog and dog in general.

I will openly object to claims that they become 'aggressive' or hard headed. My intact male is the kindest, gentlest dog ive ever seen around kids and people. Where he WILL drop his balls on the table and assert himself is when other male dogs, often off leash and not in control of by their owners, come strolling up with their tails high in the air while he's heeling at my side. Gunner has an invisible 6 foot safe space while I'm out working him/training him. Best behaved dog on the planet, unless another wanna be alpha enters that safe space without my consent.....and then its like a an angry Doberman on an armed robber. But again, that's what theyre bred for. So in the end, id say let em be.

Wow; They are bred to be bird dogs not fighting or attack dogs. Seldom a trip to the dog park or release site doesn't result in at least one dog coming up for a visit. If my dog attacked another dog or person because it was inside his "invisible" comfort zone it would be his last trip out. If someone's dog attacked my dogs while walking, the owner better have a good vet and lawyer.

Any animal will protect its owner and property to a certain extent but aggressive animals are the insecurity of the owner not a representation of the breed. And yes I have had Chessys and have one now. He was neutered as soon as he started acting stupid.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Wow; They are bred to be bird dogs not fighting or attack dogs. Seldom a trip to the dog park or release site doesn't result in at least one dog coming up for a visit. If my dog attacked another dog or person because it was inside his "invisible" comfort zone it would be his last trip out. If someone's dog attacked my dogs while walking, the owner better have a good vet and lawyer.

Any animal will protect its owner and property to a certain extent but aggressive animals are the insecurity of the owner not a representation of the breed. And yes I have had Chessys and have one now. He was neutered as soon as he started acting stupid.

You intentionally read past the details bud.

Chesapeakes were bred to act as guard dogs along with working retrievers. This is fact. And a properly bred Chesapeake maintains an authoritarian demeanor. Mine would never attack a human, or a dog. It would defend his space against uncontrolled dogs asserting dominance. Again, you read past the details, on purpose. Ive had one issue in 4 years. An offleash male dog, tail high up in the air, that decided he would further his point by doing the old my head is to be rested on top of your head because I'm the boss - routine. This was after I vocally instructed the owner to recall their dog as mine was busy training/working - with dummies at my feet, as my dog was heeling by my side and glued to my hip. If youre dog waddled up to my dog, while my dog was under control by myself while yours was off leash and not within arm lengths of you, you bet you better have a good lawyer man as that's negligence. As far as insecurities....youre trolling as I have no idea what that even means. But carry on

If I didn't articulate it well enough, my apologies.

[Diesel_wiesel]

[QUOTE=wildside2014;3455186]You intentionally read past the details bud.

Chesapeakes were bred to act as guard dogs along with working retrievers. This is fact. And a properly bred Chesapeake maintains an authoritarian demeanor. QUOTE]

look up the history of the Chesapeake bay retriever
yes they were not only bred for waterfowl / hunting dogs during the time of commercial hunting along the Chesapeake bay but as well were used to guard their owners property , and their daily take, while the dogs were left at the dock and their owners went up to the market to find a sale for their daily take
THIS IS FACT
if you own a certain breed of dog
it is usually to your best interest to know and educate yerself on the breed about its history, its original, uses (as many in todays society are lost and not pursued or used)and temperament
but putting all that to the side it is also your responsibility to be a good and responsible pet owner and do your best to avoid the crap that insecure and
irresponsible pet owners shovel out with untrained and out of control pets
am I right or wrong on this ????

[wildside2014]

[QUOTE=Diesel_wiesel;3455215]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

You intentionally read past the details bud.

Chesapeakes were bred to act as guard dogs along with working retrievers. This is fact. And a properly bred Chesapeake maintains an authoritarian demeanor. QUOTE]

look up the history of the Chesapeake bay retriever
yes they were not only bred for waterfowl / hunting dogs during the time of commercial hunting along the Chesapeake bay but as well were used to guard their owners property , and their daily take, while the dogs were left at the dock and their owners went up to the market to find a sale for their daily take
THIS IS FACT
if you own a certain breed of dog
it is usually to your best interest to know and educate yerself on the breed about its history, its original, uses (as many in todays society are lost and not pursued or used)and temperament
but putting all that to the side it is also your responsibility to be a good and responsible pet owner and do your best to avoid the crap that insecure and
irresponsible pet owners shovel out with untrained and out of control pets
am I right or wrong on this ????

Again, if I articulated it in a poor manner I apologize. But this is exactly what I was referring to

[tatonka2]

Be very careful with a Chessie around other dogs.....very careful. I speak from owning and breeding them for many years. Females can be as bad if not worse than males. Look up "Predatory Drift"... Here's one link:

http://hubpages.com/animals/Predator...ow-to-avoid-it

Don't become too lax and think your Chessie will never exhibit this behavior. They are a tough breed. I can't think of the word I want to use, but they tend to display a more primitive behavior than most gundog breeds.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by tatonka2

Be very careful with a Chessie around other dogs.....very careful. I speak from owning and breeding them for many years. Females can be as bad if not worse than males. Look up "Predatory Drift"... Here's one link:

http://hubpages.com/animals/Predator...ow-to-avoid-it

Don't become too lax and think your Chessie will never exhibit this behavior. They are a tough breed. I can't think of the word I want to use, but they tend to display a more primitive behavior than most gundog breeds.

TRUTH!

Thank you. When guys finally realize chesapeakes aren't labs, and more specifically aren't just 'ugly labs' this thread will finally serve its purpose.

[BenC68]

Originally Posted by madman

Hello, I'm looking for some opinions from the experienced hunting dog owners and breeders familiar with Chesapeakes or similar on when to neuter my hunting buddy. He's 8 months and 70lbs. He isn't papered and won't be used for breeding. So far he is pretty chill and isn't aggressive with other dogs or people. Nelson is playful and hasn't been displaying any dominance. From what I have read, I should wait until he's fully developed physically, which would be around 16-18 months. Does this sound right? I want him to have a full life with the less chance of disease down the road. He's my first dog.

I welcome your input.

Thanks,

Mad

You're going to get an ass-load of opinions on this. I have a friend who is on his tenth lab (yes I realize different breeds) and gets them fixed around 8 months. He has a PhD in animal sciences (can't remember the specification off the top of my head). The vet that he takes his (and I take mine) too who are very pro hunting, the vet actually hunts with dogs has also suggested by 8 months.

Another thing to consider, i realize they aren't used to hunt, but at the pound puppies are being fixed as early as 11 weeks.

There use to be research suggesting a later fix however more recent ones say it doesn't matter however by the second heat cycle if female, there is really no longer a point in doing it.

My two cents, of which I'm sure you'll get many.

[MK2750]

The purpose of the thread was to inquire about neutering.

Chessys are assertive but that doesn't mean they need be aggressive. It would be an extremely rare occasion when another sporting bred would not back down and cause an issue.

Neutering an animal reduces the chances of aggression surfacing and IMHO is the best bet for anyone that would like a well mannered dog that is a pleasure to hunt over. And again IMO this should be done sooner rather than waiting for an incident. Intact Chessys should be left to experienced handlers and breeders as already documented above.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by MK2750

The purpose of the thread was to inquire about neutering.

Chessys are assertive but that doesn't mean they need be aggressive. It would be an extremely rare occasion when another sporting bred would not back down and cause an issue.

Neutering an animal reduces the chances of aggression surfacing and IMHO is the best bet for anyone that would like a well mannered dog that is a pleasure to hunt over. And again IMO this should be done sooner rather than waiting for an incident. Intact Chessys should be left to experienced handlers and breeders as already documented above.

I dont know what is leading you to believe chesapeake owners on this thread arent experienced? Thats reaching. Youre kind of contradicting yourself here MK. The only issues that can or would arise are in situations where a dog is not being kept under control by their owners. Ie dogs coming up 'to say hi' at release sites, or in my case an under trained uncontrolled dog approaching mine. Leaving your dog open to wandering over to other 'working' groups is a prime time example of being an inexperienced handler. IMHO any working dog while in the field hould be at heel unless on a retrieve or point. Im there to work, as is my dog. If myself or my dog want lap dog puppy time, ill head to the dog park.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

I dont know what is leading you to believe chesapeake owners on this thread arent experienced? Thats reaching. Youre kind of contradicting yourself here MK. The only issues that can or would arise are in situations where a dog is not being kept under control by their owners. Ie dogs coming up 'to say hi' at release sites, or in my case an under trained uncontrolled dog approaching mine. Leaving your dog open to wandering over to other 'working' groups is a prime time example of being an inexperienced handler. IMHO any working dog while in the field hould be at heel unless on a retrieve or point. Im there to work, as is my dog. If myself or my dog want lap dog puppy time, ill head to the dog park.

If the OP was experienced he wouldn't need to be asking questions. I wasn't responding to bicker with you, I was expressing my opinion to the OP which differs from yours.

If you don't want dogs wandering over to you I would recommend you avoid release sites or other places where people in numbers hunt. There is no law against being an inexperienced handler unless of course your dog attacks another person or their dog AND it makes no difference if the other dog or person was in the wrong approaching you.

So just to recap, if you enjoy a dog that is going to attack another dog when he wanders up to say hello, an intact Chessy would be an awesome choice. If you would prefer an outgoing dog that is not going to attack unless truly threatened you would be better off with a Chessy neutered at a reasonable age (6-8 months) and socialized.

[ward]

Originally Posted by MK2750

If the OP was experienced he wouldn't need to be asking questions. I wasn't responding to bicker with you, I was expressing my opinion to the OP which differs from yours.

If you don't want dogs wandering over to you I would recommend you avoid release sites or other places where people in numbers hunt. There is no law against being an inexperienced handler unless of course your dog attacks another person or their dog AND it makes no difference if the other dog or person was in the wrong approaching you.

So just to recap, if you enjoy a dog that is going to attack another dog when he wanders up to say hello, an intact Chessy would be an awesome choice. If you would prefer an outgoing dog that is not going to attack unless truly threatened you would be better off with a Chessy neutered at a reasonable age (6-8 months) and socialized.

I have encountered very few poorly socialized,aggressive dogs in the field. When I do encounter one, without exception, the unfortunate dog has a a poorly socialized,aggressive owner.

[wwbirds]

Guess I have seen a fair number of dogs over the years and I believe the myth of castrating for better control is exactly a myth. there is no substitute for training and control. If a dog wanders into another dogs territory and a fight ensues blame the handlers of the dog for allowing it to happen.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Guess I have seen a fair number of dogs over the years and I believe the myth of castrating for better control is exactly a myth. there is no substitute for training and control. If a dog wanders into another dogs territory and a fight ensues blame the handlers of the dog for allowing it to happen.

Yah, I have always noticed that bulls are easier to get along with than steers as well.

[Diesel_wiesel]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Guess I have seen a fair number of dogs over the years and I believe the myth of castrating for better control is exactly a myth. there is no substitute for training and control. If a dog wanders into another dogs territory and a fight ensues blame the handlers of the dog for allowing it to happen.

this is so very true

[wwbirds]

Lets neuter all pitbulls, bull terriers, akitas, dobermans, rotties, german shepards, blue heelers, and dalmations and all other dogs that may show aggression if not trained and controlled.

If you know you have a breed that can tend to be aggressive you compensate by over training and over controlling not by making excuses that it is part of the breed.

[MK2750]

Testosterone is a real thing not an opinion. It is scientifically proven that testosterone and aggression are linked and that reducing testosterone levels reduces aggression. Neutering reduces testosterone.

This conversation is borderline ridiculous. We have kept many intact dogs for breeding purposes and there is no amount of training that will keep him from chasing bitches and displaying dominance.

Physical force or containment is the only way to keep an intact male away from a female in heat and there is no training it out of him. This also is true of an alpha dog that sees another dog as a rival.

Chesapeake Retrievers take this to an entirely different level as they are extremely competitive and protective by nature. They do not fall into the pack mentality like some other breeds and it is rare that two Chessys even know each other will hunt well together, this is especially true of two males. A Chessy likes a one on one relationship with its handler and often does not appreciate other hunters let alone other dogs. A neutered Chesapeake is more than many can handle and still more accretive than most intact dogs.

If you are ever wondering why the majority of deer are shot during the rut, look up testosterone. Every bit of training tells a buck it is dangerous to run across that field and he knows he may be killed BUT testosterone trumps common sense and training.

Saying you can train natural sexual behaviour out of an animal is like saying you can train a cow to retrieve.

The real myth is anyone that believes neutering a dog will make him less accretive in the field. Dogs that we have had neutered became more focused and better field dogs.

There have been hundreds of scientific studies on this topic and I would strongly recommend the OP spend some time on Google. It has been proven that physical development can be hindered by premature neutering and there is health risks involved in both neutering and not.

[wildside2014]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Testosterone is a real thing not an opinion. It is scientifically proven that testosterone and aggression are linked and that reducing testosterone levels reduces aggression. Neutering reduces testosterone.

This conversation is borderline ridiculous. We have kept many intact dogs for breeding purposes and there is no amount of training that will keep him from chasing bitches and displaying dominance.

Physical force or containment is the only way to keep an intact male away from a female in heat and there is no training it out of him. This also is true of an alpha dog that sees another dog as a rival.

Chesapeake Retrievers take this to an entirely different level as they are extremely competitive and protective by nature. They do not fall into the pack mentality like some other breeds and it is rare that two Chessys even know each other will hunt well together, this is especially true of two males. A Chessy likes a one on one relationship with its handler and often does not appreciate other hunters let alone other dogs. A neutered Chesapeake is more than many can handle and still more accretive than most intact dogs.

If you are ever wondering why the majority of deer are shot during the rut, look up testosterone. Every bit of training tells a buck it is dangerous to run across that field and he knows he may be killed BUT testosterone trumps common sense and training.

Saying you can train natural sexual behaviour out of an animal is like saying you can train a cow to retrieve.

The real myth is anyone that believes neutering a dog will make him less accretive in the field. Dogs that we have had neutered became more focused and better field dogs.

There have been hundreds of scientific studies on this topic and I would strongly recommend the OP spend some time on Google. It has been proven that physical development can be hindered by premature neutering and there is health risks involved in both neutering and not.

And then you win my heart all over again with a great post. Well said MK.

Sometimes i chuckle at the old boys club that is retriever training, and i mean no offence to that.

[M.C. Gusto]

https://www.avma.org/news/javmanews/pages/131101a.aspx

Lots of things said here I disagree with, not going to argue with anyone, opinions seems strong and I won't be changing anyone's mind. As for me I will never neuter a male dog again.

[Diesel_wiesel]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

And then you win my heart all over again with a great post. Well said MK.

Sometimes i chuckle at the old boys club that is retriever training, and i mean no offence to that.

yes I laugh as well
and most times my posts don't got the powder to blow an ants egg out of a frogs nest
I am on this forum because
there is some very knowledgeable and wise people on this forum that we can all learn from in one way or an udder

[wwbirds]

that is why we have opinions so we can agree to disagree. Some here believe that testosterone is the cause, some believe it is just some breeds are predisposed to antisocial behavior and even the Predatory Drift argument can be used to explain certain breed aggression towards other dogs or even people.

[tatonka2]

Predatory Drift: I had two female Chessies attack and kill one of my Springers. The Chessies were 9 and 6 years old and the Springer was 8 years old. They had lived together, hunted together, etc. all their lives and there never was so much as a hint of a problem. One day my Springer was coming under a fence and the 6 year old Chessie was on the other side. She attacked her and within seconds the 9 year old joined her. I was taken totally by surprise. We were out for our daily walk...something we had done at least twice a day since the dogs were pups. I did everything I could to intervene, but believe me there is no way one person can stop two Chessies when they are in attack mode. I finally found a limb and beat on the two chessies until they stopped, but it was too late. My Springer died at the vet's office. I shot both Chessies. I will not have a dog on my place that I can't trust 100%. Oddly enough, the two males I had at the time paid no attention to what was going on with the females...they could have cared less. I never did have any issues with my males.

I know this has nothing to do with neutering, but the conversation included the topic of aggression. Predatory Drift is not the same as aggression from what I've read, but the end result is the same.

Regarding Chessies in general. They are a tough breed, as has already been mentioned...very,very tough, and I think they are far more primitive than most other gundog breeds. When I was breeding them I had a couple eat their puppies and another would snap at her pups if they got near her feed dish (she killed one doing this), so I could not feed her when she was with her pups. I've been breeding Springers for nearly 30 years now and have never had any of these kinds of problems with my Springers. My Chessies were from top field lines in the U.S. and Canada...very, very well bred dogs. We're talking Nordais, Westwind, Northern Flight, Fireweed, etc. lines.

Just saying.... People can take what I have shared and use it or they can disregard it.