Metis hunting rights?

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Programs are not given because of RIGHTS....where on earth did you get that bit of "knowledge"??? Rights are not given because of RACE either, in case you were not aware of it. Haven't you ever seen an oriental aboriginal?? Did you know that prior to 1982 when you married into the family you were given all the same RIGHTS?? Lets clear things up...what are Aboriginal Rights exactly?? Hint: If you can answer this correctly then you are smarter than 99% of lawyers and judges.....

Abolish free no limit laws?? Do you understand what treaty obligations are? You want your government to make a treaty, and now break it?? Not very honourable sir.

WTF???? what is an oriental aboriginal????? ROFLMAO. poor reading comprehension hey.... Aboriginals are given their aboriginal rights(benefits) due to being aboriginal. yup, inherited due to race. yup prior to 1982, times have changed and so should their rights. Aboriginal rights are those outlined in the treatys and have been added to based on the advancement of the human race. There is a clause that allows the hunting rights to be modified but no-one in the political office has the stones to excersise our right to modify them.

With the changes to the hunting laws. you once again tried to deflect and gave no reason why that wouldn't work. if you had a memory longer than a goldfish you would remember my comments about the changes coming from within. It is up to the bands to step up and realize that in TODAYS day in age there should be control to ensure the privledge to hunt is around for generations.

[nube]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

its kind of scary there are people like you walking in society. subsidized housing for the general non aboriginals is for low income people that qualify for this. Race has nothing to do with it. I wonder how much of the income a native earns goes to his housing? and what kind of shape is it in in 10 years. As for the capital gains. I guarantee the aboriginals will get that as well. That does not even come close to the tax breaks they recieve on a daily basis, such as income tax. education grants are available for the general public and Natives can apply for those as well. Not too mention the special native education grants offered just for them. If any one of them wants to go to college they will pay a fraction of what I will. Once again. Where did I say anything that was a lie. I never said the white man gets nothing. The white man just gets a heck of a lot less. I grew up near med hat. Very few natives in that area and I had absolutely no issues with them. However, after spending several years in Rocky there are a few things that are starting to bother me. Try having 2 quads stolen from locked areas in less than a year. Both turned up on the O-cheise reserve trashed. If you even bothered to read my posts early on in this thread you would actually have an idea where I stand on the natives. As a whole I love their culture and I am well aware that for the most part they are good people. That is why I really don't care about the extra breaks they recieve. But when simple people like you say they recieve no breaks or benefits I take exception. Grow up and realize you have it pretty good. Life is what you make it. I have the exact same lack of respect for a lazy, drunk, wife beating white man as I do for a native that does the same thing.

Here is a couple things that are fact that happen regularly in rocky.

Natives shooting a moose and take the hind quarters and snout. Natives calling an ambulance faking a seizure. Ambulance responds and realizes it is a fake and calls the lady on her BS. The lady then stops shaking and grabs the paramedic violently and dislocates his shoulder. Real story in the paper, and yup, she was convicted. next time you go through rocky stop at the hospital, check out the waiting room. on any given day it is probably 70% natives. How about the gang wars between the sunchild and o-cheise reserves. Lots of baseball bat a rock injuries bogging down our health care system.

A big AMEN to the abuse of the "EMERGENCY" department. I work in it and see the constant abuse that I and YOU have to pay for. They need a cab ride to the other end of town so they fake a heart attack. Seen it too many times.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Say Mulecrazy:

Sorry to go sort of off topic, but what the heck is going on with the Sunchild OChiese wars?

Is it for drug territory, Cree vs Stony, Fund allocation???????

I was just wondering, I heard things were sort brewing up pretty mean west of Rocky. And I don't mean the thunderstorms.

Its a continuous battle that keeps raging. I am not exactly sure on the dynamics but from what I have been told this is what I understand. The two reserves are from different descent and are bitter rivals. for example: one person beats up one guy, they respond with rocks, then a retaliation with bats, and in one case the woman uses her car to run a couple of them over. The number of ambulances per day heading there is mind boggling. it doesn't get the media coverage as it is fairly remote (unlike hobeema).
another contributing factor is something I cannot confirm but have heard it many times. Supposedly a lot of the cast offs from other reserves were sent out here when abolished from their reserves. Whether or not that is true I am not sure, just what I have heard.

On another note, the bighorn reserve natives from out west are really pretty good. Very nice people from the ones I have met. on a whole, much better people.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

WTF???? what is an oriental aboriginal????? ROFLMAO. poor reading comprehension hey.... Aboriginals are given their aboriginal rights(benefits) due to being aboriginal. yup, inherited due to race. yup prior to 1982, times have changed and so should their rights. Aboriginal rights are those outlined in the treatys and have been added to based on the advancement of the human race. There is a clause that allows the hunting rights to be modified but no-one in the political office has the stones to excersise our right to modify them.

With the changes to the hunting laws. you once again tried to deflect and gave no reason why that wouldn't work. if you had a memory longer than a goldfish you would remember my comments about the changes coming from within. It is up to the bands to step up and realize that in TODAYS day in age there should be control to ensure the privledge to hunt is around for generations.

Prior to 1982 a named Chui moved to Canada to work on building the railways, he married a Cree woman and was immediatly entered onto the Band registry as a member of her band. He is now an oriental aboriginal with all rights of any regular band member......LMFAO..there you go stoopid do you get it now?? If you'd have paid attention in school you would know this....

Why change what isn't broken? Most aboriginals don't hunt, just like most whites don't hunt. You just want to break the treaty hunting clauses so you can have more access to tags......pretty self serving. imho

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

Its a continuous battle that keeps raging. I am not exactly sure on the dynamics but from what I have been told this is what I understand. The two reserves are from different descent and are bitter rivals. for example: one person beats up one guy, they respond with rocks, then a retaliation with bats, and in one case the woman uses her car to run a couple of them over. The number of ambulances per day heading there is mind boggling. it doesn't get the media coverage as it is fairly remote (unlike hobeema).
another contributing factor is something I cannot confirm but have heard it many times. Supposedly a lot of the cast offs from other reserves were sent out here when abolished from their reserves. Whether or not that is true I am not sure, just what I have heard.
On another note, the bighorn reserve natives from out west are really pretty good. Very nice people from the ones I have met. on a whole, much better people.

Talk about spreading the BS.....man your a sick puppy!!!

[Nester]

Originally Posted by nube

A big AMEN to the abuse of the "EMERGENCY" department. I work in it and see the constant abuse that I and YOU have to pay for. They need a cab ride to the other end of town so they fake a heart attack. Seen it too many times.

Calling bull**** on this nube Make it sound like it's a daily occurence and not the very rare occurance it is. Nice try.




This isn't just a "native" thing. It's pathetic how badly abused this system is by everyone, especially the elderly.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Prior to 1982 a named Chui moved to Canada to work on building the railways, he married a Cree woman and was immediatly entered onto the Band registry as a member of her band. He is now an oriental aboriginal with all rights of any regular band member......LMFAO..there you go stoopid do you get it now?? If you'd have paid attention in school you would know this....

Why change what isn't broken? Most aboriginals don't hunt, just like most whites don't hunt. You just want to break the treaty hunting clauses so you can have more access to tags......pretty self serving. imho

OK so you bring up an example from pre 1982 that they have corrected and is no longer valid as your sole argument.... this is easier than I figured it would be. LOL. nicely done. I actually did pay attention in school and social studies history was my favorite, I have never heard of this Chui before.

This thing is, it is breaking.... Natives going out to shoot something simply to excersize their right is not right. If they choose to hunt for free to feed their family in need, I see nothing wrong with that. You must not hunt west of rocky... try finding a moose, not near as many as their should be. The natives wait until the hunting is easiest in the dead of winter and slaughter them from the road, often with flashlights. Is them shooting a moose simply for the hinds and snout not self serving???? "IMHO" hey.... nothing humble about your argument or approach.

[echo]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

What am I...a know it all??? A CEO of a company, or a government worker, or a union leader....gets a per diem to cover daily expenses....they don't even have to pay for smokes...never mind forking out 6 bucks...and they most likely are not aboriginal either!! And they get free cars, with free gas.....man those aboriginals get everything and nobody else does......

Hey, I am not saying that at times I am not envious of some benefits they can access, but in all fairness MOST of these things others can get too. So why single out the aboriginal unless your desire is to manipulate others into hating them for something they didn't even institute????

Are you for real ? I don't even qualify for GST rebates let alone any thing thats offered to all these other groups,and guess what the way i see it is the average english speaking canadian is just as much a minorty as any of these other groups.So maybe we should pick a team leader go break some laws,and then start the hard done by theory to handcuff the rest of canada to get our own way,but this is just my opinion!!

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Talk about spreading the BS.....man your a sick puppy!!!

Listen here simple guy. I clearly state that I cannot prove this or say for sure it is the case. a very clear disclamer. however, you seem to know something about it.... please enlighten us or shut the heck up!!!!. but, like everything else on here, you talk out of your hind quarter and fail to actively listen and discuss options.

[echo]

Originally Posted by Nester

Calling bull**** on this nube Make it sound like it's a daily occurence and not the very rare occurance it is. Nice try.




This isn't just a "native" thing. It's pathetic how badly abused this system is by everyone, especially the elderly.

Or drink some cough syrup to get a medi vac ride to the city for the weekend!

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by Nester

Calling bull**** on this nube Make it sound like it's a daily occurence and not the very rare occurance it is. Nice try.




This isn't just a "native" thing. It's pathetic how badly abused this system is by everyone, especially the elderly.

It is more than a daily occurance in rocky. Talk to anyone in this town involved in health care. it is often a several times a day occurance. denial does not make the problem dissapear. Like I said, stop in at the rocky hospital. it is crazy how many natives there are there. totally mind boggling. I was blown away the first time I had to go in there.

[Nester]

I have and they all say your full of ****...

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

OK so you bring up an example from pre 1982 that they have corrected and is no longer valid as your sole argument.... this is easier than I figured it would be. LOL. nicely done. I actually did pay attention in school and social studies history was my favorite, I have never heard of this Chui before.

This thing is, it is breaking.... Natives going out to shoot something simply to excersize their right is not right. If they choose to hunt for free to feed their family in need, I see nothing wrong with that. You must not hunt west of rocky... try finding a moose, not near as many as their should be. The natives wait until the hunting is easiest in the dead of winter and slaughter them from the road, often with flashlights. Is them shooting a moose simply for the hinds and snout not self serving???? "IMHO" hey.... nothing humble about your argument or approach.

He isn't the only instance...there are thousands...blond hair blue eyed red haired freckled status indians...and this is how it happened. Some even ,split up, left the reserve and married again...their kids no aboriginal blood at all...all carry status cards.

Killing just to exercise a right is wrong..we can agree on that. Having a family in 'need' has no bearing on exercising rights. Sure I hunt moose west of the rockies all the time. Taking just hinds and snouts is wrong.....if I saw them doing that they would get a beating...[evilgrin]...i teach'em old fashioned way.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by echo

Are you for real ? I don't even qualify for GST rebates let alone any thing thats offered to all these other groups,and guess what the way i see it is the average english speaking canadian is just as much a minorty as any of these other groups.So maybe we should pick a team leader go break some laws,and then start the hard done by theory to handcuff the rest of canada to get our own way,but this is just my opinion!!

Hey me neither, no gst rebates for me....!! And can you believe it I am aboriginal...HOLY cow, I'd feel real hard done by if I was white english speaking.....

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by Nester

I have and they all say your full of ****...

haha, nicely done. I bow down to your superior intlect. ROFLMAO.

thanks for your input

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Hey me neither, no gst rebates for me....!! And can you believe it I am aboriginal...HOLY cow, I'd feel real hard done by if I was white english speaking.....

and as an aboriginal, please enlighten us on all the benefits you recieve... but you will likely deflect, deflect, deflect a direct question away.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

He isn't the only instance...there are thousands...blond hair blue eyed red haired freckled status indians...and this is how it happened. Some even ,split up, left the reserve and married again...their kids no aboriginal blood at all...all carry status cards.

Killing just to exercise a right is wrong..we can agree on that. Having a family in 'need' has no bearing on exercising rights. Sure I hunt moose west of the rockies all the time. Taking just hinds and snouts is wrong.....if I saw them doing that they would get a beating...[evilgrin]...i teach'em old fashioned way.

can you not agree that a little control will help ease the illegal/unethical behaviour? I am not saying make them pay or give up their right to hunt, just a bit of control and monitoring to ensure healthy poplulations in years to come.

as for the blonde haired blue eyed status carriers. That is a bunch of crap for them to have those rights. That is for sure. but that cannot happen in the future correct?

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

can you not agree that a little control will help ease the illegal/unethical behaviour? I am not saying make them pay or give up their right to hunt, just a bit of control and monitoring to ensure healthy poplulations in years to come.

as for the blonde haired blue eyed status carriers. That is a bunch of crap for them to have those rights. That is for sure. but that cannot happen in the future correct?

You cannot control the illegal/unethical with bylaws and acts of legislation it doesn't matter what race, kind of like trying to control criminals using guns by making hunters register them?? You want controls...do counts in the field..you'll know more by knowing how many animals are there than you ever will trying to guess the mortality rates with all the different factors thrown in.

If they are descended from a male non-aboriginal that married into the band, divorced and left, all of the descendants forever will be elegible for status.....that's the way it is.

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

You cannot control the illegal/unethical with bylaws and acts of legislation it doesn't matter what race, kind of like trying to control criminals using guns by making hunters register them?? You want controls...do counts in the field..you'll know more by knowing how many animals are there than you ever will trying to guess the mortality rates with all the different factors thrown in.

If they are descended from a male non-aboriginal that married into the band, divorced and left, all of the descendants forever will be elegible for status.....that's the way it is.

ummmm, they do counts.... what the heck is the point of your post. The whole theory on the controls is that it will prevent needless waste. After the counts the government can tell how many moose/deer can be harvested and they adjust the tags accordingly. It would work the exact same as our tag draw system, except they don't have to pay for it. As the populations of the reserves continues to increase the pressure on our resource is higher. It is a pretty simple concept, I am beside myself as to why you fail to understand it.

[Jack&7]

Well, we have made it into the 500's for a post count on this thread and it still hasn't been shut down. It has come close at times, but at this point, I must say that I feel it is degrading rather quickly. Canuckshooter, if you have something constructive to add to the discussion, please do so...but you need to stop with the grade-school-yard "chicken" comments and calling people "stoopid" right now. Nobody appreciates it and is really interested. Communication is a two way street that has to be tempered with some respect for other's opinions....regardless of whether you agree or not.

This discussion has gone on for a while now with many different points of view...and some educational info as well. Please don't be the guy that railroads the conversation with immaturity. Sorry to single you out, as I try not to do this, but I feel you have crossed the line and the rest of us that are actually enjoying the conversation will suffer for it. Thank you.

I am amazed at the Ron Jones-Rafter-Top Gun saga and I have been very interested by some of the stuff I have read (yes...I have read the whole thing!) from people like Walking Buffalo, TJ Schwanky, etc. from both sides of the issue. There have been some very good points made and solutions presented...now what to do with those suggestions?

Can anyone offer some options on what "average joe" can do to voice their concerns? and to whom?

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by nube

A big AMEN to the abuse of the "EMERGENCY" department. I work in it and see the constant abuse that I and YOU have to pay for. They need a cab ride to the other end of town so they fake a heart attack. Seen it too many times.

X10, Blackmamba's sister tells us stories for the abuse almost on a daily basis. She works out of High Level.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

into the mix...LOL...your a funny guy spreading BS like that around!!! BUT it's a very clear disclaimer.....

You need to tone it down. You are going way over the line in a bunch of your posts, personally and rudely attacking anyone you disagree with. You don't need to do that to make your case. There are women and kids reading the posts here. Thanks.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You need to tone it down. You are going way over the line in a bunch of your posts, personally and rudely attacking anyone you disagree with. You don't need to do that to make your case. There are women and kids reading the posts here. Thanks.

X2


Seriously 24 posts and lashing out like that, makes me wonder if it's another double account again, or just a character flaw!

It's gonna be fun to watch the BANNED button get pushed soon enough!

[buck slayer]

mulecrazy i think you use to many stereotypes and are full of sh*&, there r just as many white people as native people abusing the system but its easy to point fingers. You write about Hobbema and sunchild what about white people doing the same thing in edmonton and calgary. Your full of s*it you dont know nothing about treaty rights or metis right your talk from lack of information and stereotypes grow up.

[walking buffalo]

Alberta Metis hunter Ron Jones, after illegally shooting, then poses with the antelope, identifies himself, “I AM NOT ABORIGINAL”. see post # 461 and 463.

Lawyers Rothwell, Madden, and Teillet, Provincial Court Judge Ted Fisher, Audrey Poitras, Metis Nation of Alberta, Supreme Court of Canada, should see this admission.

Poor “Wa-quish and the Glove”.

[echo]

I have a question for Rafter-Top Gun-jones,i will admit you are well known but not for alot of good reasons,whether in the oil and gas industry,guide and outfitting industry etc,etc.So what makes you think you are the best voice for the metis?
Secondly should you not have been charged with allowing the ediable meat of a big game animal to waste seeing how you shot an Antelope knowing that the animal would be taken away?
Also who made the decison to shoot an Antelope and why? Because in my opinon an Antelope would be the last animal i would hunt if i needed food.(lack of meat and skill required to shoot,which you don't have seeing it took you 5 or 6 shots)
Also if given these rights would you use them to benifit any guiding or outfitting business?
You do have the gift to bulls----,buts thats about it!

[mulecrazy]

Originally Posted by buck slayer

mulecrazy i think you use to many stereotypes and are full of sh*&, there r just as many white people as native people abusing the system but its easy to point fingers. You write about Hobbema and sunchild what about white people doing the same thing in edmonton and calgary. Your full of s*it you dont know nothing about treaty rights or metis right your talk from lack of information and stereotypes grow up.

haha, just because I call it as I see it and not as you see it I am full of ****. nice. The thing is when it just gets denied anytime it is brought up or the classic "white people abuse systems" does not make the problem go away or make it any better. The problem with the ambulance abuse is that they do not have to pay for it, whereas everyone else has too. Far too often everyone else is left unprotected as the ambulance makes the long journey out to the o-cheise on a bogus call. It happens a ton, talk to a health care worker in Rocky. There is crap everywhere that is for sure. In no post have I ever said that the white man is even close to being perfect. Gangs are out there and are a problem. Police are doing their best but the legal system boggs them down. am I an expert on treaty rights?? hell no, that is why I have not quoted treaty rights anywhere. I have spoke on the basics in every post. In no place was I wrong about the treaty. I gave examples of how they benefit and thats about it. Just because you don't like to hear what I am saying does not make it wrong. Isn't it strange that just about every question I have directly asked an aboriginal here is not answered. maybe its cause they know the answer will not help their cause.

The fact is I live in Rocky and see a lot of the crappy stuff. I do see a lot of the good stuff and repeatedly have stated on here how I have a ton of respect for the ones who live their life according to their traditions. I have also seen how deteriorated the sunchild and o-cheise reserves make themselves, whereas the bighorn reserve farther west is very nice. Like myself and others have said. The quality of life on the reserves is what they themselves make it. the ones that blame the white man for everything have a lower standard of living. The ones such as the Bighorn, or Osoyoos reserves have stepped up to the plate and delivered. And at that, they have my full respect.

[diamonddave]

Well said Mule crazy.... Im in rocky as well and have seen some interesting stuff in my time with the RVFD. I will keep my first hand experiences to the P.M's thoe.

[buck slayer]

Originally Posted by mulecrazy

haha, just because I call it as I see it and not as you see it I am full of ****. nice. The thing is when it just gets denied anytime it is brought up or the classic "white people abuse systems" does not make the problem go away or make it any better. The problem with the ambulance abuse is that they do not have to pay for it, whereas everyone else has too. Far too often everyone else is left unprotected as the ambulance makes the long journey out to the o-cheise on a bogus call. It happens a ton, talk to a health care worker in Rocky. There is crap everywhere that is for sure. In no post have I ever said that the white man is even close to being perfect. Gangs are out there and are a problem. Police are doing their best but the legal system boggs them down. am I an expert on treaty rights?? hell no, that is why I have not quoted treaty rights anywhere. I have spoke on the basics in every post. In no place was I wrong about the treaty. I gave examples of how they benefit and thats about it. Just because you don't like to hear what I am saying does not make it wrong. Isn't it strange that just about every question I have directly asked an aboriginal here is not answered. maybe its cause they know the answer will not help their cause.

The fact is I live in Rocky and see a lot of the crappy stuff. I do see a lot of the good stuff and repeatedly have stated on here how I have a ton of respect for the ones who live their life according to their traditions. I have also seen how deteriorated the sunchild and o-cheise reserves make themselves, whereas the bighorn reserve farther west is very nice. Like myself and others have said. The quality of life on the reserves is what they themselves make it. the ones that blame the white man for everything have a lower standard of living. The ones such as the Bighorn, or Osoyoos reserves have stepped up to the plate and delivered. And at that, they have my full respect.

you just say the same bullsh#$ over and over it applies to all people in soceity. Its like that every where theres nice white towns and ruff white towns. "This is a classic " natives abuse the system" and it does not make the problem go away". Every thing you say can be reversed think out side the box. This thread was about hunting rites not a forum to bash a race use your head you sound like a whiney little bi&^h. You got more issues then hunt rites grow up..................

[diamonddave]

Buck slayer, there is a funtion on here called the P.M ( private message) lets keep the public chat a little cleaner, for the kids sake that read on here, please.