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Old 02-21-2018, 06:31 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Default ...and another one - Hornady 6.5 PRC

Dave Emery must really be on to something when it comes to developing redundant cartridges. If he pulls this particular one off it will be a super miracle... but he's done that before.

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/r...sion-hunter#!/
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:35 PM
Nyksta Nyksta is offline
 
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6.5 wsm
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:29 PM
ForwardBias ForwardBias is offline
 
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Im sure people felt the same about the 30-30, 270, 280, 308 etc.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:41 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ForwardBias View Post
Im sure people felt the same about the 30-30, 270, 280, 308 etc.
Could be but there were a lot more holes to fill in those days. The holes are getting smaller every year now.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:21 PM
ForwardBias ForwardBias is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
Could be but there were a lot more holes to fill in those days. The holes are getting smaller every year now.
I do agree with you on that. I think it's incremental advances in bullet technology driving incremental advances in case design. I won't encourage new shooters or hunters to invest in the specialty cartridges. I however like to play with alleged better mouse traps.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:56 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ForwardBias View Post
I do agree with you on that. I think it's incremental advances in bullet technology driving incremental advances in case design. I won't encourage new shooters or hunters to invest in the specialty cartridges. I however like to play with alleged better mouse traps.
Totally . I was just playing around with Quickload and from all appearances it looks like they may have just hit another homer with this one... just like it's parent case the Ruger RCM and, of course, the CM .If they actually get their advertised velocities, which seems likely, it's going to be a tough one to beat as I see it now. A better mouse trap, as you say.
The hole it fills is small though as it beats the 6.5x55 SE (with modern pressures) by only 100 yd in MV.. Swede at 2810 MV and the PRC 2810 @ 100 yds with 143's. Anyway, it' a nice enough cartridge IMO to get me wanting one anyway, that's for sure. I see Dave Emery has retired after this last launch. He's earned it !
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:57 AM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Interesting, Hornady knocked it back 140fps from what he wanted it to run at with a 140gr. There was a Shotshow vid he did for Hornady on FB where he talked it up as a hunting round application, said he could run it comfortably at 3100, could push it to 3150.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:58 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 32-40win View Post
Interesting, Hornady knocked it back 140fps from what he wanted it to run at with a 140gr. There was a Shotshow vid he did for Hornady on FB where he talked it up as a hunting round application, said he could run it comfortably at 3100, could push it to 3150.
That may be possible with an in-house powder blend, but it seems like quite a stretch with OTC powders. I had a 6.5x.270 WSM that reached 3140 when it pushed the 140's hard. Can't see that happening with this one at nominal pressures and maybe some magazine length limitations. Time will tell I guess.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:16 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Many people will buy a new cartridge,just because it is new, so I believe that it will come down to marketing.
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:53 AM
boomstick boomstick is offline
 
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Default 6.5

Just dont see what this is going to do that my 6.5 swede cant do at 2800fps other then appeal to the ..oooo look shine new crowd . Just a new fad in the 6.5 craze and marketing is king on this.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:46 AM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Just dont see what this is going to do that my 6.5 swede cant do at 2800fps other then appeal to the ..oooo look shine new crowd . Just a new fad in the 6.5 craze and marketing is king on this.
I agree. The old Swede may still come out ahead after the dust settles on this one. It seems that many have, and will continue to overlook what the 6.5x55 can do with modern pressures, a long action, a 24 " barrel length .. and no marketing hype. The PRC is interesting though, but maybe that's all it will be.
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Old 02-22-2018, 12:42 PM
Smokinyotes Smokinyotes is online now
 
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Currently have 2- 6.5x55’s and a 6.5-284. I won’t be getting rid of any of them to add a 6.5prc. If I was to do another 6.5 it would either be a 26 Nosler or 6.5-300 wby.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:04 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Currently have 2- 6.5x55’s and a 6.5-284. I won’t be getting rid of any of them to add a 6.5prc. If I was to do another 6.5 it would either be a 26 Nosler or 6.5-300 wby.
You seem to have the 6.5 bases well covered. I'm wondering how the PRC would feel with it's neck shrunk to 6mm lol. It won't be long, I'm thinking.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:33 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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I think that Hornady got it pretty close to right with the 6.5 PRC especially with the 143 ELDX and 147 ELD Match. GAP Precision admitted early on that the Hornady 300 RCM, shortened a bit, would have been a better design than the 6.5 SAUM. That is partly due to the fact that it does not have a rebated rim, which causes some feeding problems, but likely more to do with the fact that it holds a bit too much H 1000 and Retumbo. I had designed the 6.5 EXTREME on the 300 RCM case and throated to run the 140 Berger VLD jambed into the lands and found that it actually had about 2-3 grains more capacity than necessary. The PRC is based on the 338 RCM case which is somewhat shorter in length.

I know that many think that the extra 2-3 grains of powder will give more velocity but in fact velocity drops off with the extra capacity and then has to build back up with the addition of more powder unless one has a slower powder to go to and the extra capacity to use it. The result is actually higher pressure, with very little velocity increase, unless Saami pressures are exceeded. With the 6.5 EXTREME I was at max pressure at 3100 fps with the 140 Berger ahead of 60.3 grains Retumbo. It looks like the PRC will do that with about a grain less powder and perhaps slightly less pressure?

People are reporting 3000 fps with the 147 ELD-M and over 3100 with the 143 ELD-X bullet. Others are getting 3125 with the 140 VLD and one fellow reporting 3190, "without even trying", with a 140 A-Max in a 28" barrel with RL 22. I know I would be stretching brass with that load in my 6.5 EXTREME but he likely is too. However Hornady's load data confirms that this cartridge will run well ahead of the old Swede and the 6.5 284. See link:
https://press.hornady.com/assets/sit...6.5-prc-v2.pdf
Picture shows 143 ELD-X in 6.5 PRC to OAL, on left. Next to it is 143 ELD-X seated 0.050" off the lands in the 6.5 EXTREME. The 6.5 X55, 6.5X284 and 7mm Mag for comparison.
[IMG][/IMG]

The Hybrid style Ogive of the 143 ELDX reaches the lands with the bearing surface seated down past the case neck. Shown in this picture, seated 0.050" off the lands it holds 60.7 grains of Retumbo under the bullet. I am hoping that it will meet, or exceed the 3100 fps that Hornady are showing with their max load of 59.3 grains.
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:45 PM
32-40win 32-40win is offline
 
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Here is the vid I saw on it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rIIb3YSPj4
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:54 PM
ForwardBias ForwardBias is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
You seem to have the 6.5 bases well covered. I'm wondering how the PRC would feel with it's neck shrunk to 6mm lol. It won't be long, I'm thinking.
My first thought as well. 6mm PRC.
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Old 02-22-2018, 04:21 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Originally Posted by ForwardBias View Post
My first thought as well. 6mm PRC.
Here it is what it would look like with the 105 Berger Hybrid seated to the lands. Likely would not gain much over the 6 Creedmore as 45.8 grains of RL 26 is reported to get 3220 fps. Perhaps it would get the 115 Bergers faster than that but they don't have a higher BC. Perhaps Hornady will do a 6PRC with a heavy bullets to match?

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:01 PM
Ruby76 Ruby76 is offline
 
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6.5 Sherman short mag and 6mm sherman short tactical. I won't say I'm an expert, rather people should look into them yourselves and decide the capabilities and benefits. There is a whole line of sherman '06 sized and saum based cartridges that are realllly turning heads.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:28 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Ruby76 View Post
6.5 Sherman short mag and 6mm sherman short tactical. I won't say I'm an expert, rather people should look into them yourselves and decide the capabilities and benefits. There is a whole line of sherman '06 sized and saum based cartridges that are realllly turning heads.
It's pretty crowded in both 6mm and 6.5 territory as it is but there always seems to be room for more. For me, I'm going to wait and see what the 6.5 PRC does. If it achieves an honest, uncompromised 3100 with a 143, that would leave little doubt, in my mind anyway. that it will be here to stay. If it is anything like my overbore 6.5/.270WSM was at that 140/3100 + velocity, the barrel makers will keep busy .I think the same may apply to a SAUM based 6.5. There is still a new Sierra 6.5/150 gr to deal with that will prove interesting as well. Maybe the old Swede will have to deal with that one.
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Old 02-22-2018, 05:48 PM
Ruby76 Ruby76 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
It's pretty crowded in both 6mm and 6.5 territory as it is but there always seems to be room for more. For me, I'm going to wait and see what the 6.5 PRC does. If it achieves an honest, uncompromised 3100 with a 143, that would leave little doubt, in my mind anyway. that it will be here to stay. If it is anything like my overbore 6.5/.270WSM was at that 140/3100 + velocity, the barrel makers will keep busy .I think the same may apply to a SAUM based 6.5. There is still a new Sierra 6.5/150 gr to deal with that will prove interesting as well. Maybe the old Swede will have to deal with that one.
The Sherman design pushes the shoulder back, blows out the body taper, longer neck and a 40 degree shoulder allowing longer bullets while still being a true short action. Due to design is extremely efficient, and with quality brass is getting better proven velocities than listed in this thread with other cartridges. Barrel life looks to be very good, again, due to cartridge design. Headstamped quality brass coming out this summer for the 6.5 and 7mm versions, others simply necked up.
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:59 PM
Salavee Salavee is offline
 
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There are a number of great new 6.5 cartridges around these days but my take (and that's all it is) is that the 6.5 based on a short action has about maxed itself out. Now, we have heavier, longer bullets arriving that are best suited to the 6.5's based on the std long action.473 bolt face. Sierra, in a brilliant marketing move to keep these other cartridges, like the 6.5-284, 65.-06 etc. alive and well, have led off with the new 150 gr with a .713 BC. The CM (for sure) and probably the PRC do not have the ability to handle them. I believe we will soon see other offerings, maybe even heavier high BC projectiles from Berger, Nosler and probably Barnes and maybe a couple of others. All in all, I believe we will see a contiuning revival in the 6.5 caliber category right across the board ... and Hornady won't be getting all the marbles. However, thanks to them, the 6.5 is finally on the roll it deserves.
.
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Old 02-22-2018, 08:58 PM
Ruby76 Ruby76 is offline
 
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Great observations for sure. There are so many cartridges available that there really is something for everyone. From ”standard” offerings, short and long action, big and bigger capacity cartridges, to wildcats that fill smaller niches. Many of us like to tinker, and some can never tinker enough. In my personal quest for efficient cartridges (also have a 280AI) I stumbled on the Sherman line. He also does a 6.5 based on 270win brass. It is comparable to an ackley improved case, he just does it a bit better. In each of his offerings they are reaching speeds equivalent to their belted mag cousins. All the way up to a 338 that hit over 2950 with a 250 berger, on a standard long action. Im building a 338 short version
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:46 AM
Beeman3 Beeman3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruby76 View Post
6.5 Sherman short mag and 6mm sherman short tactical. I won't say I'm an expert, rather people should look into them yourselves and decide the capabilities and benefits. There is a whole line of sherman '06 sized and saum based cartridges that are realllly turning heads.
The Sherman design performs as stated. Mine with a 28" HART drives a 140 Berger at 3339 fps with a max load of N570. Next on the list is the 147 ELD-M with R26. Should be a good combo I hope. I can see the 6.5 PRC fitting a niche. If sales are good hopefully some quality brass will be available.
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Old 02-23-2018, 12:29 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavee View Post
There are a number of great new 6.5 cartridges around these days but my take (and that's all it is) is that the 6.5 based on a short action has about maxed itself out. Now, we have heavier, longer bullets arriving that are best suited to the 6.5's based on the std long action.473 bolt face. Sierra, in a brilliant marketing move to keep these other cartridges, like the 6.5-284, 65.-06 etc. alive and well, have led off with the new 150 gr with a .713 BC. The CM (for sure) and probably the PRC do not have the ability to handle them. I believe we will soon see other offerings, maybe even heavier high BC projectiles from Berger, Nosler and probably Barnes and maybe a couple of others. All in all, I believe we will see a contiuning revival in the 6.5 caliber category right across the board ... and Hornady won't be getting all the marbles. However, thanks to them, the 6.5 is finally on the roll it deserves.
.
The 6.5 PRC will likely handle the 150 SMK but it will be seated a bit far in the case if they stick to the 2.955"COL that they have established so they will fit in the intermediate custom actions. They should do OK in a Standard Long Action or the Montana Rifle Company action that will take a COL of about 3.25". But then it may be perfect for RL 26?

This is what the 150 SMK looks like seated in my 6.5 EXTREME which was designed for the longer action. Holds about 0.2 grains less Retumbo under the bullet than the 143 ELDX when seated 0.050" off the lands. Look forward to giving them a try.
[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:50 PM
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Curly Bill Curly Bill is offline
 
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I think it’s awesome! As far as I can tell It does everything you want the 6.5cm to do (140gr bullet@3000fps) in basically the same package with the same advantages.
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Old 03-03-2018, 02:17 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Originally Posted by lclund1946 View Post
I think that Hornady got it pretty close to right with the 6.5 PRC especially with the 143 ELDX and 147 ELD Match. GAP Precision admitted early on that the Hornady 300 RCM, shortened a bit, would have been a better design than the 6.5 SAUM. That is partly due to the fact that it does not have a rebated rim, which causes some feeding problems, but likely more to do with the fact that it holds a bit too much H 1000 and Retumbo. I had designed the 6.5 EXTREME on the 300 RCM case and throated to run the 140 Berger VLD jambed into the lands and found that it actually had about 2-3 grains more capacity than necessary. The PRC is based on the 338 RCM case which is somewhat shorter in length.

I know that many think that the extra 2-3 grains of powder will give more velocity but in fact velocity drops off with the extra capacity and then has to build back up with the addition of more powder unless one has a slower powder to go to and the extra capacity to use it. The result is actually higher pressure, with very little velocity increase, unless Saami pressures are exceeded. With the 6.5 EXTREME I was at max pressure at 3100 fps with the 140 Berger ahead of 60.3 grains Retumbo. It looks like the PRC will do that with about a grain less powder and perhaps slightly less pressure?

People are reporting 3000 fps with the 147 ELD-M and over 3100 with the 143 ELD-X bullet. Others are getting 3125 with the 140 VLD and one fellow reporting 3190, "without even trying", with a 140 A-Max in a 28" barrel with RL 22. I know I would be stretching brass with that load in my 6.5 EXTREME but he likely is too. However Hornady's load data confirms that this cartridge will run well ahead of the old Swede and the 6.5 284. See link:
https://press.hornady.com/assets/sit...6.5-prc-v2.pdf
Picture shows 143 ELD-X in 6.5 PRC to OAL, on left. Next to it is 143 ELD-X seated 0.050" off the lands in the 6.5 EXTREME. The 6.5 X55, 6.5X284 and 7mm Mag for comparison.
[IMG][/IMG]

The Hybrid style Ogive of the 143 ELDX reaches the lands with the bearing surface seated down past the case neck. Shown in this picture, seated 0.050" off the lands it holds 60.7 grains of Retumbo under the bullet. I am hoping that it will meet, or exceed the 3100 fps that Hornady are showing with their max load of 59.3 grains.
[IMG][/IMG]


I got a chance to chronograph the 143 ELD-X, as shown in the above drawing, in a Rem 700 with 26" jury barrel in 8" twist. Temp was about 0 degrees and Lab Radar registered 3050 fps. with the 58.4 grain load of Retumbo. This is the same as the Hornady data with the 6.5 PRC at 58.0 and is a bit hot in this rifle as extractor left marks. I may have to look at RL33 or VV 570 so I can take advantage of the larger case in my 6.5 EXTREME, especially if I added a bit of Free Bore. This is about right as the 6.5 PRC holds about 0.4 grains less Retumbo under the bullet seated, to Max OAL, than the 6.5 EXTREME as shown if the Case capacity I used is right. It looks like this rifle will safely run the 143 ELDX to 3000 fps and that the PRC may do 3150 with a 140 bullet if pushed in a custom action. However the brass may last about as long as that in a 6.5 Creedmore pushing this bullet to 2900 fps.

[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by lclund1946; 03-03-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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