Covid Pfizer and Moderna vaccines look promising...how fair will rollout be provincially is another question

[Sundancefisher]

Everyone should reasonably expect seniors and health care workers to get vaccinated first followed by serious comorbities.

It appears Ontario and Quebec have jumped on the political horse to state exactly when and how much vaccine they get.

It will be very telling pessimistically if vaccine flows to the liberal power block provinces first or if fairness prevails equally across the country.

Interesting Moderna needs -20C storage. Pfizer needs -75C


Ontario just stated

Pfizer to provide Canada 4 million between Jan and March. Ontario to get 1.6 million.

Moderna to provide Canada 2 million between Jan and March 0.8 million to Ontario

Two doses needed 21 days apart. Lots of logistics.

[mahuna]

With the amount of people I hear saying they won't take a vaccine I don't think we will have to worry about getting enough. Pretty sad so many people have suddenly turned into anti vaxxers.

[nick0danger]

Wait in january? I mean this COVID **** sucks, but that is nut much time for more testing, what if there are long term effects we do not see yet?

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by mahuna

With the amount of people I hear saying they won't take a vaccine I don't think we will have to worry about getting enough. Pretty sad so many people have suddenly turned into anti vaxxers.

Anti-vaxxers is a term that is bandied about too lightly, in my opinion. Many make it a black-and-white issue.

Sure, there are those who reject any and all vaccines. But I would argue that that group is very small. Just like there could be a group of people that seek out and accept any vaccine that they can get a hold of.

The unfortunate aspect is that those who are selective vaccine recipients are quickly shouted down and labeled "Anti-Vaxxers" simply because they are being cautious, and have limited confidence in a relatively new vaccine.

As everyone knows, each individual should be taking responsibility for what they are putting in their own body, whether it be food, drink, drugs etc.

[Southab]

Interesting fact on how they (moderna) come up with the 94% effective figure.
- Two test groups, each of 15,000 people.
- Group A receives the vaccine and Group B receives a saline solution placebo. They then carry on with normal day to day activities.
- Group A shows a positive test in 5 people.
- Group B shows a positive test in 90 people.

I can't find where the trials were conducted but I think it's safe to assume that wherever that is there was most likely some sort of Covid restrictions in place.

[Iron Brew]

I understand taking control of what goes in your body. I understand being cautious about the vaccines. GENERALLY (note the caps locks) the people saying they are being cautious still quote the very, very discredited studies and chemical issues without knowing the real science behind those "toxic" chemicals. That is why they get labelled anti vaxer.

Me? I just would prefer the "experimentation" has happened before I take it. I'm not anti any vaccine, and there are some I'm a pretty strong propnent for (helps I don't have kids in the affected agegroups, I guess) like the HPV vaccine which has shown HUGE decreases in cancer in places like Australia. That being said I've heard about side effects but haven't researched it, and haven't looked to see if the numbers would be such that I would not vaccinate my daughter if I had one. If I had a kid I'd definitely research...

BTW - I also know things differ person to person. I have a med that gives me a nasty reaction but that to my brother is nigh on to a miracle.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by mahuna

With the amount of people I hear saying they won't take a vaccine I don't think we will have to worry about getting enough. Pretty sad so many people have suddenly turned into anti vaxxers.

So sad to see so many jump on the band wagon for a vaccine that is being rushed through for a "pandemic" with a 99.8% NATURAL recovery rate .... But spew away.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

So sad to see so many jump on the band wagon for a vaccine that is being rushed through for a "pandemic" with a 99.8% NATURAL recovery rate .... But spew away.

Got to agree with this. What's that ol saying..something something "haste makes waste".

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

So sad to see so many jump on the band wagon for a vaccine that is being rushed through for a "pandemic" with a 99.8% NATURAL recovery rate .... But spew away.

Can you post a source for your 99.8% recovery rate? I'm not disputing it, I'd just like to read a bit more as it's far lower than anything I've read. It's also important to consider the possibility of the future effects of the virus. If the vaccine is safe and effective, then it's a no-brainer.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Can you post a source for your 99.8% recovery rate? I'm not disputing it, I'd just like to read a bit more as it's far lower than anything I've read. It's also important to consider the possibility of the future effects of the virus. If the vaccine is safe and effective, then it's a no-brainer.

When it's developed so fast, with zero longer term testing, how can you know if the vaccine is safe?

[sns2]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

When it's developed so fast, with zero longer term testing, how can you know if the vaccine is safe?

You take the vaccine. If you are ok six months later, I will think about it. If you start growing boobs then all bets are off.

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

When it's developed so fast, with zero longer term testing, how can you know if the vaccine is safe?

This is a concern that many people have, including myself. I'm not in the demographic that would receive it right away anyways.

[bat119]

Covid just became very real for me.
A good friend passed this morning 8 days after testing positive, 72 years old in excellent health he never saw it coming.

Let's hope the vaccine is effective and it ends this misery.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by sns2

You take the vaccine. If you are ok six months later, I will think about it. If you start growing boobs then all bets are off.

Yeah right, guaranteed you are first in line for 4 doses if thats the case

[Howard Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by bat119

Covid just became very real for me.
A good friend passed this morning 8 days after testing positive, 72 years old in excellent health he never saw it coming.

Let's hope the vaccine is effective and it ends this misery.

>>>
So sorry to hear this. Sorry for you loss. Man

[markg]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

Anti-vaxxers is a term that is bandied about too lightly, in my opinion. Many make it a black-and-white issue.

Sure, there are those who reject any and all vaccines. But I would argue that that group is very small. Just like there could be a group of people that seek out and accept any vaccine that they can get a hold of.

The unfortunate aspect is that those who are selective vaccine recipients are quickly shouted down and labeled "Anti-Vaxxers" simply because they are being cautious, and have limited confidence in a relatively new vaccine.

As everyone knows, each individual should be taking responsibility for what they are putting in their own body, whether it be food, drink, drugs etc.

I agree with you. I am not anti Vacine. I have had many in my life. I have had the flu vacine in the past but no longer get it. I am young and healthy enough to survive a typical flu, so I think the side effects and risks outwiegh the benefits. When I am in my 60's I will take flu vaccines again. The benefits will outweigh the risks.

Does this make me an anti Vaxxe nut job? I would hope not. I just think its wise to asses risk.

[markg]

Originally Posted by bat119

Covid just became very real for me.
A good friend passed this morning 8 days after testing positive, 72 years old in excellent health he never saw it coming.

Let's hope the vaccine is effective and it ends this misery.

Sorry for your loss

[markg]

Originally Posted by pinelakeperch

Can you post a source for your 99.8% recovery rate? I'm not disputing it, I'd just like to read a bit more as it's far lower than anything I've read. It's also important to consider the possibility of the future effects of the virus. If the vaccine is safe and effective, then it's a no-brainer.

This is info from the summer from the government of Alberta

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

So sad to see so many jump on the band wagon for a vaccine that is being rushed through for a "pandemic" with a 99.8% NATURAL recovery rate .... But spew away.

Thats why onterrible and quebexico should get it first with ottawa being first in line. I can hibernate for another year.

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by bat119

Covid just became very real for me.
A good friend passed this morning 8 days after testing positive, 72 years old in excellent health he never saw it coming.

Let's hope the vaccine is effective and it ends this misery.

Sorry for your loss.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

So sad to see so many jump on the band wagon for a vaccine that is being rushed through for a "pandemic" with a 99.8% NATURAL recovery rate .... But spew away.

Actually the smart bet is for hoping for a lot of people like you. More vaccine for the rest of us. I wouldn’t want to jump ahead of a more at risk group... but happy to take your spot.

You can thank me later.

🥳

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by bat119

Covid just became very real for me.
A good friend passed this morning 8 days after testing positive, 72 years old in excellent health he never saw it coming.

Let's hope the vaccine is effective and it ends this misery.

Condolences. It is very sad to hear.

[pinelakeperch]

Originally Posted by markg

This is info from the summer from the government of Alberta

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-1...statistics.htm

Case fatality rate of 1.1% in Alberta. It's as high as 10% in some countries, and less than a percent in others. Numbers are soaring in Manitoba, and North Dakota has the highest case fatality rate in the world.

This is a serious matter. Unfortunately, no one has been able to find middle ground between holing yourself up for eternity and coughing in people's faces while telling them it's a hoax.

[Sundancefisher]

Alberta and Ontario have said they have specific vaccine numbers.

Federal government now is sowing confusion by saying they can’t confirm the amount of vaccine any province is getting.

You would think the Federal government would of figured out logistics and delivery given how much time there has been to plan.

Sounds like the Feds don’t have a clue and are half assing the delivery. Which to me makes me worry these important and expensive vaccines may be misappropriated and wasted given they need to match dosses to not only recipients but also with storage and staff to deliver it.

Especially since we are talking two doses per person.

I’m thinking the Liberals are looking for liberal friends to deliver.

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Alberta and Ontario have said they have specific vaccine numbers.

Federal government now is sowing confusion by saying they can’t confirm the amount of vaccine any province is getting.

You would think the Federal government would of figured out logistics and delivery given how much time there has been to plan.

Sounds like the Feds don’t have a clue and are half assing the delivery. Which to me makes me worry these important and expensive vaccines may be misappropriated and wasted given they need to match dosses to not only recipients but also with storage and staff to deliver it.

Especially since we are talking two doses per person.

I’m thinking the Liberals are looking for liberal friends to deliver.

I personally think that eastern liberals would make the best lab rats as all that's missing is lab.

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by The Cook

I personally think that eastern liberals would make the best lab rats as all that's missing is lab.

Don’t worry. Even most Western Liberals that I know said they would line up for it. Let all the liberals, east or west be the guinea pigs.

As to the other comment, Alberta has had 10 deaths that have had no other comorbitities (sp?). That was as of Nov 11 according to an article in the Toronto Sun. There have been 369 deaths up to that point, 73% of cases having 3 or more comorbitities.

369 deaths out of a population of 4.371 million?

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by Southab

Interesting fact on how they (moderna) come up with the 94% effective figure.
- Two test groups, each of 15,000 people.
- Group A receives the vaccine and Group B receives a saline solution placebo. They then carry on with normal day to day activities.
- Group A shows a positive test in 5 people.
- Group B shows a positive test in 90 people.

I can't find where the trials were conducted but I think it's safe to assume that wherever that is there was most likely some sort of Covid restrictions in place.

One would hope there's some sort of independent verification, before we bet the farm on it.

Grizz

[calgarygringo]

I am out in B.C. today so radio reception sucked but was pretty sure I heard some reporter ask Dr Deena how many doses we are getting and she replied a number. It was hard to make out and have not watched it online yet but I thought I heard 6 or 800k does. If that's all we are getting earlier that wont be much. Divide that by 2 and we still have almost 4.3 million people in total. Even if half get vaccinated we would still need need over 2 million doses. 6 0r 800k people getting vaccinated will just be a drop in the bucket maybe 10% of the population. that amount is not going to stop much spread. it is going to be a long time before we see any big does of this stuff out here. Hold on for another year.

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

I am out in B.C. today so radio reception sucked but was pretty sure I heard some reporter ask Dr Deena how many doses we are getting and she replied a number. It was hard to make out and have not watched it online yet but I thought I heard 6 or 800k does. If that's all we are getting earlier that wont be much. Divide that by 2 and we still have almost 4.3 million people in total. Even if half get vaccinated we would still need need over 2 million doses. 6 0r 800k people getting vaccinated will just be a drop in the bucket maybe 10% of the population. that amount is not going to stop much spread. it is going to be a long time before we see any big does of this stuff out here. Hold on for another year.

My understanding is that a dose is both parts, not just 1.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by calgarygringo

I am out in B.C. today so radio reception sucked but was pretty sure I heard some reporter ask Dr Deena how many doses we are getting and she replied a number. It was hard to make out and have not watched it online yet but I thought I heard 6 or 800k does. If that's all we are getting earlier that wont be much. Divide that by 2 and we still have almost 4.3 million people in total. Even if half get vaccinated we would still need need over 2 million doses. 6 0r 800k people getting vaccinated will just be a drop in the bucket maybe 10% of the population. that amount is not going to stop much spread. it is going to be a long time before we see any big does of this stuff out here. Hold on for another year.

It’s a low number. Health Canada is independently reviewing the efficacy and safety of the vaccines.

Some have said they want to be last versus first.

Based upon number of doses we are getting over time and who is getting it first... by the time the average person can get the dose there will be a hundred million people already having had it in the US, Europe and Asia.

I’m looking forward to getting my shot...likely at the last quarter 2021.