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Old 10-28-2020, 10:23 AM
KinAlberta KinAlberta is offline
 
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Default Pandemic Planning

Many years back (10-15 years?) on another forum I started a thread called “Pandemic Planning”. It was sad in that there was little uptake of participation unless there was an imminent threat like H1N1, etc.

So, I’ll try again here.

Your thoughts on how to actually prevent the next viral outbreak from becoming a “pandemic”.

Note: I think this forum has more “doers” than the substantially “airy-fairy” participation on the other forum. So I’m hopeful this thread leads to concrete suggestions and not silly vapid platitudes like “protect the vulnerable”.

Go for it!
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:31 AM
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Don’t protect the vulnerable!
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:32 AM
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When the next one comes, I would like to see a federal government with balls to shut down air travel from the affected areas asap and close the borders sooner to only essential needs. I think Turdo and Tam dropped the ball while trying not to offend the chinese.


Hindsight is everything so I hope the Politicians learned a thing or two this time around and better yet, remember what worked and didn't.
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:58 AM
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From our PM's mouth.. "If you're abroad, it's time to come home". IMO, It's not our governments problem to arrange flights and bring back nationals from foreign countries. A date needs to be set to stop or severely limit global incomers, regardless if they are Canadian citizens or not. Also, I know for a fact, that people were coming in from out of country after the restrictions were put in place, under the guise of being a "Critical Worker". Being a Construction Consultant from the US isn't critical in my opinion. But, CBA let them slip through on a flight.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:05 AM
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Next time around we will realize that this was just a test.

There will be more enforced compliance, tracking of individuals, etc. Lessons learned from this exercise will make coordination of population control and management much more effective, efficient and manageable.

A dictator's dream.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KinAlberta View Post
Many years back (10-15 years?) on another forum I started a thread called “Pandemic Planning”. It was sad in that there was little uptake of participation unless there was an imminent threat like H1N1, etc.

So, I’ll try again here.

Your thoughts on how to actually prevent the next viral outbreak from becoming a “pandemic”.

Note: I think this forum has more “doers” than the substantially “airy-fairy” participation on the other forum. So I’m hopeful this thread leads to concrete suggestions and not silly vapid platitudes like “protect the vulnerable”.

Go for it!
Don't vote Liberal, and eliminate "wet markets" in Asia. I guess that we could try and lock down the border like Australia/New Zealand, however we're not an island. Oh, and try to stay as active and healthy as possible. Oh, and don't send your elders to Quebec to spend their last years in care homes (although Alberta has crapped the bed as well).

Even if we did close the borders with the US, and enforce mandatory 14-day quarantine when arriving by air or sea (lock people in hotels for 14 days upon arrival), the borders cannot stay closed forever. Eventually the borders would be opened up, and all it takes is one case coming in undetected to allow whatever virus to proliferate. I have a feeling that AUS and NZ will find this out in the coming months during their summer/peak tourist season.

Maybe there will be a successful vaccine for this one, maybe not. I'm betting more on the virus mutating and weakening.

Above all else, panic. I mean panic buy, panic to your friends and family, and absolutely try to spread as much panic as you can via online forums and social media in general. This will absolutely prevent the next outbreak from becoming a pandemic, or should I say "panicdemic"
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:30 AM
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Insist they are fake, problem solved.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:49 AM
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Off top of my head...

Close borders asap. Standing critical exemption lists established in advance

Capacity build. Increase domestic manufacturing of identified critical resources and supplies

Stocking and life cycle management of PPE to include vents/masks/suits/H2O purification units etc.

Assess int sharing relationship with 5 eyes partners (especially US). Is current level working? What are our med int resources?

Testing capacity (both manufacturing and scientific expertise) developed using in house resources. This is capacity building and takes years and resource commitment to establish. Rapid, aggressive testing is key IMHO.

Routine practice of drills and SOPs

Study pro/cons of centralized federal approach vs devolution to provincial responses. Federal oversight may produce consistent data and metrics which are key to understanding an outbreak.
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner View Post
When the next one comes, I would like to see a federal government with balls to shut down air travel from the affected areas asap and close the borders sooner to only essential needs. I think Turdo and Tam dropped the ball while trying not to offend the chinese.


Hindsight is everything so I hope the Politicians learned a thing or two this time around and better yet, remember what worked and didn't.
is tam chinese?

is the Alberta second in command health guru from wuhan?

Yes to both, you figure it out
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:56 AM
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if we don't smarten up there will be no next one
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:10 PM
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Cancel trade with China.
Abolish social media.
Prosecute libelous commercial media.
Don't vote liberal.
Teach children personal hygiene rigorously.
Abolish the WHO or at least their UN association.

Got one more: Privatize health care to isolate it from politics.
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Last edited by gunluvr; 10-28-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Don’t protect the vulnerable!
Let them die? You may not care about anyone, but the rest of us do. What an ignorant reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sooner View Post
When the next one comes, I would like to see a federal government with balls to shut down air travel from the affected areas asap and close the borders sooner to only essential needs. I think Turdo and Tam dropped the ball while trying not to offend the chinese.


Hindsight is everything so I hope the Politicians learned a thing or two this time around and better yet, remember what worked and didn't.
This is bang on. Slam the doors on the planes and borders. Even for important people.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cement Bench View Post
is tam chinese?

is the Alberta second in command health guru from wuhan?

Yes to both, you figure it out
Not sure of your point. In any case, the Alberta Deputy Chief Medical Officer of Health is Marcia Johnson. As far as I can determine, anyway, and I'm fairly sure she's not from Wuhan.

So you're half right but I still don't know what there is to figure out.

Last edited by sk270; 10-28-2020 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Let them die? You may not care about anyone, but the rest of us do. What an ignorant reply.


Don’t be daft champ. I see we still need sarcasm emojis for a select few.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Don’t be daft champ. I see we still need sarcasm emojis for a select few.
Lately in a lot of your replies you are far more cynical, more harsh, not sure if it is a byproduct of the times or if you are just being yourself more,l; with your tone as of late I was not sure how to read your reply.

There was nothing amusing or thoughtful in it, and as you know many people are totally against prevention claiming this is 100% bs dreamed up by Soros or the government(s) in an attempt to further shackle people.

But thanks for the reply, 'champ'.

You select few are the reason most of the good guys have left the forum.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:54 PM
KinAlberta KinAlberta is offline
 
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Yeah i just interpret such comments as joking around. Like the one Tam who grew up under the brits, not China. Or closing the borders on China when it was also coming from Europe and the states (Quebec soring breakers coming back from Flirida). Just people being flippant.

Anyway, as usual everyone loves fighting the last war or current war and isn’t capable of thinking in terms of the next war. Just a bunch of senile old (and young) coots here I guess.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:01 PM
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I'd like to think that people who raise the question of Dr. Tam's birthplace are being flippant. Can't convince myself though.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:04 PM
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The problem is plans were made after SARS hit but no one with authority followed them. I was part of the team responsible for updating these plans when I worked at a local hospital. There were stockpiles of gloves, masks and other PPE dedicated solely for emergency use but no one followed up on expiry dates. Had the powers that be rotated through the stock piles then we would not have the mask and glove shortage we have now. Thats 100's millions of dollars that went straight into the garbage. Isolation procedures were created then but not followed today. In fact they seem to make them up as they went but by the time they realized what needed to be done again it was too late.
Politicians were too afraid to grow some balls and step up to meet the problem head on. Instead they him'd and haw'd for months to find the solutions that were least " offensive to the snowfake's" rather than what needed to be done. I know planning was done on the federal level but I can not say for sure what those measures were but I'm betting those guidelines were not followed either.

The prepper's won this round, at least they had a plan and stuck too it. They knew our government was useless and would not protect us. Hell our own PM is our worst enemy in this case.

I know ever scenario is different and you can not plan for everything but you can give yourself a general plan of attack that can be modified as you go. In our case we forgot the original plan and remade it as we went, by then it was too late.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:23 PM
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I can't control what anybody does so I do what I can for me and my family. Got a second pantry for staples (rice, flour, pasta, canned goods with at least a year best before) I don't consider myself a prepper but hey, you can't have too much of a good thing. As long as the power stays on (freezers) we could lockdown for 6 months or more and if it happens to get really bad, well we had 8 muleys and 2 elk in the yard this week, just saying.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:43 PM
KinAlberta KinAlberta is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostguy6 View Post
The problem is plans were made after SARS hit but no one with authority followed them. I was part of the team responsible for updating these plans when I worked at a local hospital. There were stockpiles of gloves, masks and other PPE dedicated solely for emergency use but no one followed up on expiry dates. Had the powers that be rotated through the stock piles then we would not have the mask and glove shortage we have now. Thats 100's millions of dollars that went straight into the garbage. Isolation procedures were created then but not followed today. In fact they seem to make them up as they went but by the time they realized what needed to be done again it was too late.
Politicians were too afraid to grow some balls and step up to meet the problem head on. Instead they him'd and haw'd for months to find the solutions that were least " offensive to the snowfake's" rather than what needed to be done. I know planning was done on the federal level but I can not say for sure what those measures were but I'm betting those guidelines were not followed either.

The prepper's won this round, at least they had a plan and stuck too it. They knew our government was useless and would not protect us. Hell our own PM is our worst enemy in this case.

I know ever scenario is different and you can not plan for everything but you can give yourself a general plan of attack that can be modified as you go. In our case we forgot the original plan and remade it as we went, by then it was too late.
Since the US showed us that we can’t trust them in a crisis and since PPEs expire, there needs to some form of stockpile. Maybe a central clearinghouse to handle some proportion of the nation’s emergency needs that wouldn’t sit unused and then just go to landfills but would be integrated into the healthcare, food distribution, transportation and other critical systems. This could create a rolling inventory to act as a buffer or stockpile. Some proportion of PPEs should be mandated to come from Canadian manufacturers who would be required to stockpile all necessary inputs in case of supply interruption. The possibility if long-storage-life PPEs should be explored.

Alberta is praised for getting lucky and acting early. What nonsense. We were so lucky that we had the right and amazing people in the jobs at the right time but all the credit belongs to those few people and not to the system.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:51 PM
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As always, human nature gets in the way. We make a stockpile, integrate it into the ready-use supply (not done after SARS), and eventually get bored, or forget, or need to save money, or need to get re-elected. We commit to open borders and trade. Then we throw the stockpile away, leave manufacturing of essential supplies and medications overseas where it's cheaper, and are unprepared for next time.

Maybe the effects of Covid-19 have been harsh enough to keep the plans being suggested foremost in our minds for a couple of decades this time. I hope.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Lately in a lot of your replies you are far more cynical, more harsh, not sure if it is a byproduct of the times or if you are just being yourself more,l; with your tone as of late I was not sure how to read your reply.

There was nothing amusing or thoughtful in it, and as you know many people are totally against prevention claiming this is 100% bs dreamed up by Soros or the government(s) in an attempt to further shackle people.

But thanks for the reply, 'champ'.

You select few are the reason most of the good guys have left the forum.
I have to agree with Ken on this one. Talking moose - you may want to to consider your worlds more carefully, particularly on a forum where tone and context can be misconstrued.
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Old 10-28-2020, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Lately in a lot of your replies you are far more cynical, more harsh, not sure if it is a byproduct of the times or if you are just being yourself more,l; with your tone as of late I was not sure how to read your reply.

There was nothing amusing or thoughtful in it, and as you know many people are totally against prevention claiming this is 100% bs dreamed up by Soros or the government(s) in an attempt to further shackle people.

But thanks for the reply, 'champ'.

You select few are the reason most of the good guys have left the forum.
you are being trolled....spit the hook...underlying issues are surfacing with the moose...after moose season things will settle down....
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:00 PM
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Hopefully for the next go around they have a plan in place to maybe better protect the vulnerable while allowing those healthy, willing and able to carry on trying to keep the rest of society still turning.

In the immediate, it is glaringly obvious after seeing the results that how our elderly and infirm in care homes and hospitals etc are taken care of is dreadfully inadequate and poorly managed. If they had that tackled better numbers would have been quite a bit reduced.

I just can't help but think of all that insane amount of money that got thrown around and wasted in so many ways could have been far better spent, and probably a whole lot less of it, if it was directed towards improving what I speak of above.

I can't pretend to think I have it all figured out, but one thing I am sure of, it wasn't doing things the way we did.
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:27 PM
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like every firsts there are lessons learnt...what worked, what didn't in order to have better preparation if required for another go around...hopefully not...here's hoping.
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:52 PM
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Have a firm course of action in place and and clamp down hard when the first cases appear, irregardless of political factors. It's the only way to control anything like this, once the genie is out of the bottle, it's too late. Trouble being, people have a firm belief science will save them and can't understand this is beyond their control .

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Old 10-28-2020, 03:09 PM
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Records are being broken here daily, it is getting worse all the time. People are losing their minds and finding they are getting attention when they are starving for entertainment. Now you can see someone daily on TV or youtube screaming at the top of their lungs that they will freak out if they have to wear a mask at the wal-mart. And that is in canada.

It sure as hell is not getting better, far worse and the idiots do not care.

edit- I love the meme that is going around;

Listen Karen, you can still leave your bra and teeth at home and shop in your pajamas, but you have to wear a mask while shopping at the wal-mart.

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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....

Last edited by Ken07AOVette; 10-28-2020 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:18 PM
KinAlberta KinAlberta is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Hooter View Post
I have to agree with Ken on this one. Talking moose - you may want to to consider your worlds more carefully, particularly on a forum where tone and context can be misconstrued.
Name a place where tone and context isn’t misconstrued. :-) The solution is usually more conversation not less. Unfortunately hostility (aka emotional breakdowns) screw up progress.

In stressful times, some people seem to get too serious and too anal and others just get funny, but I can’t imagine there ever being - too funny.

I just wish once in a while the people on either of those extremes could add something of pragmatic value. The too serious tend to be those emotional people that swing on a pendulum from never ever thinking of risk to the other extreme of surprise, fear and demanding draconian measures or pushing totally counterproductive anti-social behaviour. (The mandatory everything and the freedom from mask extremes are both those emotion driven people that foul everything up with either too much gas or not enough.)

Anyway, your expectations on what would be real preventative action and not just airy-fairy conceptual BS?

Last edited by KinAlberta; 10-28-2020 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette View Post
Records are being broken here daily, it is getting worse all the time. People are losing their minds and finding they are getting attention when they are starving for entertainment. Now you can see someone daily on TV or youtube screaming at the top of their lungs that they will freak out if they have to wear a mask at the wal-mart. And that is in canada.

It sure as hell is not getting better, far worse and the idiots do not care.
I had to go to a meeting last week (no choice) out of 35 people there, I was the only one wearing a mask (not mandatory) and trying like hell to social distance. I kept reminding myself not to judge as I knew most people in attendance so like I said in an earlier post, I look out for me and my family and just going shopping once every 2 weeks in a tourist town makes me nervous.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:32 PM
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I had to go to a meeting last week (no choice) out of 35 people there, I was the only one wearing a mask (not mandatory) and trying like hell to social distance. I kept reminding myself not to judge as I knew most people in attendance so like I said in an earlier post, I look out for me and my family and just going shopping once every 2 weeks in a tourist town makes me nervous.
I went to a Client's office today for document service, then to the courthouse and wore a mask everywhere.

I do not want to pass it on to anyone if I come in contact with anyone, just as bad as I do not want to catch it.

It annoys the hell out of me seeing people everywhere without them. Why not do such a little thing if you have to be out and about?

oh yeah- "wah civil liberties, wah wah taking away my rights, my anxiety wah wah wah'.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck
I wasn't thinking far enough ahead for an outcome, I was ranting. By definition, a rant doesn't imply much forethought.....
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