face masks

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Was in town today and at two locations staff was explaining to patrons that they need a mask...wow the attitude they got...these people are just nicely doing their job and are not there to be abused...one young lady said to me he don’t want to mess with us east coast girls...I asked to pay and get out of dodge as I didn’t need that smack down...all kidding aside just follow protocol and don’t take it out on people just trying to earn a living amongst this uncertainty.

Lot's of $230 tickets handed out in BC for not wearing a mask in a public building, and all of a sudden people are starting to wear them. LOL !!! It's amazing what a couple hundred dollar fine does to encourage people.

[KegRiver]

It;s interesting how not wearing a mask can become so important that an all out effort to force their use becomes acceptable.

While only a half hearted effort is made to reduce auto accident fatalities that claimed 36,096 lives in North America last year.

Is this mask effort justified? I wonder.

As I understand it masks are the third line of defense and not deemed necessary where social distancing can be maintained.

I'm afraid this will become offensive to a whole lot of people because of the effort to force compliance.

It's one thing to strongly advise wearing a mask in a public setting but quiet another to hand a $1,200 ticket to a family in a park for not social distancing.

As such things become more common I suspect there will be less and less compliance, and they will become more common judging by the more vocal posters here.

A reasonable response promotes compliance, an unreasonable response promotes rebellion.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It;s interesting how not wearing a mask can become so important that an all out effort to force their use becomes acceptable.

While only a half hearted effort is made to reduce auto accident fatalities that claimed 36,096 lives in North America last year.

Is this mask effort justified? I wonder.

As I understand it masks are the third line of defense and not deemed necessary where social distancing can be maintained.

I'm afraid this will become offensive to a whole lot of people because of the effort to force compliance.

It's one thing to strongly advise wearing a mask in a public setting but quiet another to hand a $1,200 ticket to a family in a park for not social distancing.

As such things become more common I suspect there will be less and less compliance, and they will become more common judging by the more vocal posters here.

A reasonable response promotes compliance, an unreasonable response promotes rebellion.

^ The above deserves an echo .. has a very nice, pleasant, common sense ring to it.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by tri777

^ The above deserves an echo .. has a very nice, pleasant, common sense ring to it.

X2

[Mr Flyguy]

Originally Posted by Trochu

X2

Echo = nothing, like the sawdust in anti-maskers heads.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Echo = nothing, like the sawdust in anti-maskers heads.

Take it to Pm !!
(is the how threads begin into shut down phase/ insulting territory)

[CMichaud]

What I don't get is why we handed out masks in March when they weren't mandatory.

Now we are told they should be 3 layer construction and are mandatory in many places yet we do not hand them out?

[powerbob]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

What I don't get is why we handed out masks in March when they weren't mandatory.

Now we are told they should be 3 layer construction and are mandatory in many places yet we do not hand them out?

The ones they handed out were the itchy ones they tried to give to the nurses first . They are 3 layer

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Mr Flyguy

Echo = nothing, like the sawdust in anti-maskers heads.

Who is anti-mask?

Just because some of us see this as excessively heavy handed does not mean we are against masks.

I always have a pack with me everywhere I go and I use them when appropriate.

But it seems that's not enough for some folks. They seem to expect everyone to accept without question every thing they believe even when it is not supported by science and not in the rules.

Remember last spring when people we going ballistic over someone walking down a street in their community?

Well those people were wrong. The walkers were following the rules.

I see that happening now with the social distancing rules and mask rules.

Those who think they have a god give right to enforce their idea of what the rules should say do more damage then any anti-masker ever will.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It;s interesting how not wearing a mask can become so important that an all out effort to force their use becomes acceptable.

While only a half hearted effort is made to reduce auto accident fatalities that claimed 36,096 lives in North America last year.

Is this mask effort justified? I wonder.

As I understand it masks are the third line of defense and not deemed necessary where social distancing can be maintained.

I'm afraid this will become offensive to a whole lot of people because of the effort to force compliance.

It's one thing to strongly advise wearing a mask in a public setting but quiet another to hand a $1,200 ticket to a family in a park for not social distancing.

As such things become more common I suspect there will be less and less compliance, and they will become more common judging by the more vocal posters here.

A reasonable response promotes compliance, an unreasonable response promotes rebellion.

Disagree Keg. But will try to type something out for a change.

1)Most things are about compliance and if you dont or cant get it you "force it". Thats the way laws work. And if a person doesnt wish to wear one(mask) they dont have to. Just have to stay out of places where they are required.

2) Really? So we dont have speed limits and other traffic regulations? I guess you can catch driving bad habits. Yes you could kill someone though. Dont see people arguing to get rid of the rules of the road though.

3) Yes it is! I dont really know what more can be said other than it is just a part of trying to make things get better. Kind of sad people cant see that and accept it for that.

4) see (3)

5)Yes it might and again, to bad people see it in that light instead of helping to make things better.

6) Trying to muddy the waters? A family from the same household is unlikely to be getting a $1200 ticket. And if someone warrants a ticket, just think you can get fined that and a whole lot more for poaching some fish or game that has no potential for harming another human being.

7) Then be more vocal for than against. That would at least be helpful.

8) I believe they are trying their best.

Sorry for all the typing.

edit- numbers refer to your paragraphs.

another edit: I get it that everyone is on edge. Nobody wants this, I sure dont! But take a breath people. We will get through it. And life will go on.

And end of my story.


One more edit: Hope I dont ever have to type that much again.

[KegRiver]

[QUOTE=huntsfurfish;4276697]Disagree Keg. But will try to type something out for a change.

1)Most things are about compliance and if you dont or cant get it you "force it". Thats the way laws work. And if a person doesnt wish to wear one(mask) they dont have to. Just have to stay out of places where they are required.

I know that's the way government sees it but does it work?

Have laws and penalties reduced drug trafficking significantly?
How about corporate crime, is that a thing of the past now?

2) Really? So we dont have speed limits and other traffic regulations? I guess you can catch driving bad habits. Yes you could kill someone though. Dont see people arguing to get rid of the rules of the road though.

Speed limits that aren't enforced do what?
On an average trip of say 100 km how many people would pass you if you did just ten km over the posted limit.

I'd bet it's over 50% of the drivers you see on that trip.

3) Yes it is! I dont really know what more can be said other than it si just a part of trying to make things get better. Kind of sad people cant see that and accept it for that.

Oh we see that and we comply but that's not enough is it. You also demand we not question any part of your idea of what the law should say and do.

4) see (3)

See the response to 3)

5)Yes it might and again, to bad people see it in that light instead of helping to make things better.

Yes it might and it's too bad people think it is an appropriate way to deal with a crisis.

6) Trying to muddy the waters? A family from the same household is unlikely to be getting a $1200 ticket. And if someone warrants a ticket, just think you can get fined that and a whole lot more for poaching some fish or game that has no potential for harming another human being.

For sure it muddies the water, because it did happen.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-f...ules-1.4950904

7) Then be more vocal for than against. That would at least be helpful.

Like I said, it seems that you want everyone dance to the beat of your drum. Not gonna happen.

8) I believe they are trying their best.

Some are and some are taking the big hammer approach.

[KegRiver]

Obviously there are situations where laws that are enforced are the appropriate way to address an issue.

There are also situations where laws and enforcement were not appropriate and not effective.

Our gun control laws come to mind.

Our seat belt laws are another even better example.

Seat belt do save lives, but they do nothing to curb bad driving.

We have a problem with too many traffic fatalities. So our government responded by making all of us responsible for surviving those accidents rather then going after bad drivers.


I see this mask enforcement as in the same class as the two examples, not as in the same class as the war on drugs.

This will make criminals out of people who are trying their best to comply, as happened recently in Calgary in the link I posted in my last post.

[huntsfurfish]

[QUOTE=KegRiver;4276706]

Originally Posted by huntsfurfish

Disagree Keg. But will try to type something out for a change.

1)Most things are about compliance and if you dont or cant get it you "force it". Thats the way laws work. And if a person doesnt wish to wear one(mask) they dont have to. Just have to stay out of places where they are required.

I know that's the way government sees it but does it work?

Have laws and penalties reduced drug trafficking significantly?
How about corporate crime, is that a thing of the past now?

2) Really? So we dont have speed limits and other traffic regulations? I guess you can catch driving bad habits. Yes you could kill someone though. Dont see people arguing to get rid of the rules of the road though.

Speed limits that aren't enforced do what?
On an average trip of say 100 km how many people would pass you if you did just ten km over the posted limit.

I'd bet it's over 50% of the drivers you see on that trip.

3) Yes it is! I dont really know what more can be said other than it si just a part of trying to make things get better. Kind of sad people cant see that and accept it for that.

Oh we see that and we comply but that's not enough is it. You also demand we not question any part of your idea of what the law should say and do.

4) see (3)

See the response to 3)

5)Yes it might and again, to bad people see it in that light instead of helping to make things better.

Yes it might and it's too bad people think it is an appropriate way to deal with a crisis.

6) Trying to muddy the waters? A family from the same household is unlikely to be getting a $1200 ticket. And if someone warrants a ticket, just think you can get fined that and a whole lot more for poaching some fish or game that has no potential for harming another human being.

For sure it muddies the water, because it did happen.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-f...ules-1.4950904

7) Then be more vocal for than against. That would at least be helpful.

Like I said, it seems that you want everyone dance to the beat of your drum. Not gonna happen.

8) I believe they are trying their best.

Some are and some are taking the big hammer approach.

I tried. But I am not going to spend more time on this. And after seeing your response to (7), I do not believe there is anything I can say to change your mind. But I am sorry you see it that way Keg.

[KegRiver]

[QUOTE=huntsfurfish;4276721]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I tried. But I am not going to spend more time on this. I do not believe there is anything I can say to change your mind. But I am sorry you see it that way Keg.

I respect that. That's a reasonable effort and response.

There may be one consolation in this for you, those who ask the questions most often wind up with the correct conclusion.

So if you are right I expect in time I will come to see it your way.

For now I have more questions then answers.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It;s interesting how not wearing a mask can become so important that an all out effort to force their use becomes acceptable.

While only a half hearted effort is made to reduce auto accident fatalities that claimed 36,096 lives in North America last year.

Is this mask effort justified? I wonder.

As I understand it masks are the third line of defense and not deemed necessary where social distancing can be maintained.

I'm afraid this will become offensive to a whole lot of people because of the effort to force compliance.

It's one thing to strongly advise wearing a mask in a public setting but quiet another to hand a $1,200 ticket to a family in a park for not social distancing.

As such things become more common I suspect there will be less and less compliance, and they will become more common judging by the more vocal posters here.

A reasonable response promotes compliance, an unreasonable response promotes rebellion.

Keg...I really don't get you sometimes...mask wearing is all part of it and that is an acceptable part of this preventative measures to slow down the spread...rebellion as you say is just the minority of poop disturbers is all...stirring the pot....now we have great people working and attempting to earn a living and yes the policy to be in thier area of employment is to wear a mask so smarten up and stop giving them and the system a hard ride....a lot more at stake than just you and I here....if you get caught being a dork then you get a ticket no different then running a stop sign etc....and sorry a lot has been done to reduce vehicle fatalities, heart disease etc....some just choose to continue on making bad decisions and yes it impacts us because it introduces tighter restrictions etc....

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Keg...I really don't get you sometimes...mask wearing is all part of it and that is an acceptable part of this preventative measures to slow down the spread...rebellion as you say is just the minority of poop disturbers is all...stirring the pot....now we have great people working and attempting to earn a living and yes the policy to be in thier area of employment is to wear a mask so smarten up and stop giving them and the system a hard ride....a lot more at stake than just you and I here....if you get caught being a dork then you get a ticket no different then running a stop sign etc....and sorry a lot has been done to reduce vehicle fatalities, heart disease etc....some just choose to continue on making bad decisions and yes it impacts us because it introduces tighter restrictions etc....

It's obvious that you don't get what I'm saying. That's because you assign meaning to what I say that has nothing to do with what I said.

First, at no time have I said people should stop wearing masks. And I did say I wear a mask where appropriate.

Second, on what grounds am I do be ticketed? For not agreeing with the narrative?

Yeah a lot has been done to reduce traffic fatalities, except what needs to be done. Go after the bad drivers.

They've forced seat belt use on us. They've improved roads, they've improved car safety but they've done nothing to address bad drivers.
In fact they've greatly reduced traffic enforcement.
It's gotten so bad that we now have a TV show dedicated to that very subject. That's how little has been done to address the REAL problem.

Get this, I'm not against mask wearing. What I am against is ruining people's lives over what could be dealt with in a gentler manner.

You may not have noticed, a lot of people are under a lot of stress right now.

Many people are cash strapped and barely getting by. Now they want to make those people pay money they don't have to support an initiative that has no science behind it.

Oh sure there have been studies done on mask use, "IN HOSPITALS"
But there is no way there could have been any studies done on mask use by the general public during a pandemic and the authorities admit there hasn't been.

Their own experts have said in the recent past that mask use by the general public is not called for and not likely to be effective.

Once again I go back to the hospitals and seniors centers. If masks are so effective why is there even one staff member in those places infected.

But there is way more then one isn't there? Actually from what I hear there are thousands. Which begs the question, just how effective are masks.

So yeah, wear a mask if you want to, advise people to wear masks if you want to. But stop with the criminalization of health concerns without solid science to back it.

On top of all that, now I hear that masks may be totally ineffective at stopping one from getting infected.

Obviously water in droplets would evaporate in minutes leaving only the virus.
We all know that. But it was thought that the individual virus particles could only survive a couple of minutes without that water to protect it.

Now they say it can survive for days by itself. By itself it only measures .125 microns. And it can remain suspended in air for days.

How is a 2 micron mask going to stop a .125 micron virus?

They say this may be the explanation for what they call super spreader events.

That is pretty much admitting that masks do not protect anyone.

That's not me saying it. It's the supposed experts saying it.

[sk270]

When people make anti-mask claims, it would be good if they backed up their assertions with actual references instead of just giving their opinions. It is difficult to interpret the large amount of material available, but we should base opinions and decisions on data, not preferences.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

They've forced seat belt use on us.

Exactly. The only way to get people to wear masks is by passing regulations and enforcing them. Education and information were not enough to get people wearing seat belts.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Many people are cash strapped and barely getting by. Now they want to make those people pay money they don't have to support an initiative that has no science behind it.

There is lots of science behind it, for example: (https://www.who.int/news-room/commen...on-precautions). Besides, I have seen masks being given away free or for sale for as little as $5.00.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Oh sure there have been studies done on mask use, "IN HOSPITALS"
But there is no way there could have been any studies done on mask use by the general public during a pandemic and the authorities admit there hasn't been.

This is clearly false. There have been many studies done in laboratories, not just hospitals. There have also been studies done on mask use by the general public. The authorities do not "admit" there haven't been any because there have been. You are the one saying this without evidence. For example: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1 or https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10...aff.2020.00818

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Their own experts have said in the recent past that mask use by the general public is not called for and not likely to be effective.

The experts have been calling for mask use for months once enough evidence became available. See citations above.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

On top of all that, now I hear that masks may be totally ineffective at stopping one from getting infected.

Please provide a citation. All the studies I have seen show the opposite.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Now they say it can survive for days by itself. By itself it only measures .125 microns. And it can remain suspended in air for days.

Please give your citation for the virus' remaining suspended for days. The longest I found was 16 hours. Thank you.

Originally Posted by KegRiver

How is a 2 micron mask going to stop a .125 micron virus?

Read the articles cited above, follow some of the references and Google a bit. I am not a health professional so I would appreciate your coming back with arguments using sources like the above citations instead of "I hear".

Thanks for any help you can provide interpreting the mass of literature on these topics.

[Sporty]

Originally Posted by sk270

When people make anti-mask claims, it would be good if they backed up their assertions with actual references instead of just giving their opinions. It is difficult to interpret the large amount of material available, but we should base opinions and decisions on data, not preferences.

I agree, I would like to see the information as well. Recent information, not something from 8 months ago.

I find that those who are opposed to mask-wearing making the same claim which is that masks do not protect the wearer so what's the point? They refuse to understand that masks aren't intended to protect the wearer, they're to protect other people.

At my place of employment, we have a plastic barrier to protect our front end staff from customers. That barrier needed to be cleaned daily because of the spittle drops all over it. It's actually quite gross, even outside of COVID, to see the amount of spittle that builds up in a day. Since we've asked our customers to wear masks inside our establishment, we don't have the spittle droplets on the barrier. That's all I need to know in regards to the effectiveness of mask wearing.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Sporty

I agree, I would like to see the information as well. Recent information, not something from 8 months ago.

I find that those who are opposed to mask-wearing making the same claim which is that masks do not protect the wearer so what's the point? They refuse to understand that masks aren't intended to protect the wearer, they're to protect other people.

At my place of employment, we have a plastic barrier to protect our front end staff from customers. That barrier needed to be cleaned daily because of the spittle drops all over it. It's actually quite gross, even outside of COVID, to see the amount of spittle that builds up in a day. Since we've asked our customers to wear masks inside our establishment, we don't have the spittle droplets on the barrier. That's all I need to know in regards to the effectiveness of mask wearing.

Since the anti-maskers don't believe the science, perhaps your experience with the build-up of fomites on the plastic barrier might convince them.

Cloth masks do protect the wearer, just not to the same extent as N95s or other respirators. I agree that they have been shown to do an excellent job of preventing the spread of the virus from infectious people.

I haven't seen much recent research on mask effectiveness, but I quit looking a couple of months ago. I do know that both CDC and Johns Hopkins websites haven't changed much over that period of time regarding mask use.

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

While only a half hearted effort is made to reduce auto accident fatalities that claimed 36,096 lives in North America last year.
.

Where'd you come up with that goofy idea?

Engineers have spent a century designing roads with safety in mind. Guard rails, speed limits, geometry have constantly advanced. Add to that the improvements in tire technology, vehicle safety, and restraints (seat belts, airbags, etc), and the effort is hardly "half hearted".

With improvements in emergency response, first aid, victim transportation, and emergency room care, your claim seems very uninformed.

Please rethink any false-equivalences you have the urge to share, in the future. Try to come up with irrelevancies that are at least half-intelligent.

[sk270]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Where'd you come up with that goofy idea?

Engineers have spent a century designing roads with safety in mind. Guard rails, speed limits, geometry have constantly advanced. Add to that the improvements in tire technology, vehicle safety, and restraints (seat belts, airbags, etc), and the effort is hardly "half hearted".

With improvements in emergency response, first aid, victim transportation, and emergency room care, your claim seems very uninformed.

Please rethink any false-equivalences you have the urge to share, in the future. Try to come up with irrelevancies that are at least half-intelligent.

And let's not forget all the efforts to stop drunk driving. Just like the resistance to wearing seat belts, this is another example that education and information are good but not enough.

It's the same with wearing face masks. We need rules, penalties and enforcement.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

It's obvious that you don't get what I'm saying. That's because you assign meaning to what I say that has nothing to do with what I said.

First, at no time have I said people should stop wearing masks. And I did say I wear a mask where appropriate.

Second, on what grounds am I do be ticketed? For not agreeing with the narrative?

Yeah a lot has been done to reduce traffic fatalities, except what needs to be done. Go after the bad drivers.

They've forced seat belt use on us. They've improved roads, they've improved car safety but they've done nothing to address bad drivers.
In fact they've greatly reduced traffic enforcement.
It's gotten so bad that we now have a TV show dedicated to that very subject. That's how little has been done to address the REAL problem.

Get this, I'm not against mask wearing. What I am against is ruining people's lives over what could be dealt with in a gentler manner.

You may not have noticed, a lot of people are under a lot of stress right now.

Many people are cash strapped and barely getting by. Now they want to make those people pay money they don't have to support an initiative that has no science behind it.

Oh sure there have been studies done on mask use, "IN HOSPITALS"
But there is no way there could have been any studies done on mask use by the general public during a pandemic and the authorities admit there hasn't been.

Their own experts have said in the recent past that mask use by the general public is not called for and not likely to be effective.

Once again I go back to the hospitals and seniors centers. If masks are so effective why is there even one staff member in those places infected.

But there is way more then one isn't there? Actually from what I hear there are thousands. Which begs the question, just how effective are masks.

So yeah, wear a mask if you want to, advise people to wear masks if you want to. But stop with the criminalization of health concerns without solid science to back it.

On top of all that, now I hear that masks may be totally ineffective at stopping one from getting infected.

Obviously water in droplets would evaporate in minutes leaving only the virus.
We all know that. But it was thought that the individual virus particles could only survive a couple of minutes without that water to protect it.

Now they say it can survive for days by itself. By itself it only measures .125 microns. And it can remain suspended in air for days.

How is a 2 micron mask going to stop a .125 micron virus?

They say this may be the explanation for what they call super spreader events.

That is pretty much admitting that masks do not protect anyone.

That's not me saying it. It's the supposed experts saying it.

Ok then I ask you this.....what is your solution to this.....start to finish....short term and long term...full disclosure on the health system and economy...a plan you put forth that will impact the provinces, country and other countries too.
Now mind you that this includes everything from start to finish so that all can have it thier way....good luck....and I look forward to this report.

What is being done right now is to keep things somewhat balanced for all....unfortunately some don't get it and some do...like I mentioned before thankful that those who get it are the majority.

Medical experts that I trust way more than an open forum have put forth simple and I mean simple protocols to slow down the spread....real easy and yup masks are part of that...just as seat belts and safer vehicles and responsible safe driving will lower the fatalities but the idiots out there make that difficult to prove so the police step in and intervene these meatheads but that is way over the top when ticketed for being a meathead and putting others in danger.....

Look forward to version of what's the proper protocols....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sk270

And let's not forget all the efforts to stop drunk driving. Just like the resistance to wearing seat belts, this is another example that education and information are good but not enough.

It's the same with wearing face masks. We need rules, penalties and enforcement.

Spot on....

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Badgerbadger

Where'd you come up with that goofy idea?

Engineers have spent a century designing roads with safety in mind. Guard rails, speed limits, geometry have constantly advanced. Add to that the improvements in tire technology, vehicle safety, and restraints (seat belts, airbags, etc), and the effort is hardly "half hearted".

With improvements in emergency response, first aid, victim transportation, and emergency room care, your claim seems very uninformed.

Please rethink any false-equivalences you have the urge to share, in the future. Try to come up with irrelevancies that are at least half-intelligent.

Yes equipment has seen major improvements over the years, what hasn't improved is our drivers. We still don't require people to retake their road tests periodically , and the result is that we have many unsafe operators on our roads. Yes certain people are required to take medicals, but passing a medical doesn't prove that they are capable of driving safely.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

What I don't get is why we handed out masks in March when they weren't mandatory.

Now we are told they should be 3 layer construction and are mandatory in many places yet we do not hand them out?

Because you could not get masks in March, they were sold out everywhere. Now people can buy masks easily. Wearing a thin single layer mask, helps keep your exhaled breath from going very far, so it protects others from you. Thicker 3 layer masks (sounding a lot like a N95 variety isn't it?) protects the wearer from others that don't take the proper precautions?

[Redhorse Ranch]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Yes equipment has seen major improvements over the years, what hasn't improved is our drivers. We still don't require people to retake their road tests periodically , and the result is that we have many unsafe operators on our roads. Yes certain people are required to take medicals, but passing a medical doesn't prove that they are capable of driving safely.

This is exactly Kegs' point. Improving survivability by manipulating the equipment is not the same as targeting the bad drivers. The anti-gunners are doing the same thing; blaming/confiscating an inanimate object instead focusing on the person (with evil intent).

By all means, wear a mask. They need to be used correctly, of course. Watch how many will fiddle with their covering and then touch things in the store. Big fines won't change that.

[sewerrat]

Wife got me a 5 pack cotton masks at Old navy for 7.99. Hate wearing masks but its something and I wont get kicked out of the store. These are washable and wont end up in a parking lot or street.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by sk270

And let's not forget all the efforts to stop drunk driving. Just like the resistance to wearing seat belts, this is another example that education and information are good but not enough.

It's the same with wearing face masks. We need rules, penalties and enforcement.

So where is the enforcement of the traffic act? What's been done about bad drivers?

You repeat the same mantra ad nauseam and you avoid answering the questions that show your stance to be nonsense.

For the rest of you, I found the links, you can too if you want to.

I see how much you research to find support for your arguments, you can certainly find the references I found, if you want to.

I'm not about to waste my time giving you links that you WILL ignore.

But I will give you two. Have fun picking them apart, as I know you will.
Because even official confirmation isn't enough for a closed mind.

From the respiratory medicine publication, "The Lancet"

Not dated but lists references as recent as June 2020

Some surgical masks might offer respiratory protection compared with not wearing a mask. Filtering facepiece respirators offer more respiratory protection than surgical masks, and powered air purifying respirator (PAPRs) hoods offer the best protection for most health-care settings.

I find it interesting that they would use the word might in this discussion and that they only seem to be referring to health care settings.

Which begs the question, if they only might offer protection in a health care setting, what is the case in a public setting?


From WHO dated July 2020

To date, transmission of SARS-CoV-2 by this type of aerosol route has not been demonstrated; much more research is needed given the possible implications of such route of transmission.

I think this explains the first quote.

I know you will try to explain these quotes away. Because they don't fit YOUR narrative.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Ok then I ask you this.....what is your solution to this.....start to finish....short term and long term...full disclosure on the health system and economy...a plan you put forth that will impact the provinces, country and other countries too.
Now mind you that this includes everything from start to finish so that all can have it thier way....good luck....and I look forward to this report.

Oh so now only those with a better plan that can comment.

Okay, let's hear your plan fist since you set the standard.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by sk270

Since the anti-maskers don't believe the science.....

Cause you do right?

https://worldhealth.net/news/why-won...sh-mask-study/