Garmin 64st vs. iPhone XR for backcountry quadding

[Red_Ram3500]

Just looking for anyone’s input regarding backcountry GPS mainly for quadding

Lots of the areas I ride are not in a cell phone service area, so the maps app on the phone doesn’t work

I just pulled the pin on a Garmin 64st with the Birdseye sat map subscription. Did some research and seems to be pretty good but lots of reviews are out of the States

I’ve also been hearing that the GPS apps available for smartphones are getting to be really good as well, so now I’m torn on whether to use the phone apps or the new Garmin.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated from anyone who’s used one or the other or both of the options I’m considering.

Thanks.


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[MountainTi]

GPS all day every day for the situation you're describing.
Battery life is poor on smart phones particularly in the cold and fringe cell service.
Also if you lose your gps, not quite as big a deal (phones usually have a lot of valuable stuff, pics ect... on them)

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

GPS all day every day for the situation you're describing.
Battery life is poor on smart phones particularly in the cold and fringe cell service.
Also if you lose your gps, not quite as big a deal (phones usually have a lot of valuable stuff, pics ect... on them)

Agree. Not too often you can't find a satellite signal but cell, different story.

[bat119]

GPS for quading the topo maps available are far more detailed than on a phone I run Backroads maps on my Montana shows trails, abandoned railways, water depth and hills much better than 20 years ago.

[Sooner]

Originally Posted by bat119

GPS for quading the topo maps available are far more detailed than on a phone I run Backroads maps on my Montana shows trails, abandoned railways, water depth and hills much better than 20 years ago.

Sorry for the slight derail. I just picked up near new Garmin that can accept the backwoods road maps. I like the books. Is the map for the gps worth it? I would love to have it on this new to me gps for when we sled the crown land. Just to see the trails and such compared to where we may be.

[bat119]

The maps are pricey but well worth the money the detail is incredible I found trails I didn't know existed. My Garmin has different profiles I use marine in my boat most lakes have depth profile lines good when going to an unfamiliar lake.
My first GPS showed blips with bread crumb trails now I can see my location on a Topo map easy to see the surrounding terrain.

https://www.gpscity.ca/videos/play/Dt9WeutmI64

[Red_Ram3500]

So mainly I’d like to use the satellite picture that is available through Birdseye (or Basecamp). I want to be able to see the trails from a sat picture, as most of the cut lines and trails are not on normal topo maps. This way I can travel my known routes, then branch off and be able to hook up to the known routes further down the trail rather than having to turn around and go back the same way. Kinda wanna know how the image quality for the sat pictures is on the Garmin. I know the quality would be good on the phone, but don’t know how well the GPS receiver is on the phone ( and I don’t want to destroy/lose my phone on the trail). Obviously the Garmin will have much better GPS receiving, but I’m interested in hearing how good the receivers are on the phones from someone who might have used a phone for the same purpose


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[JeanCretien]

Garmin ST has been good to me. It goes through batteries pretty quick when it’s cold but that’s what I’d use for sure.


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[Red_Ram3500]

Originally Posted by JeanCretien

Garmin ST has been good to me. It goes through batteries pretty quick when it’s cold but that’s what I’d use for sure.


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Thanks! Do you use the satellite imaging pictures through Birdseye?


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[Masterchief]

Originally Posted by Red_Ram3500

So mainly I’d like to use the satellite picture that is available through Birdseye (or Basecamp). I want to be able to see the trails from a sat picture, as most of the cut lines and trails are not on normal topo maps. This way I can travel my known routes, then branch off and be able to hook up to the known routes further down the trail rather than having to turn around and go back the same way. Kinda wanna know how the image quality for the sat pictures is on the Garmin. I know the quality would be good on the phone, but don’t know how well the GPS receiver is on the phone ( and I don’t want to destroy/lose my phone on the trail). Obviously the Garmin will have much better GPS receiving, but I’m interested in hearing how good the receivers are on the phones from someone who might have used a phone for the same purpose


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I bought into the Birdseye from Garmin and was very disappointed in the satellite imagery... was great in the city but as far as the backcountry, it was like looking out of a 747 at 30,000 feet, although that was a few years ago, but still, for a paid subscription, it was terrible considering the sat images that were available online at the time

[Red_Ram3500]

Originally Posted by Masterchief

I bought into the Birdseye from Garmin and was very disappointed in the satellite imagery... was great in the city but as far as the backcountry, it was like looking out of a 747 at 30,000 feet, although that was a few years ago, but still, for a paid subscription, it was terrible considering the sat images that were available online at the time

Well that’s disappointing. Can you get sat maps from any other source and download them to the Garmin? Are they comparable at least to the sat maps that are on Google maps or Apple maps that are already on my phone? I was hoping they would be half decent enough to determine cutlines and trails when I don’t have cell reception and can’t use the sat maps on Google maps or Apple maps on my phone.


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[JeanCretien]

Originally Posted by Red_Ram3500

Thanks! Do you use the satellite imaging pictures through Birdseye?


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Yup, for areas that I’m going to scout I preload. The capacity has been fine (two or three years of hunting all over), the second highest resolution is alright but not as good as the good stuff on google earth, the highest is really good but not available everywhere when you download. The deficiency hasn’t been a deterrent but you might not be able to find a trail in the bush in some areas because of the resolution. For instance, I was going down a quad size trail on a river bank and you wouldn’t have seen it on the GPS because of the thick cover/resolution. When I got back to civilization, I found you could see the trail on bing maps but not google maps so no real loss in my books.


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[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by Sooner

Agree. Not too often you can't find a satellite signal but cell, different story.

If you are using the GPS function of your phone you do not need cell service. In fact turning off the cell network on your phone when you know you won't have service is a good way to save battery life.

This does require you to pre download the maps for the area you will be in so they are available offline. Otherwise you do not need cell coverage to track yourself via the GPS in your phone.

[Red_Ram3500]

Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar

If you are using the GPS function of your phone you do not need cell service. In fact turning off the cell network on your phone when you know you won't have service is a good way to save battery life.

This does require you to pre download the maps for the area you will be in so they are available offline. Otherwise you do not need cell coverage to track yourself via the GPS in your phone.

Have you used this for the application I intend to use it for? Is the gps on the phone reliable in remote areas? Does it use one satellite, or more, does cloud cover affect it, etc?


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[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by Red_Ram3500

Have you used this for the application I intend to use it for? Is the gps on the phone reliable in remote areas? Does it use one satellite, or more, does cloud cover affect it, etc?


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I have used it for a similar application yes. Personally I use map and compass most of the time. I prefer a map and it has less chance to malfunction, quick to reference as well when you just need a general location (most of the time). There is times I use GPS however.

Times I use the GPS:

1. If I want to save a track that I am going to be returning on, or traveling frequently.

2. Save a specific location to return to or remember for other reasons, or to simply get map coordinates easily.

3. Track more exact distances travelled or how fast I am traveling.

4. Track myself relative to another person.

/**/

For #1-3 both a GPS unit and a Phone seem to work just fine in my opinion. A dedicated GPS unit has a battery life advantage and is more durable. The phone has more functionality (you would be surprised were you get cell signal sometimes). The accuracy is a wash between them I'm able to track myself to within a couple meters of my target on either. Both suffer from the same issue of bush cover rendering them inaccurate or even unusable.

For #4 I don't know of any GPS units that allow this ability. Closest I can think of is the Garmin Rino with a built in 2-way radio. That being said I didn't find it as useful as I had hoped. Was hoping to track myself relative to other hunting partners in the bush. However in practice it really only worked well in open fields were my eyeballs rendered the feature fairly moot.


TL;DR for general tracking/backtracking and location accuracy I have found little difference between them.


Edit: Forgot to answer the whole question. Yes the phone uses multiple satellites when possible. Yes it suffers from the same cloud/bush cover issues as any other GPS unit (doesn't seem any worse but not any better either).

[Jayhad]

Over the last couple of seasons I've transitioned from a GPS to my phone exclusively, it is just as accurate as a GPS unit and I haven't experienced any disruptions in service.
Without using the cell service I get 3-4 days out of my phones batteries.

[GENINC]

I use Backcountry Navigator Pro with an Android tablet for all our UTV rides. All ATVs and UTVs have 12V power and that right there takes care of the battery woes as mine is always connected. The software gives me the ability to track as well as a variety of different map sets. You can also import map sets if you like.
As far as cell service; that's not really needed as you can pre cache tile sets or map areas and then you just use gps and that's it.

I do have the backcountry maps on it as well in form of gps guided pdf files but I almost never use them to be honest. I prefer having a topo satellite picture I can see where I get myself into rather than cartoonish maps with points. We went to the six lakes area last year for instance and I planned the whole trip with that software and can actually see the campgrounds, outhouses etc on it.

I do have an ancient Garmin gps unit with me as a redundancy but I never really use it.

[Masterchief]

Originally Posted by Red_Ram3500

Well that’s disappointing. Can you get sat maps from any other source and download them to the Garmin? Are they comparable at least to the sat maps that are on Google maps or Apple maps that are already on my phone? I was hoping they would be half decent enough to determine cutlines and trails when I don’t have cell reception and can’t use the sat maps on Google maps or Apple maps on my phone.


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I'm not sure if you can upload aftermarket maps, but think it would be very tedious unless there is another provider that made it seemless to download different areas and stitch them together

[Red_Ram3500]

Originally Posted by GENINC

I use Backcountry Navigator Pro with an Android tablet for all our UTV rides. All ATVs and UTVs have 12V power and that right there takes care of the battery woes as mine is always connected. The software gives me the ability to track as well as a variety of different map sets. You can also import map sets if you like.

As far as cell service; that's not really needed as you can pre cache tile sets or map areas and then you just use gps and that's it.



I do have the backcountry maps on it as well in form of gps guided pdf files but I almost never use them to be honest. I prefer having a topo satellite picture I can see where I get myself into rather than cartoonish maps with points. We went to the six lakes area last year for instance and I planned the whole trip with that software and can actually see the campgrounds, outhouses etc on it.



I do have an ancient Garmin gps unit with me as a redundancy but I never really use it.

Thanks. I might download a gps app for my phone and try that out first rather than spending a bunch of cash on a new gps. I mostly just want a sat picture with visible trails that I can track myself on and start mapping out the trails in the areas I go to. Not concerned about A-B stuff, just trail networks.


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[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Red_Ram3500

Thanks. I might download a gps app for my phone and try that out first rather than spending a bunch of cash on a new gps. I mostly just want a sat picture with visible trails that I can track myself on and start mapping out the trails in the areas I go to. Not concerned about A-B stuff, just trail networks.


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There is an app for your smartphone called Avenza. Works with PDF maps, such as topo maps. Not sure of a source for the maps, but I'm sure a bit of digging you could find it

[GENINC]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

There is an app for your smartphone called Avenza. Works with PDF maps, such as topo maps. Not sure of a source for the maps, but I'm sure a bit of digging you could find it

I use Avenza primarily with backcountry maps and georeferenced PLUZ maps. That being said, I have yet to see any georeferenced topo pdf maps for Alberta.

[Jeron Kahyar]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

Not sure of a source for the maps, but I'm sure a bit of digging you could find it

All Canadian Topo sheets are available digitally for free. You need to pay for them if you want a printed copy only.

http://ftp.geogratis.gc.ca/pub/nrcan...r/topographic/

It is an FTP download so slightly annoying to navigate at first, easy when you know were you are going.

1. Select scale
2. Select first number on map (ie. 83e08 use 83)
3. Select letter designation (ie 83e08 use e)
4. Select the last number (ie 83e08 use 08)
5. Download your map


Edit: O.P There is a pretty decent free application called "Canada Topo Maps" to use your phone as a GPS that will auto download maps for you. It only works with Android however. There is a free and a paid version. If you are still on the fence it is free to try out see if you like using you phone or not.

[Jayhad]

doesn't Ihunter give you good enough satellite picture resolution? I can easily see game trails on my phone with Ihunter

[Red_Ram3500]

Originally Posted by Jayhad

doesn't Ihunter give you good enough satellite picture resolution? I can easily see game trails on my phone with Ihunter

Are you able to use iHunter when offline? Cause they do have decent stuff but not sure if gps works even when offline.


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