train derailment on kokanee9's route

[Crankbait]

anyone make contact with kokanee9?

[kevinhits]

Originally Posted by Crankbait

anyone make contact with kokanee9?

I sent a PM to him this morning and thankfully he was at home, but he is pretty shook up.....

Prayers to the family of the three CP workers that passed away...

[Crankbait]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I sent a PM to him this morning and thankfully he was at home, but he is pretty shook up.....

Prayers to the family of the three CP workers that passed away...

whew,,, I sent him a text. good that he's good.
condolences

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by kevinhits

I sent a PM to him this morning and thankfully he was at home, but he is pretty shook up.....

Prayers to the family of the three CP workers that passed away...

I was worrying the same thing, glad to hear he’s not involved though still saddened for those who were. Thanks for letting us know.

[Bigwoodsman]

Condolences to the families of the lost crew.

BW

[Jack&7]

I think a lot of us had that same, "Oh sh!t" feeling when we heard the news this morning. I am glad to hear that he is okay, this will be a tough time for Garth and even tougher for the families of the lost crew. Condolences to all involved.

[Husty]

My condolences to the familys and friends who lost loved ones today.

I work in a dangerous industry (as an office guy) and it never gets easier to hear someone got seriously hurt or killed just to make a pay cheque.

[marlin1]

got the same feeling as I know a guy locally running locomotives out that way yet to hear . Hoping Mitch is all good

[scesfiremedic]

RIP gentlemen

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...lway-1.5004622

[DiabeticKripple]

First thing i thought when I saw the news was if Garth is alright. Good to see he is, I was just about to send him a PM

[JB_AOL]

Condolences to the families.

Looks like it was a runaway train.

So honest question. I heard it was the air brakes failed when the train was parked. Should they not be setup like a semi? As in loose air and the brakes lock. Maybe someone here has more information as to why they don't use this type of system.

[Big Grey Wolf]

JB, sounds like the railroads could learn something from the trucking industry on brakes locking when air pressure lost. After all we had Lac Magantic which was also major loss of life. Just as you mentioned maybe some of the railroaders can explain why it may not work.

[JDK71]

it is one of the worst I have seen

[Albertadiver]

Thoughts with those that lost loved ones, and the first responders handling the crash.

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

JB, sounds like the railroads could learn something from the trucking industry on brakes locking when air pressure lost. After all we had Lac Magantic which was also major loss of life. Just as you mentioned maybe some of the railroaders can explain why it may not work.

I ran a loco in a railyard for years, when you lose air the brakes will dynamite as in a truck. What I do know is freezing temp like we have now will affect stopping as cold steel on cold steel makes for lousy traction. On freezing days like these we would pull 4 loads instead of 8 for better control of the train.

[JDK71]

it will be a long clean up some of the cars will take days to even get to

[ice]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Condolences to the families.

Looks like it was a runaway train.

So honest question. I heard it was the air brakes failed when the train was parked. Should they not be setup like a semi? As in loose air and the brakes lock. Maybe someone here has more information as to why they don't use this type of system.

When A train pressures up the the air applies the brakes and when it dump’s it’s air the brakes come off.
The reason the system is designed like this is for building train’s.
When shunting a locomotive uncoupled a car at speed to send it down a track to couple up to a set of cars on its own without the need for a person.
In a hump yard a car is rolled down a hill sent down the desired track to couple up with car’s.
If the cars were designed like trucks then when the locomotive uncoupled from a car, the air in that car would dump, the brakes would apply and the car would stop long before it made it to its desired destination.


All in all that type of braking system would hinder the process of how train’s are built because it would all have to be done manually and would take much much longer.

[ice]

I was at this derailment helping with repair’s. Worst ive ever seen.
My condolences to the families involved.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by ice

When A train pressures up the the air applies the brakes and when it dump’s it’s air the brakes come off.
The reason the system is designed like this is for building train’s.
When shunting a locomotive uncoupled a car at speed to send it down a track to couple up to a set of cars on its own without the need for a person.
In a hump yard a car is rolled down a hill sent down the desired track to couple up with car’s.
If the cars were designed like trucks then when the locomotive uncoupled from a car, the air in that car would dump, the brakes would apply and the car would stop long before it made it to its desired destination.


All in all that type of braking system would hinder the process of how train’s are built because it would all have to be done manually and would take much much longer.

So basically, because it's cheaper. Not knocking, just summarizing.

I'm curious if brake failure is a common problem with trains.

Thanks for your answers.

[Big Grey Wolf]

Ice good explanation during building a train. However could design brake switch that could be tripped when cars being rolled in hump yard??

[JB_AOL]

Another question. Is there a "parking brake"? As in, all those rail cars sitting in the yards, are they just relying on weight & gravity to sit there?

(once again forgive my ignorance).

[The Cook]

Every car has a hand break and there is a formula for how many hand breaks are to be applied when parked or when leaving a string of cars without a locomotive. We used to dynamite the string and if there were 10 cars we would apply 3 hand breaks. At times of extreme cold we would apply all. Kind of impossible on a 90 car train. Like I said I only worked in a small rail yard not the mainline.

[silver lab]

Originally Posted by The Cook

Every car has a hand break and there is a formula for how many hand breaks are to be applied when parked or when leaving a string of cars without a locomotive. We used to dynamite the string and if there were 10 cars we would apply 3 hand breaks. At times of extreme cold we would apply all. Kind of impossible on a 90 car train. Like I said I only worked in a small rail yard not the mainline.

I’m a little confused, why would it impossible to put on 90 hand brakes? Is it a revenue vs time thing? Wasn’t the Lac-Megantic train wreck caused by a run away? I guess the details will come out on this but to me it sounds like runaway trains are preventable.

[ice]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

So basically, because it's cheaper. Not knocking, just summarizing.

I'm curious if brake failure is a common problem with trains.

Thanks for your answers.

Brake failure is very rare.

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by ice

Brake failure is very rare.

Define rare..

Looks like the Lac-Megantic one was caused by "operator error" not enough hand brakes.

I'm just not sure why in this day and age, they rely on an operator to calculate how many brakes they should apply.

With a semi-style air brake system, a simple push of a button (mechanical) every brake would lock.

Re: shunting or whatever you call moving things around a railyard, why not have an air tank that they could hook to the end car, which would release the brakes and give the stored cars a shove. Not really that expensive or complicated.

Seems like CP somehow manages to skirt safety when there's no other reason except it'll cost money.

[59whiskers]

Thoughts and prayers for all the families. Railroad trades earn every penny they make under highly difficult and dangerous conditions.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Define rare..

Looks like the Lac-Megantic one was caused by "operator error" not enough hand brakes.

I'm just not sure why in this day and age, they rely on an operator to calculate how many brakes they should apply.

With a semi-style air brake system, a simple push of a button (mechanical) every brake would lock.

Re: shunting or whatever you call moving things around a railyard, why not have an air tank that they could hook to the end car, which would release the brakes and give the stored cars a shove. Not really that expensive or complicated.

Seems like CP somehow manages to skirt safety when there's no other reason except it'll cost money.

They don't rely on an operator to calculate it. It's one hand brake for every 10 cars plus one. This is a minimum.Hand brakes aren't used when hooked to a loco, only when cars are parked unattached. The braking system uses a triple valve. The air pressure both applies and releases the brakes. When cars are parked the brakes are released by dumping the air. The appropriate amount of hand brakes are what keeps the string stationary after the air is released.

If you read the story it doesn't sound like anyone skirted anything. Extreme cold caused an accident.

Looper

[JB_AOL]

Originally Posted by Looper

They don't rely on an operator to calculate it. It's one hand brake for every 10 cars plus one. This is a minimum.

Semantics.. You just told me the calc. so someone has to do it. Human error is always a risk. At any rate.

Hand brakes aren't used when hooked to a loco, only when cars are parked unattached. The braking system uses a triple valve. The air pressure both applies and releases the brakes. When cars are parked the brakes are released by dumping the air. The appropriate amount of hand brakes are what keeps the string stationary after the air is released.

I guess that posses a question then. Who said it's an appropriate amount? Why shouldn't it be every rail car?

If you read the story it doesn't sound like anyone skirted anything. Extreme cold caused an accident.

And that's fair, But I'm not picking apart "this" current situation (at least not intentionally), this is just a general concern about the system in general.

And I didn't say anybody "skirted" the system. It sounds to me like the system is broken.

[silver lab]

At what temperature should we shut down all railways? I’m sorry that is not a option. I do believe cold weather made its mark on this tragic situation but it’s could have been prevented.
I hope the TSB fixes this with sound solutions.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by JB_AOL

Semantics.. You just told me the calc. so someone has to do it. Human error is always a risk. At any rate.



I guess that posses a question then. Who said it's an appropriate amount? Why shouldn't it be every rail car?



And that's fair, But I'm not picking apart "this" current situation (at least not intentionally), this is just a general concern about the system in general.

And I didn't say anybody "skirted" the system. It sounds to me like the system is broken.

"Seems like CP somehow manages to skirt safety when there's no other reason except it'll cost money."

I'm not sure where this comes from? I believe Lac Magantic was employees not following railway protocol.

The most recent event was brake failure due to extreme cold. The train lost air pressure.

Is there some other event CP Rail was involved in that supports that statement?

Looper