Nebraska approves Keystone XL pipeline

[Sundancefisher]

Looks like finally some smart common sense decisions are being made out there.

[Scott N]

That should make some heads explode.

[CaberTosser]

This is a good thing, but its still only a portion of access to the US market, we still need to bludgeon our own legislators into approving one going to each coast in order for us to realize fair market prices instead of being monopolized by our neighbor.

[Zip]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

This is a good thing, but its still only a portion of access to the US market, we still need to bludgeon our own legislators into approving one going to each coast in order for us to realize fair market prices instead of being monopolized by our neighbor.

Yes this is true..sad really that our own decision makers on such things, don't seem to want to decide what's actually best for us at times...makes a person wonder why, what causes such stupidity..
Zip

[Jack Hardin]

They were just saying on the news that this isn't a done deal yet. Trans Canada will look at the new route to see if it's viable and profitable. When Keystone started, Oil was 3 times a much as it is today plus, Trans Canada now has to deal with all the landowners that the new route will cross.

The twining of the pipline to the BC coast will be delayed indefinitely. Although approved by the Feds, they are not interested in pushing against Provincial and Municipal opposition to it. I don't expect to see shovels in the ground in my lifetime.

[ab_hunter]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

This is a good thing, but its still only a portion of access to the US market, we still need to bludgeon our own legislators into approving one going to each coast in order for us to realize fair market prices instead of being monopolized by our neighbor.

X2

[CaberTosser]

Whatever the price of oil may be now, they can't simply build pipelines based on current pricing, that's where the long term averages and price forecasting comes in. If the pipe isn't in the ground already when the next price spikes occur, then it will be too late to capitalize upon and we'll still be stuck selling at a discount to the USA ......

The best time to build a pipeline is many years ago, the second best time to build one is right now.

[Lastmanstanding]

There are already court actions in the works by supposedly "stakeholder groups". XL pipeline is a long ways off yet.

If our own Governments can't get their poop together to get a pipeline East or West that is disgusting.

One market for our product and even that is being contested. Pretty sad!

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Lastmanstanding

There are already court actions in the works by supposedly "stakeholder groups". XL pipeline is a long ways off yet.

If our own Governments can't get their poop together to get a pipeline East or West that is disgusting.

One market for our product and even that is being contested. Pretty sad!

Someone needs to start suing these people for economic terrorism.

[79ford]

Originally Posted by Jack Hardin

They were just saying on the news that this isn't a done deal yet. Trans Canada will look at the new route to see if it's viable and profitable. When Keystone started, Oil was 3 times a much as it is today plus, Trans Canada now has to deal with all the landowners that the new route will cross.

The twining of the pipline to the BC coast will be delayed indefinitely. Although approved by the Feds, they are not interested in pushing against Provincial and Municipal opposition to it. I don't expect to see shovels in the ground in my lifetime.

Transcanada is crying to the alberta government to buy contracted capacity on the line.... I am guessing they are having a rough time filling it. Funny how they tout free market but cry for handouts from the government while firing every worker that isnt bolted down.



They are trying to get 375 000 barrel commitment from the alberta government so the line is almost half empty if they were to build it.... and it is a direct ride to cushing which probably isnt a very appealing ride to throw your oil on if you own an oil company.

The credit is probably alittle tougher to get when all your shippers probably arent making money. They need how ever many billions to build the thing and put up with the delays so it ll be a tough sell to shove out bonds with a small coupon.

[Drewski Canuck]

Who really cares about Keystone XL???

There already is considerable capacity on the existing lines that are collecting all the northern states production, which will keep the US lines full for a long time. Apparently, the existing Keystone line comes within 30 km of the Sask border already.


Importing Canuck Oil from the oil sands will not be in demand until the US production starts dropping off from the tight shale plays. That could take 20 years.

But in the mean time, we will still ship oil by tanker car to the west coast and anywhere else that they can sell it. Rail is the only way around all the protesters for oil delivery in the short term, and probably the long term.

Drewski

[CaberTosser]

Drewski, on that note:

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topst...jBr?ocid=ientp


Kind of makes you realize why Warren Buffet was loading up on railways, no?

[79ford]

If you look back into the early days of oil in north america it was the railway barons gouging the producers until you had standard oil and other companies build some pipelines. Thats a 150 year old sore spot between the two groups.

Assuming there is enough meat on the bone to pay for rail shipping ( which there currently isnt) railing stuff is alittle more fuel intense which isnt entirely horrible.

I think from a pipeline stand point you can make more money with a full line everyone wants to get in on vs building new lines that may end up half full for a decade or more. The tarsands doesnt really pay off right now to sink more money into so there will probably be a long long time of licking wounds before anyone dumps more money into those operations lol.

[Map Maker]

Originally Posted by Drewski Canuck

Who really cares about Keystone XL???

There already is considerable capacity on the existing lines that are collecting all the northern states production, which will keep the US lines full for a long time. Apparently, the existing Keystone line comes within 30 km of the Sask border already.


Importing Canuck Oil from the oil sands will not be in demand until the US production starts dropping off from the tight shale plays. That could take 20 years.

But in the mean time, we will still ship oil by tanker car to the west coast and anywhere else that they can sell it. Rail is the only way around all the protesters for oil delivery in the short term, and probably the long term.

Drewski

Isnt the big push for keystone xl, to get off reliance of middle east oil?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by 79ford

Transcanada is crying to the alberta government to buy contracted capacity on the line.... I am guessing they are having a rough time filling it. Funny how they tout free market but cry for handouts from the government while firing every worker that isnt bolted down.



They are trying to get 375 000 barrel commitment from the alberta government so the line is almost half empty if they were to build it.... and it is a direct ride to cushing which probably isnt a very appealing ride to throw your oil on if you own an oil company.

The credit is probably alittle tougher to get when all your shippers probably arent making money. They need how ever many billions to build the thing and put up with the delays so it ll be a tough sell to shove out bonds with a small coupon.

You have no clue. really, you don't. The Alberta government has oil they have to move. No "handouts" involved. And TransCanada's credit is just fine. They have no problems raising money for projects. And the project has enough subscriptions to move ahead.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle36977103/

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You have no clue. really, you don't.

Sorry 79. No need for me to get snooty. Too late to edit.

[alpinebeers]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Sorry 79. No need for me to get snooty. Too late to edit.

No you were bang on Oko. Some people just dont get it

[79ford]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You have no clue. really, you don't. The Alberta government has oil they have to move. No "handouts" involved. And TransCanada's credit is just fine. They have no ry/why-alberta-should-commit-to-a-keystone-xl-contract/article36977103/[/URL]

You just posted a link saying what I was saying.... the credit of the shippers sucks and thats why transacanada needs the alberta government to hand them some help.

[alpinebeers]

Originally Posted by 79ford

You just posted a link saying what I was saying.... the credit of the shippers sucks and thats why transacanada needs the alberta government to hand them some help.

Please explain where Transcanada is asking for handouts from the government like you said in your first post?

You clearly have no idea how pipelines are contracted and how the commitments are secured.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mac1983]

How about refining that bitumen here then we don't need bitumen pipelines.
Nobody want's our bitumen, without a huge discount, but the byproducts will always be in demand. Come on people... Transcanada wants alberta's bitumen because if they decide to refine it in alberta they wont get their tolls from us.

[79ford]

Originally Posted by alpinebeers

Please explain where Transcanada is asking for handouts from the government like you said in your first post?

You clearly have no idea how pipelines are contracted and how the commitments are secured.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you read the article posted by okotokian you would understand what I am getting at.

Heres one of the articles, there's another one in the herald. You rely on shipping commitments to get financed and your shippers kinda become your credit worthyness for the project as transcanada will rely on cenovus,cnrl, and other oilsands players for the next 20-50 years to get their money back.




https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...stone-capacity

[alpinebeers]

Originally Posted by 79ford

If you read the article posted by okotokian you would understand what I am getting at.



Heres one of the articles, there's another one in the herald. You rely on shipping commitments to get financed and your shippers kinda become your credit worthyness for the project as transcanada will rely on cenovus,cnrl, and other oilsands players for the next 20-50 years to get their money back.









https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...stone-capacity

I've read both articles. I'm still waiting for you to show me these so called hand outs??

The APMC is no different then any other oil company in Alberta. They have bbls that need to get to market. TransCanada would be foolish to not approach them about contracting space just the same as they have every other company.

So once again please show me where TC is asking for handouts from the government.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by 79ford

If you look back into the early days of oil in north america it was the railway barons gouging the producers until you had standard oil and other companies build some pipelines. Thats a 150 year old sore spot between the two groups.

Assuming there is enough meat on the bone to pay for rail shipping ( which there currently isnt) railing stuff is alittle more fuel intense which isnt entirely horrible.

I think from a pipeline stand point you can make more money with a full line everyone wants to get in on vs building new lines that may end up half full for a decade or more. The tarsands doesnt really pay off right now to sink more money into so there will probably be a long long time of licking wounds before anyone dumps more money into those operations lol.

Did you not read your own article? Oil sands production is surging.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by alpinebeers

I've read both articles. I'm still waiting for you to show me these so called hand outs??

The APMC is no different then any other oil company in Alberta. They have bbls that need to get to market. TransCanada would be foolish to not approach them about contracting space just the same as they have every other company.

So once again please show me where TC is asking for handouts from the government.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He doesn't understand paying fees to use a pipeline is not a handout.