i don't understand why he shot this particular animal

[Walleyes]

The opening quote on this thread was ( i don't understand why he shot this particular animal )

Well I do,, the fricken rush man.. Can you imagine what it would be like to face down an animal like that with a string and stick,, holy crap.. I say cudos to anyone with enough adventure and guts to do it.. If anyone that calls themselves a hunter can't understand that then to bad.. I know I wouldn't try and justify myself to them.. Hey the day hunting gets to be that damn boring to me that its just about the meat and the meat only and it looses the thrill of the kill then I'll be done.. And that ain't going to happen.. This guy went to a country that needed help controlling its wildlife population and he did his job and in the mean time he got without a doubt a rush that would make the average hunter pass out or pi$$ their pants either way he deserves our respect and congrats for his accomplishment..

And with that being said who cares what the PETA freaks will say they are going to say something about it regardless of what is being killed, your Bambi 175 buck from Two Hills or a dangerous game animal from Africa... Because when I see an Elaphant I don't see Dumbo I see a huge kick ***** animal that can crush you... And I would be thinkin,, Boys were going to need a bigger gun....

Originally Posted by Walleyes

The opening quote on this thread was ( i don't understand why he shot this particular animal )

Well I do,, the fricken rush man.. Can you imagine what it would be like to face down an animal like that with a string and stick,, holy crap.. I say cudos to anyone with enough adventure and guts to do it.. If anyone that calls themselves a hunter can't understand that then to bad.. I know I wouldn't try and justify myself to them.. Hey the day hunting gets to be that damn boring to me that its just about the meat and the meat only and it looses the thrill of the kill then I'll be done.. And that ain't going to happen.. This guy went to a country that needed help controlling its wildlife population and he did his job and in the mean time he got without a doubt a rush that would make the average hunter pass out or pi$$ their pants either way he deserves our respect and congrats for his accomplishment..

And with that being said who cares what the PETA freaks will say they are going to say something about it regardless of what is being killed, your Bambi 175 buck from Two Hills or a dangerous game animal from Africa... Because when I see an Elaphant I don't see Dumbo I see a huge kick ***** animal that can crush you... And I would be thinkin,, Boys were going to need a bigger gun....

Trust you to get right to the point Walleyes! Thanks....we need that injection of reality!

[209x50]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

The opening quote on this thread was ( i don't understand why he shot this particular animal )

Well I do,, the fricken rush man.. Can you imagine what it would be like to face down an animal like that with a string and stick,, holy crap.. I say cudos to anyone with enough adventure and guts to do it.. If anyone that calls themselves a hunter can't understand that then to bad.. I know I wouldn't try and justify myself to them.. Hey the day hunting gets to be that damn boring to me that its just about the meat and the meat only and it looses the thrill of the kill then I'll be done.. And that ain't going to happen.. This guy went to a country that needed help controlling its wildlife population and he did his job and in the mean time he got without a doubt a rush that would make the average hunter pass out or pi$$ their pants either way he deserves our respect and congrats for his accomplishment..

And with that being said who cares what the PETA freaks will say they are going to say something about it regardless of what is being killed, your Bambi 175 buck from Two Hills or a dangerous game animal from Africa... Because when I see an Elaphant I don't see Dumbo I see a huge kick ***** animal that can crush you... And I would be thinkin,, Boys were going to need a bigger gun....

AMEN brother, amen.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

FYI 700TI, Bella shot the bear a minimum of 6 times and I don't think she ever claimned it was the ideal grizzly weapon...just the only one she had in her hand at that time. But I'll kick in for the shells if 209 is sending the gun!

Shells? What's this shells thing? I was giving him 1 as in a shell. You tossing in 5 extra?

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

And I think irregularities in the law like that should be mentioned as it will save him answering a whole lot of letters later. It just seems to me that some things like the hunter has a licence, the hunt is being conducted in an area where populations are sufficient and the meat will be fully utilized shouldn't have to be said to a viewership that's supposedly comprised of suposedly educated hunters. It would seem common sense to me but what do I know.

Never take the knowledge of the audience for granted.

I do a lot of technical presentations to people from all walks of life, with all different levels of technical proficiency, it's a big part of my job, and that's one thing I learned very early on. Always gear the presentation to the lowest common denominator, don't be insulting, but keep it general and simple, and then increase the complexity as you gain an understanding of the audience. What seems like common sense/common knowledge to you might have never occurred to someone else, everyone comes to the table with a different level of understanding.

Sure the vast majority of people watching WildTV are avid hunters, but you can bet some aren't too, and those are the ones that need the extra attention.

It's kind of like a court of law in a way, what you say/do can and will be used against you.

Waxy

Hey Humper, I see you got a tag team partner. good on ya.

You never know but, I didn't say Bella claimed anything. I was using this example to show that a small weapon, (yes, yours included) could claim a large mammal. So, the bear had 6 holes in it's head, I guess a .22 is sufficient for griz hunting as long as you use 6 cartridges. (shells are used in shotguns).

It's a comparison to a crossbow being used on an Elephant. I don't think it is "ethical". But, I guess I am not entitled to an opinion. I sure get tired of explaining things to writers. I never have to explain to readers.

Wise words waxy...I just always thought even the lowest common denominator in a room full of hunters would understand that the hunter is licenced....he is hunting an area where game populations are sufficient and the meat will be utilized. On the Discover Channel maybe not but these are hunters. How low is that common denominator?

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wise words waxy...I just always thought even the lowest common denominator in a room full of hunters would understand that the hunter is licenced....he is hunting an area where game populations are sufficient and the meat will be utilized. On the Discover Channel maybe not but these are hunters. How low is that common denominator?

This is an outdoorsman forum and the episode caused a stir, so imagine based on that just how low the denominator really is...

Waxy

[Donny Bear]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wise words waxy...I just always thought even the lowest common denominator in a room full of hunters would understand that the hunter is licenced....he is hunting an area where game populations are sufficient and the meat will be utilized. On the Discover Channel maybe not but these are hunters. How low is that common denominator?

Sometimes dem dare denominators can be real low sheep

I was just waiting to see how long it would take for Brad to start getting hate mail on his coyote post in the hunting forum...not long. Now what disclaimer do we add to his post to make it palatable to those that criticize him. Should he have begun the post with a lesson on predator management and it's importance to ungulates? Elephants...coyotes...does and bucks...it doesn't matter...hunting is hunting and there are those that wll criticize no matter what. I just hate see it from within. There is no diclaimer long enough....ugh

Originally Posted by Waxy

This is an outdoorsman forum and the episode caused a stir, so imagine based on that just how low the denominator really is...

Waxy

Ya, I'm starting to realize that waxy....ugh

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Wise words waxy...I just always thought even the lowest common denominator in a room full of hunters would understand that the hunter is licenced....he is hunting an area where game populations are sufficient and the meat will be utilized. On the Discover Channel maybe not but these are hunters. How low is that common denominator?

Sheep I didn't say that hunter wasn't liscenced or that there is not a sufficient population I am just saying that a little extra info never hurt anyone. I have been hunting for the better part of my life and never knew where the meat from and african safari went, I also never imagined that it would be wasted. but thank you for putting words in my mouth, i really appreciate it.

[Bull Shooter]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

And I would be thinkin,, Boys were going to need a bigger gun....

Walleyes, I would be thinking, Boys, we're going to need a bigger frying pan! Regards, Mike

Originally Posted by 340wtby

Sheep I didn't say that hunter wasn't liscenced or that there is not a sufficient population I am just saying that a little extra info never hurt anyone. I have been hunting for the better part of my life and never knew where the meat from and african safari went, I also never imagined that it would be wasted. but thank you for putting words in my mouth, i really appreciate it.

Huh? How did I put words in your mouth when that reply was to waxy???

I wasn't putting words in anyone's mouth....my point was just where do you stop with the basic info? I definitely wasn't pointing a finger at you.

[Bull Shooter]

Originally Posted by 340wtby

Sheep I didn't say that hunter wasn't liscenced or that there is not a sufficient population I am just saying that a little extra info never hurt anyone. I have been hunting for the better part of my life and never knew where the meat from and african safari went, I also never imagined that it would be wasted. but thank you for putting words in my mouth, i really appreciate it.

340, I agree with you and that has been my point throughout the thread. A little more information or background on the hunt would have mitigated a great deal of the controversy. Unfortunatley, it appears controversy sells and the sponsors love it, so to hell with what the non-hunting public thinks of us as long as the sponsors sell lots of guns, ammo and camo clothing. Sort of reminds me of a marketing concept called "Planned Obsolescence". Regards, Mike

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Huh? How did I put words in your mouth when that reply was to waxy???

I wasn't putting words in anyone's mouth....my point was just where do you stop with the basic info? I definitely wasn't pointing a finger at you.

Post 90 you are quoting me.

That's not the one you referenced above...anyhow, sorry if you took it wrong, I was most definitely not putting words in your mouth or even saying you didn't know those things...I was just throwing a question out for the group. Sorry if you misunderstood. Please read my response again...I responed to you about the ptarmigan show and then posed a question based on the entire viewership....most definitely not pointing fingures at you and trust me, I get enough words stuck in my mouth that I'm not about to do it to someone else.

[Huntnut]

I really don't understand what all the hubbub is about. Let's see some guy stood probably 30 yds-(I didn't see the show) from a 5 ton animal that could squash him like a bug and he killed it with 1 shot from a crossbow. How is this any differant then if he used a 416 weatherby. It died humanely and nothing was wasted. Some here are calling the shooter unethical because he used a crossbow. Well if he had the balls to try it-more power to him. Fred bear probably did more good for the archery industry then anyone and I think he was the first to shoot an elephant with a bow. Was he unethical?? Not a snowballs chance in he!! was he unethical, so how is this any differant?? Give the guy his props and let it be.

Good points huntnut and that brings up the next qestion.....on what size animal is a crossbow ethical if it's not on an elephant. And for those that make references to rifles or .22s, please save them...we are talking archery gear here and the performance comparisons are far different. In the case of archery gear, you need an arrow and broadhead that will penetrate far enough to cause enough bleeding for the animal to die or for the lungs to be collapsed. I did see the video and the crossbow got the job done but for those that think it wasn't etical, please, at what size animal does it become ethical?????

[nekred]

Because he had the opportunity,means,motive and cojones...legally!...

[Bull Shooter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Good points huntnut and that brings up the next qestion.....on what size animal is a crossbow ethical if it's not on an elephant. And for those that make references to rifles or .22s, please save them...we are talking archery gear here and the performance comparisons are far different. In the case of archery gear, you need an arrow and broadhead that will penetrate far enough to cause enough bleeding for the animal to die or for the lungs to be collapsed. I did see the video and the crossbow got the job done but for those that think it wasn't etical, please, at what size animal does it become ethical?????

If the crossbow is legal and the hunting is lawful, then you are good to go. I think any questions with regard to ethics are revealed in the hunting situation such as distance, shot placement, etc. Of course, your own personal ethics may preclude you from engaging in a legal or lawful activity but that again is a matter of choice and I would hope for mutual respect. It may be very different hunter to hunter. Regards, Mike

[nekred]

Howard Hill was first white man in modern history to shoot and kill an elephant with one arrow. Fred Bear did it later.

HOWARD HILL
1900-1975
Archer, hunter, author, showman, adventurer.

Born in Vincient, Alabama, Nov. 13,1900. Howard Hill was to archery as Babe Ruth was to baseball. Early in his life he moved to Southern California where he remained until he retired in the late 1960's.
Some of Howard Hill's accomplishments with a bow were:
- Shot exhibitions in 3 world fairs, 5 Wild West shows and 14 major sportsmen s shows.
- In 1941 drew 35,000 spectators in Grants Park, Chicago, where the crowd literally tore the shirt off his back, and took his arrows, bow and quiver for souvenirs.
- Produced 23 short subjects about archery for Warner Brothers.
- Filmed "Tembo" in Africa, shown in 57 countries and 7 different languages.
- Published 2 books, "Hunting The Hard Way" and "Wild Adventure".
- Did all the shooting for such movies as: "Robin Hood", "Buffalo Bill", "They Died With Their Boots On" plus many others.
- Hunted in 12 countries taking over 2,000 game animals.
- First white man to take an elephant with bow and arrow.
- Won 196 field archery tournaments in a row.
- Wrote the first set of Archery Golf Rules in 1928.
- Won seven national archery golf tournaments.
- Set flight record of 391 yds. 1 ft. 11 in. on 2/26/28.
- Pulled heaviest bow on record by any man, 172 lbs.

THE ELEPHANT STORY
Howard Hill has been asked many times to tell the facts on bagging an elephant with a bow and arrow.
Following is a list of questions and answers.
How many elephants did you bag? 3
How many arrows did it take for all three? 4
How heavy a bow did you use? 115 lbs.
Was this a hand drawn bow? Yes
Did you use an explosive tip or poison on the tip of the arrow? No
How long an arrow did you use? 41" with a special designed broadhead
How much did the broadhead weigh? 1700 grains
How much penetration did you get? 31.5"
Where is the best place to hit an elephant? Between the ribs into the heart or lungs
How much did the elephant weigh? 10,000 lbs.

Originally Posted by Bull Shooter

340, I agree with you and that has been my point throughout the thread. A little more information or background on the hunt would have mitigated a great deal of the controversy. Unfortunatley, it appears controversy sells and the sponsors love it, so to hell with what the non-hunting public thinks of us as long as the sponsors sell lots of guns, ammo and camo clothing. Sort of reminds me of a marketing concept called "Planned Obsolescence". Regards, Mike

Bull Shooter...you the synic? Anyhow, I can guarantee that Bill was not looking for controversy and with the success of his business, he's not too worried if this trip sold more bows or not. It was a personal quest for him that I encouraged him to share with the public on television. I thought other hunters would celebrate his journey of self discovery and applaud his frank and honest demeanour. Just out of curiosity, what was it that you saw in the program that you didn't like? Any parts of it that you think portrayed hunting well?

.

Lurch, I'd be interested to know what more could have been included in the show and what parts of it you think portrayed hunting really well? I didn't video the hunt but did edit it and I'm curious as to what your thoughts are after watching it?

[Donny Bear]

I believe it becomes unethical when the individuals ability to make a clean kill is exceeded so back to square one because it is obvious that our hunter was within his abilities. Ethically I would be willing to take anything on the african continent with a bow eccept for the big five and Croc and in fact I would go for the Leopard given the chance but fear alone would prevent me from tackling the Cape Buf, Lion, the big E, Hippo or Rhino. Saying that I would not be worried as much with a 375 or My Fav 416 but the fact that I have made the hunt safer for me and eliminated my fears (so Im a Chicken ) does not make me more ethical unless that is my sole motivation which for me would be bogus because I would rather be known as the guy who mad a clean kill on a Bull Elephant with a sharp stick that lived to talk about it and did'nt even have to clean his shorts.

[Waxy]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I didn't video the hunt but did edit it

The plot thickens...

Waxy

[Bull Shooter]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Bull Shooter...you the synic? Anyhow, I can guarantee that Bill was not looking for controversy and with the success of his business, he's not too worried if this trip sold more bows or not. It was a personal quest for him that I encouraged him to share with the public on television. I thought other hunters would celebrate his journey of self discovery and applaud his frank and honest demeanour. Just out of curiosity, what was it that you saw in the program that you didn't like? Any parts of it that you think portrayed hunting well?

Sheep, I have absolutely no problem with Bill or his accomplishment. None whatsoever and it truly is a remarkable accomplishment! I just wish that the producers would have spent some time explaining some of the finer points of the hunt to the general viewer. I know some of you are surprised by this, but we don't all have the benefit of knowing the hunting situations in Africa... and I have had greater exposure than most. Because it was truly a unique hunt, the producers could have done a better job in setting things up and allowing Bill the accolades he really deserved rather than encumber him with this needless controversy. And it was needless. Regards, Mike

[209x50]

Originally Posted by nekred

Howard Hill was first white man in modern history to shoot and kill an elephant with one arrow. Fred Bear did it later..

Dang! I forgot about Howard. I stand corrected thank you nekred!

Originally Posted by Bull Shooter

Sheep, I have absolutely no problem with Bill or his accomplishment. None whatsoever and it truly is a remarkable accomplishment! I just wish that the producers would have spent some time explaining some of the finer points of the hunt to the general viewer. I know some of you are surprised by this, but we don't all have the benefit of knowing the hunting situations in Africa... and I have had greater exposure than most. Because it was truly a unique hunt, the producers could have done a better job in setting things up and allowing Bill the accolades he really deserved rather than encumber him with this needless controversy. And it was needless. Regards, Mike

So what parts did you like or weren't there any. What would you have rather seen left out and a segment about the finer points inserted. Don't you think Bill did a good enough job explaing most aspects of the hunt during the hunt? I'll admit little mention of the meat was made but you seem to be saying that other things were missing. I'm truly curious.