i don't understand why he shot this particular animal

[mooseburger]

i was watching wild tv last week and a guy, on there was hunting a bull elephant with a crossbow. although he was sussessfull it sickened me to watch it. i have hunted all my life and used to trophy hunt, so i understand most trophy hunters quests. this guy was joyus to say the least and was pondering whether or not he was the only guy to shoot this type of animal with a crossbow. there was no mention of where the animal was to end up. or whether the meat was to be used or not, or even if he took the head for a mount.
in the end all this did was leave a bad and bitter taste, and i thought if the people from peta were to see this.well we all would know where that would go.
on a more pleasent note, i would like to take the opportunity to wish every one a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year......From The Mooseburger Family

think that one was the owner of Excalibur crossbows. usually the meat goes to the local village

[Bushmaster]

And I'm not positive, but I think he was the first to take an elephant with a xbow.

And although I hunt with a variety of weapons (just bought a xbow), hunting elephants holds zero interest for me.

It was Bill Trowbridge from Excalibur crossbows that shot it and he quite likely was the first to do so....quite the feat I'd say. The length alloted to the segment prevented going into detail about what happened to the elephant after but it was welcome meat for a local village that relies heavily on sport hunting for basically all of their meat. There is a large excess of elephants in the area Bill hunted and they are becoming quite dangerous and aggressive and hunting is one way of curbing that. I'm sure if people from Peta see any hunting show they are offended so I would worry to much about them. Bill is one of the most ethical hunters I know and everything on that hunt follwed the strictest code of fair chase and all of the elephant was indeed used. Unfortunately, the time alloted for each show only permitts so much of the story to be told and as that one spanned 10 days....compressing it into those few minutes did not allow for everything to be shown.

While likely not a hunt for everyone...it was a dream for Bill and it was a hard but well-earned trophy that he has every right to be proud of.

[Bushmaster]

Here's a blip of the story from the excalibur forum.....

ELEPHANT PRESS RELEASE

In April of this year history was made when what is believed to be the very first Elephant to be killed with a crossbow in modern times was harvested in Zimbabwe on the eastern shores of Lake Kariba. Bill Troubridge, president of Excalibur Crossbow, took the mature bull Elephant with one arrow on the ninth day of a grueling hunt with PH Carl Mason of African Trails in the Omay tribal region of Zimbabwe. This area is home to one of the largest concentrations of Elephant in Southern Africa, and damage to the vegetation and local crops encourages herd reduction there through sport hunting. "Initially this hunt started out as a quest to demonstrate the effectiveness of our recurve limb crossbows" said Mr. Troubridge, "but it truly ended as a life altering experience". Over a hundred natives from nearby fishing village shared the bounty provided by almost 4000 pounds of boned meat from the downed bull.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by mooseburger

i was watching wild tv last week and a guy, on there was hunting a bull elephant with a crossbow. although he was sussessfull it sickened me to watch it. i have hunted all my life and used to trophy hunt, so i understand most trophy hunters quests. this guy was joyus to say the least and was pondering whether or not he was the only guy to shoot this type of animal with a crossbow. there was no mention of where the animal was to end up. or whether the meat was to be used or not, or even if he took the head for a mount.
in the end all this did was leave a bad and bitter taste, and i thought if the people from peta were to see this.well we all would know where that would go.
on a more pleasent note, i would like to take the opportunity to wish every one a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year......From The Mooseburger Family

I'm curious how his hunt sickened you , but your own hunting isn't sickening to you?

[AbAngler]

Bill has personally helped me out when I had an issue with my xbow. He's a class act.

Heck of a buck taken just before the elephant, but man, was that guide/host ever ugly!!

[BrownBear416]

I have no problem with the killing of elephants and have seen videos where an african village can turn an elephant to a pile of cleaned bones in a few hours so i dont think much is wasted.

I think the story of this hunt is in the latest Peterson's Hunting.

He made an excellent shot but i still think it is pretty risky hunting elephants with any kind of stick and string setup.

A few years ago Chuck Adams did a big test on whether Elephants could be killed ethically while using archery tackle.I think he was using a 90 to 100 pound bow shooting something like 900gr arrows.Due to elephants ribs being 3+inchs thick he figured that only 1 out of every 3 shots would slip between the ribs and into the vitals.A fact that he proved when he made a perfect shot behind the shoulder on a large male elephant and had his arrow stop dead as soon as it encountered the ribs.The elephant later had to be tracked and shot with a rifle.

My 2 cents.

[LongDraw]

Please tell me what the difference is killing an elephant where there is an abundance of them raiding crops, uprooting trees, and creating havoc for the local villagers and killing a cow elk that is knocking down fences and hitting a farmers stack in rural Alberta?

And by the way I did watch Bambi when I was a youngster, yet I still love how deer taste!

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by 209x50

I'm curious how his hunt sickened you , but your own hunting isn't sickening to you?

X2
I haven't seen the show/hunt in question, but if it was a humane kill, which it sounds like it was, the meat was utilized, which it also sounds like it was, and the hunt was legal and done in a fair chase setting, what's the problem?

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by BrownBear416

I have no problem with the killing of elephants and have seen videos where an african village can turn an elephant to a pile of cleaned bones in a few hours so i dont think much is wasted.

I think the story of this hunt is in the latest Peterson's Hunting.

He made an excellent shot but i still think it is pretty risky hunting elephants with any kind of stick and string setup.

A few years ago Chuck Adams did a big test on whether Elephants could be killed ethically while using archery tackle.I think he was using a 90 to 100 pound bow shooting something like 900gr arrows.Due to elephants ribs being 3+inchs thick he figured that only 1 out of every 3 shots would slip between the ribs and into the vitals.A fact that he proved when he made a perfect shot behind the shoulder on a large male elephant and had his arrow stop dead as soon as it encountered the ribs.The elephant later had to be tracked and shot with a rifle.

My 2 cents.

There was a story a few years back in the SCI magazine where a young fellow hunting elephant with a bow got a complete pass thru!

I am sure many a PH has had to finish elephants off that were shot initially with big bore rifles as well.....

I've had some long conversations with Bill about his hunt and I think that despite the fact that he made a one-shot kill with no follow up required, that any archery grear, crossbow or not is not the ideal elephant weapon in his opinion. They had some very close calls on this hunt including a couple near-fatal charges and when he says in the press release that "it truly ended as a life altering experience", that's no BS. Bill is one of those guys that loves to sit down and talk hunting and having spent considerable time with with him and Kath, I'd suggest listening!

Moose, I think when you state that certain types of legal/ethical hunting sicken you......how much longer is it before all types of hunting sicken you? Peta will never like what we do and you can bet the doe or buck you kill is no more palatable. Just my thoughts anyhow.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by delburnedave

X2
I haven't seen the show/hunt in question, but if it was a humane kill, which it sounds like it was, the meat was utilized, which it also sounds like it was, and the hunt was legal and done in a fair chase setting, what's the problem?

Everyone has their own view of what is ethical and humane. And it varies across the board. Personally, for ME (not you), I feel fine with hunting game with large healthy populations and eating it, replacing the beef or whatever I would normally eat (or someone else eating it. Same difference). I'm less comfortable with killing something JUST to put on a wall, or to say I was the first person to ever kill that sort of animal with such and such a weapon. Doesn't hold any glory or attraction for me. That's just me. And this is no comment on the hunt in question. I haven't researched it and know no more than what people have written here.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Moose, I think when you state that certain types of legal/ethical hunting sicken you......how much longer is it before all types of hunting sicken you? Peta will never like what we do and you can bet the doe or buck you kill is no more palatable. Just my thoughts anyhow.

Sheep, I don't think it's an all or nothing affair. A person doesn't have to support every type of hunt undertaken or be a PETA supporter. I bet you have your own limits regarding what is sporting and what isn't.

[Chet]

A few years ago Chuck Adams did a big test on whether Elephants could be killed ethically while using archery tackle.I think he was using a 90 to 100 pound bow shooting something like 900gr arrows.Due to elephants ribs being 3+inchs thick he figured that only 1 out of every 3 shots would slip between the ribs and into the vitals.A fact that he proved when he made a perfect shot behind the shoulder on a large male elephant and had his arrow stop dead as soon as it encountered the ribs.The elephant later had to be tracked and shot with a rifle.

Funny you mention that BrownBear, that was the first thing I thought of when I read this post. I went to a presentation that Mr. Adams did at the Pope and Young convention a couple years ago and he talked quite a bit about his experience with this. Not something I would ever try and it does sound pretty risky but if its legal I'm not going to judge. I'm glad it went well for the Excalibur guy.

Most of the PH's I've talked to (although I haven't talked to very many) say if they could only hunt 1 animal in Africa it would be Elephant. It sounds exciting as heck and also of great importance from a management perspective. I think I would give it a go with the ole' 416 if I had the funds.

Chet

I'm not sure I agree with you Oko and you'll know from my posts on this board that I'm a big supporter of all hunting that is legal and falls within the bounds of fair chase and ensures a clean kill. Certainly some types of hunting might not be my cup of tea but I can't think of one practice or species that falls within the above criteria that sickens me. I think at that point you really need to look deep inside yourself as a hunter and why you hunt. I know for me personally, I didn't choose to be a hunter, it chose me. It's a heritage I have a great respect for and it's not a sport to me but a part of who I am. I guess that why sometimes I come off a bit overzealous in protecting it and those that partake. When a hunter is maligned....a heritage is maligned in my eyes. When it's done by another hunter, that sickens me. But that's just me!

Discussion of certain hunting pratices and ethics is very healthy and good for our heritage but tearing it and its members down is not.

[zenstalker]

thank you sheephunter, you are indeed correct... I work with wild tv and at times there just isn't enough time in the half hour to cover all the bases...the meat is indeed donated to local villages, and the mount given its do respect...cheers and keep up the good work with the outdoor quest.
DR

[aulrich]

The last number I have seen there is something like 1.3 million elephant in Africa. I think alot of sportsmen still carry a distaste for elephant hunting from the ivory trade out of control poching days in the 80's. I would figure most of the general public still would consider elephants an endangered spiecies, even though thing are significantly different than the ivory trade days, especially in countries that mantained a sport hunting industry. And while an elephant hunt does not turn my crank if I won the lotto you bet I'd be spending a month on safari or more (kudu, cape buffalo and bongo would be my top 3).

Though if I did I would be well north of 375 H&H no sharp sticks for me.

[TheClash]

rick ridgeway's book "in the shadow of Kilimanjaro" has a very interesting section on the necessity of culling elephant herds in kenya. hreat read i would recommend to anyone.

while i do not have the desire to hunt for elephant....i am not against helping control populations, give back to communities and increasing tourist revenues.

[Piker]

I recently saw Tom Miranda shoot a polar bear with a bow. The natives dogs had run it into the ground so it could go no farther so Miranda went up to 20 yds and shot it I hope he was real proud of himself. I thought it was degrading and the man had no respect for the animal. I e-mailed words to that effect will mean nothing but I felt better.

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by Piker

I recently saw Tom Miranda shoot a polar bear with a bow. The natives dogs had run it into the ground so it could go no farther so Miranda went up to 20 yds and shot it I hope he was real proud of himself. I thought it was degrading and the man had no respect for the animal. I e-mailed words to that effect will mean nothing but I felt better.

And the animal rights activists find it degrading that you have no respect for deer by shooting them and eating them.

I take it you will never go on a polar bear hunt. I have no problem with that, just don't try to take this hunting opportunity away from me.

[7mm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htimBdLg6es

[goldscud]

Wow 7mm. We are a savage species.
Those spear hunters are courageous fellows

[7mm]

Yeah, not the most humane way to take an animal, but for them sport has nothing to do with it. Its just their way of life.

[BigBuck$]

Originally Posted by 7mm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htimBdLg6es

Pretty crazy video, makes a high powered hunting rifle look pretty ethical to me. An African Safari is something that I've always wanted to try, not only for the hunting but to experience how people live and hunt to survive there would be the true thrill for me.

[fly Guy]

It just does not seem right.

[Supermag]

Just for the same reason I wouldn't shoot a deer with a .22 LR. Sure, if you hit it the right way, you can kill it, but what if you don't? Good on him for threading it through the ribs for the kill, but I wouldn't like my odds. Chances are, for me, the thing would be pi$$ed, and stomp me into a puddle of red goo.

[CNP]

I never saw the show. I only hope that it was produced in very good taste. Something like elephant hunting will pull more strings than deer hunting ever will and that makes it a risky venture for the producer...I'm sure that it wasn't a "Billy and Willy" show....but sometimes you have to wonder why some things end up on tv in the first place. If you don't put the hunt into context, e.g., management of elephant numbers, how many elephant tags are issued, where the meat goes, etc, you'll spend more time answering to that than you would have if you had included it in the show in the first place (hindsight). It's better to be in control of the dialogue rather than recovering from a lack of it. The Excalibur website puts the hunt into context......something that the tv show could have done better. Now if you were in the market say for a crossbow...this could certainly push you towards buying an Excalibur........so, does elephant taste like pork?

So on every episode of every hunting program there should be a blurb about game management...the number of tags issued.......how the meat is going to be used? This hunt is no different than shooting a doe in Peace River.....it is done for management purposes. Does that need to be explained for every hunt or should we give the viewer some credit for being educated? My thoughts are that this is a hunting channel...not the Discovery Channel and any hunter would know that the ethics of good hunting are followed. I wanna see hunting personally and not get bogged down in all the other stuff. This isn't being produced for Peta members or even the non-hunting public. It's a network that broadcasts hunting and fishing 24/7 and the viewer should understand the basics of hunting if he or she is tuning in. Maybe I'm wrong but that would make sense to me. Why do we waste so much time trying to justify hunting to those that don't want it justified?

This segment was 7-8 minutes long and had to capture all that happened in a 10 day hunt. The primary purpose of television is to entertain and the adventure is the entertainment. In a magazine or book there is lots of ti,me to educate but not in the fast-paced medium of television. You have to hope the viewer has some comprehnsion of the subject matter on a specialized network like Wild TV.

[BrownBear416]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

So on every episode of every hunting program there should be a blurb about game management...the number of tags issued.......how the meat is going to be used? This hunt is no different than shooting a doe in Peace River.....it is done for management purposes. Does that need to be explained for every hunt or should we give the viewer some credit for being educated? My thoughts are that this is a hunting channel...not the Discovery Channel and any hunter would know that the ethics of good hunting are followed. I wanna see hunting personally and not get bogged down in all the other stuff. This isn't being produced for Peta members or even the non-hunting public. It's a network that broadcasts hunting and fishing 24/7 and the viewer should understand the basics of hunting if he or she is tuning in. Maybe I'm wrong but that would make sense to me. Why do we waste so much time trying to justify hunting to those that don't want it justified?

Could not agree with you more sheep,i dont think we should have to justify it.

My original question is the same one that i am still pondering.Is the ethics of good hunting being followed using a crossbow to try to kill an animal that is built like an armoured truck?Clean kill or not.

This is what a shooter is dealing with.