Nurses to get laid off.

[DiabeticKripple]

I think a lot of people in the province are pointing their fingers at JK when they should be pointed them at AHS and the unions.

JK actually followed his promise and increased the health care budget this year.

If the unions would take even a 2% pay decrease, I’m sure these jobs could be saved.

There are over 100,000 AHS employees in AB. This is 0.005% of the workforce.

[raab]

Originally Posted by lionel

Hit the bricks with you’re religious BS. The less religion in this world the better. We’re all in this together and religion only spreads hate and division.

I think you may want to look at what happens in atheist countries. They’ve been led by stellar men such as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

[HVA7mm]

If there's something that healthcare loves, universal or private, it's ADMINISTRATION. I stumbled across this awhile ago, but it kind of stuck with me.

I understand that this quip is talking about the US healthcare system, but there are many parallels with the Canadian healthcare system. This was published in 2017 using data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the National Center for Health Statistics, and the United States Census Bureau's Current Population Survey

"The number of physicians in the United States grew 150 percent between 1975 and 2010, roughly in keeping with population growth, while the number of healthcare administrators increased 3,200 percent for the same time period."

I worked in and around the UofA hospital from 2002-2012. During this time frame I was constantly left shaking my head at the number of patient care wards that were shut down to create administration space. In the same time frame they also bought and filled up a fair bit of the two towers at Seventh Street Plaza and other buildings around the city. This of course was done by Capital Health, but AHS certainly did nothing at all to curb the growth of administration.

I do feel that it's unfair to make a blanket statement of front line union staff being the biggest problem. That being said, I know many RN's (members of the UNA) that were/are being shuffled into admin positions instead of being on the front lines.

[CritterCommander]

Fellows, don't lose sight of the fact that our public health care system was created in 1968 or so, and that every single dollar that has flowed into it since that time has come out of someone's back pocket. When times were good this meant spending went to the moon, and if health care spending has ever been reduced it has been short lived and followed by massive increases because it's popular and you all know the politicians only want to be re-elected, that is their job number one. Yes you have all paid and dearly. This isn't unique to Alberta, it's Canada wide. The big picture has been lost in the shuffle. Many Times.

To think that a system conceived in 1968 can't be improved upon and that efficencies can't be found is nothing more than a joke. For front line workers to take the hit for the failures of the system, well I can't say I agree with that, but unfortunately it's going to take a lot more significant cuts before people open their eyes collectively that the machine is broken, and needs a big time overhaul. What is truely disappointing is that the health care system has been studied to death and many many truely valid findings and recommendations have been made to improve the system but as soon as the politicians see they might **** someone off then it's a no go. Game over.

As others have said on here, enjoy the decline, because as our fearless leaders chase UN seats and other international perks, the rank and file, which we all are, will only continue to suffer.

[elkhunter11]

79,000 more public employees hired in Alberta, in the last four years. I guess the government decided that some had to go to cut costs.

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...an-46-000.html

[NCC]

Originally Posted by expedition

Heh trump . Healthcare should not be run as a business or we will end up like the US. Kenney is a crook . We all get a punch in the gut while corporations got a huge gift . If I have to get a punch in the gut so should the corporations! Our population is growing so should our healthcare . It's a race to the bottom !

What’s so bad about ending up like the US?

~50% of the provincial budget goes towards health care. I pay ~50% of my wages to taxes, so 25% of what I earn goes towards health care. For that, I could buy insurance which would provide me with the best health care in the world. I certainly wouldn’t have to wait 5 months to see a specialist.

[expedition]

Originally Posted by NCC

What’s so bad about ending up like the US?

~50% of the provincial budget goes towards health care. I pay ~50% of my wages to taxes, so 25% of what I earn goes towards health care. For that, I could buy insurance which would provide me with the best health care in the world. I certainly wouldn’t have to wait 5 months to see a specialist.

What would you guess insurance cost in the US?

[3blade]

Originally Posted by NCC

What’s so bad about ending up like the US?

~50% of the provincial budget goes towards health care. I pay ~50% of my wages to taxes, so 25% of what I earn goes towards health care. For that, I could buy insurance which would provide me with the best health care in the world. I certainly wouldn’t have to wait 5 months to see a specialist.

Hahahahahaha you don’t have the slightest idea what care costs. Especially in a smaller population in a crappy climate. Doctors care about money not whitetail hunting. Triple what the docs make in the US, as a start, just to attract anyone here. Not the best talent. Add in an entire insurance industry (because that’s worked well for vehicles right) of thieving CEOs and sales people. “Cost efficient” 3rd world trained workers who bribed someone to sign an RN certificate - “blod peasur...ooohh...wat dat?”

This isn’t the US. Hell that private hip and knee clinic in Calgary couldn’t keep operating and you think a hospital could?!

what if you’re too old for insurance - nope, no coverage, too bad, private industry. Go die in a corner, but not that corner, that’s private property. How about if you don’t get treatment preapproved, say you are unconscious due to a car accident, they don’t pay. you could sell your house and not cover the bills for the first week.

The pure ignorance of anyone advocating American healthcare is mind blowing.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by NCC

What’s so bad about ending up like the US?

From Wikipedia, but nonetheless:



The United States spends much more money on healthcare than Canada, on both a per-capita basis and as a percentage of GDP. In 2006, per-capita spending for health care in Canada was US$3,678; in the U.S., US$6,714. The U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP on healthcare in that year; Canada spent 10.0%. In 2006, 70% of healthcare spending in Canada was financed by government, versus 46% in the United States. Total government spending per capita in the U.S. on healthcare was 23% higher than Canadian government spending, and U.S. government expenditure on healthcare was just under 83% of total Canadian spending (public and private) though these statistics don't take into account population differences.

Keep in mind that these numbers do not take private spending in the US into account. Some of you guys don’t exactly know what they are taking about, or so it seems.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by fishnguy

From Wikipedia, but nonetheless:



The United States spends much more money on healthcare than Canada, on both a per-capita basis and as a percentage of GDP. In 2006, per-capita spending for health care in Canada was US$3,678; in the U.S., US$6,714. The U.S. spent 15.3% of GDP on healthcare in that year; Canada spent 10.0%. In 2006, 70% of healthcare spending in Canada was financed by government, versus 46% in the United States. Total government spending per capita in the U.S. on healthcare was 23% higher than Canadian government spending, and U.S. government expenditure on healthcare was just under 83% of total Canadian spending (public and private) though these statistics don't take into account population differences.

Keep in mind that these numbers do not take private spending in the US into account. Some of you guys don’t exactly know what they are taking about, or so it seems.

True until you dig a bit deeper into the numbers. They spend more because there GDP is more.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blog...-care-spending

[Dynamic]

I’m always blown away when people can be shown statistics and data cited from many reputable sources and STILL not believe it. A private US style healthcare system will not save you money and it will not improve outcomes for the middle class. The mental gymnastics people to not sway from their position is pretty impressive given how accessible information is these days.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I’m always blown away when people can be shown statistics and data cited from many reputable sources and STILL not believe it. A private US style healthcare system will not save you money and it will not improve outcomes for the middle class. The mental gymnastics people to not sway from their position is pretty impressive given how accessible information is these days.

Wikipedia is reputable now? Multiple ways to spin statistics and data to support your point of view. Isn’t that why global warming was changed to climate change?

[raab]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

I’m always blown away when people can be shown statistics and data cited from many reputable sources and STILL not believe it. A private US style healthcare system will not save you money and it will not improve outcomes for the middle class. The mental gymnastics people to not sway from their position is pretty impressive given how accessible information is these days.

Why do we have to be like the US? Why not try and model after the best systems in the world like Switzerland, or the UK. Same thing should be done with schooling. Why are we not implementing the best?

[wmd]

WOW hes is a idiot. If he keeps this up he wont win another election he is destroying the heath care and education.

[expedition]

In Canada per capita cost is 4500 in the US Medicare and medicaid ( healthcare for the very poor and seniors ) costs about 5000 per capita. Then for a single guy in his 30s ( prime ) monthly insurance costs are 430 a month or 4600 a year . 2000 deductible and some test and such are only partially covered . On average each US citizen pays 12 000 a year . Someone stated its GDP. I thought out GDP is 40 000 per capita and the US was 46 000 per capita. Any one complaining about our healthcare can tuck their saving of 8 000 a year and go to the US!

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by raab

Why do we have to be like the US? Why not try and model after the best systems in the world like Switzerland, or the UK. Same thing should be done with schooling. Why are we not implementing the best?

Why not don’t try to model this country after any other? Why not take the best out of what others do, apply the good ideas to our unique situation and call it ‘the canadian way’. Oh, wait, I think competition creates the best outcomes, but somebody else might think that a big government is the answer to all our problems.
Complicated business...

BTW: the UK medical system is a disaster.

[expedition]

Can't help but feel it's a continuation of klien . Klien made out of pocket care available now the goal is to make public health care harder to access then we will have to access private .

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by expedition

In Canada per capita cost is 4500 in the US Medicare and medicaid ( healthcare for the very poor and seniors ) costs about 5000 per capita. Then for a single guy in his 30s ( prime ) monthly insurance costs are 430 a month or 4600 a year . 2000 deductible and some test and such are only partially covered . On average each US citizen pays 12 000 a year . Someone stated its GDP. I thought out GDP is 40 000 per capita and the US was 46 000 per capita. Any one complaining about our healthcare can tuck their saving of 8 000 a year and go to the US!

Could you point to where did you get those numbers, please? Could you, at the same time dig into how much of our money goes towards the medical care?
Appreciate the effort!

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Could you point to where did you get those numbers, please? Could you, at the same time dig into how much of our money goes towards the medical care?
Appreciate the effort!

Quote from multiple sources koch brothers paid for a study . Tyt have quoted similar. Secular talk . Canadian tax payer association. MSNBC. Bernie Sanders. As far as digging into how much we spend it was in the first sentence previous post . 4500 per capita total covers every one .

[expedition]

Keep in mind 500 000 people declare bankruptcy due to medical costs when something serious happens . Washington post quote .

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by expedition

Keep in mind 500 000 people declare bankruptcy due to medical costs when something serious happens . Washington post quote .

Well, see, where we get our information from can be a problem.

First off, a per family contribution to the medical care would be more relevant than a per capita one. Canada is at $12,935 (Frasier institute), US is at 14,016 (Bloomberg).
Second, let’s look at the level of care received; wait times, etc.
Third, let’s not forget that all that an American family spends for medical care is tax deductible.

My brother’s family, in AZ, has a really comprehensive plan for $1,400/month. Family of four. At the same time, between two personal taxes and his company (6 trucks on the road), they pay less taxes than I pay here in personal taxes alone.

So I think we have to look at the whole picture and draw the right conclusions.

PS. Friendly advice, if I may, your news sourcing outlets are bad for the health.

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by expedition

Keep in mind 500 000 people declare bankruptcy due to medical costs when something serious happens . Washington post quote .

In Canada, according to Bankruptcy-canada.com, the fourth cause of insolvency is illness or medical issues. Wait, what?? Don’t we have free health care?!

[Bergerboy]

JK is doing what Ralph Klein did when Alberta was in trouble. It worked then, why cant it work now?

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

In Canada, according to Bankruptcy-canada.com, the fourth cause of insolvency is illness or medical issues. Wait, what?? Don’t we have free health care?!

Medical issues causing unemployment , the us study claims health care costs as the major cause of bankruptcy.

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

True until you dig a bit deeper into the numbers. They spend more because there GDP is more.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blog...-care-spending

That’s, what you called in another post, spinning statistics. The author compares health care spending per capita with gdp per capita and tries to explain how the average American is better off. That’s a hell of a spin. Take a stat that represents individuals’ earnings more realistically, such as median incomes, for example, which are almost identical in the States and Canada, and the picture we would find to be quite different from his analysis. In 2011 numbers, median income in Canada was $46,200 and $48,200 in US. Deduct public health spending per capita and optional private health insurance premiums ($10,000 per annum, ball park?) and things now seem to be quite different, don’t they? Keep in mind that premiums at that level probably (someone correct me if I am wrong, I don’t feel like looking it up) have quite a deductible too, where you will still have to pay for all your blood work, X-Rays, MRIs, etc out of your pocket. Add pre-existing conditions and such and the system sounds like hell rather than paradise all of a sudden. An average Canadian has quite a bit more in their pocket than an average American after the health spending is deducted from their income. Don’t be fooled so easily. We are better off than they are and so is everyone else in the developed world. Private health care like they have in the Land of the Free is not so great, quite the opposite.

Edit: the numbers for median incomes were taken from Centre for Economic Development, who pulled them out of the World Bank database. Link: https://www.cgdev.org/blog/world-ban...load-available. You can read there why median measure is better than the average the dude used in his “analysis”.

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Well, see, where we get our information from can be a problem.

First off, a per family contribution to the medical care would be more relevant than a per capita one. Canada is at $12,935 (Frasier institute), US is at 14,016 (Bloomberg).
Second, let’s look at the level of care received; wait times, etc.
Third, let’s not forget that all that an American family spends for medical care is tax deductible.

My brother’s family, in AZ, has a really comprehensive plan for $1,400/month. Family of four. At the same time, between two personal taxes and his company (6 trucks on the road), they pay less taxes than I pay here in personal taxes alone.

So I think we have to look at the whole picture and draw the right conclusions.

PS. Friendly advice, if I may, your news sourcing outlets are bad for the health.

Your facts are wrong . The sources I have mirror the costs reflected in the graph shown above . My sources are multiple. As far as your brother in AK you can get cheaper plans for sure . Higher deductible lower premiums .

[RO CC]

Originally Posted by expedition

Your facts are wrong . The sources I have mirror the costs reflected in the graph shown . My sources are multiple. As far as your brother in AK you can get cheaper plans for sure . Higher deductible lower premiums .

I’m afraid we speak different languages...
Edit: what is wrong in ‘my’ facts, if you have the time?

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

I think a lot of people in the province are pointing their fingers at JK when they should be pointed them at AHS and the unions.

JK actually followed his promise and increased the health care budget this year.

If the unions would take even a 2% pay decrease, I’m sure these jobs could be saved.

There are over 100,000 AHS employees in AB. This is 0.005% of the workforce.

This is how I understand it as well. JK is increasing healthcare spending, just reducing the number to the AHS and increasing to contract services. AHS is a bloated whale that is financially inefficient.

[expedition]

Originally Posted by RO CC

I’m afraid we speak different languages...

I speaking math

You're speaking emotional

Ps very easy to immigrate to the US !

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by RO CC

Well, see, where we get our information from can be a problem.

First off, a per family contribution to the medical care would be more relevant than a per capita one. Canada is at $12,935 (Frasier institute), US is at 14,016 (Bloomberg).
Second, let’s look at the level of care received; wait times, etc.
Third, let’s not forget that all that an American family spends for medical care is tax deductible.

My brother’s family, in AZ, has a really comprehensive plan for $1,400/month. Family of four. At the same time, between two personal taxes and his company (6 trucks on the road), they pay less taxes than I pay here in personal taxes alone.

So I think we have to look at the whole picture and draw the right conclusions.

PS. Friendly advice, if I may, your news sourcing outlets are bad for the health.

I am not going to check the numbers you provided, but, even if you take your family example, in Canada a “family” pays $12,935; in the Arizona they spend $30,816 ($1,400 x 12 + $14,016). These are simply the numbers you provided. I don’t know if they true, I didn’t check.

They also have wait times in the USA. My guess is they differ by state, but are probably lower on average than they are in Canada. According to polls, Canadians are more satisfied with the quality of service they receive from medical professionals (I can find a source, if you like).

What we spend on medical care is also tax deductible, not all of it though.